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      10-13-2019, 09:35 PM   #1
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Will changing the tires kill "the magic"?

Esteemed colleagues,

I come to you for your advice and your opinions - and for laughs. In another thread, a poster mentioned that he'd played around with different wheel and tire sizes on his F80, got better performance and traction, but that it came at a cost, and in some sense killed some of "the magic" and the playfulness that was originally there on the stock car.

I'm getting close to needing to replace my tires - at 20k miles now and tread is getting pretty worn down. I was planning on going from the stock MPSS 245/35/19 fronts and 265/35/19 rears to PS4S 265/30/19 fronts and 295/30/19 rears. The rationale was to get better traction and hence higher performance, better stopping distance, etc., etc.

However, after seeing that post about losing some of "the magic" and playfulness, I'm having serious second thoughts, and might just stick with OEM everything.

Was hoping that you all might have some insights and thoughts. Thank you all in advance!

P.S. The M2C is my DD and fun weekend car for driving in the canyons. So, top priority for me is fun and playfulness, not performance and track time. My original thinking was that wider tires would be all gain / no cost. Please do educate me if that thinking is wrong!
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      10-13-2019, 10:16 PM   #2
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I share your sentiment. I'm wondering how much the car will change when it turns winter and I slap on new wheels/tires.
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      10-13-2019, 10:51 PM   #3
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If you don't live your life a quarter mile at a time, 295s rears is an overkill, not to mention prohibitory expensive.

I recently had a M340i with 255s of the latest Michelin 4S and the same electronic torque-vectoring LSD as the M2, which it allowed the vehicle to glide around sharp bends, like a lizard on ice. The vehicle was airborne at times but once it hit ground, it held its own and never once scrambled for traction.

Tire technology has come a long way where size doesn't matter as much as once did, it's more of aesthetics than actual practicality.

I suggest you get yourself some decent rubbers, keep the stability in MDM mode and just pour it strait. You'll get by just fine on stock 265s, save a buck in the process and not upset the "magic" of the chassis, as the M gods intended.
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      10-13-2019, 10:56 PM   #4
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Try these in 265s, I believe they'll satisfy your demands:


https://www.michelinman.com/summer/pilot-sport-4s.html
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      10-14-2019, 12:31 AM   #5
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If you go with wider tires you want to keep the same F/R ratio to maintain the cars handling characteristics. For example, if stock is 245 F and 265 R you'll want to have the same ratio with wider aftermarket tires such as 265 F and 285 R.

Great, you're thinking this is doable... not so fast, Cochise. We're just getting started.

Go with a 265/30/19 up front and the overall diameter is 12mm less or 6mm less sidewall. Go with a 265/35/19 and its diameter is 14mm or 7mm taller sidewall. Both sizes mess with your spedo and ride height. But, the taller diameter tire can also induce rubbing not to mention it weighs more and needs more torque to rotate its mass. That said you could run the same setup as the F80/2 and should be OK. That would be a 255/35/19 F and 275/35/19 R. The front and rears would both come in at 7mm taller or 3.5mm taller sidewall so they'd not only be even, but also within tolerances.

Here's an awesome wheel and tire calc.

When installing wider tires you'll also need to take into account wheel poke and/or potential rubbing, if any. In my experience wider tires tend to improve the ride quality, although they are more prone to tramlining.

Here's an awesome video that I think will help clarify the pros/cons of wider tires and making sure you get the ratio right.

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      10-14-2019, 01:18 AM   #6
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Great post above. One minor nitpick, speedo pickup is derived from the output shaft of the gearbox hence only affected by change in rolling diameter of the rear tyres. Changing fronts won’t effect the speedo reading.
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      10-14-2019, 03:11 AM   #7
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I went up to 255/275 (M3/4) sizes. Added that little bit more grip while still keeping the character of the car.
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      10-14-2019, 05:20 AM   #8
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Whoops, answered your same question in another thread just now: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=75
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      10-14-2019, 12:25 PM   #9
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The question is do you like sliding around and pulling off little power slides in corners? It will be a bit more difficult to get it smooth with more and stickier rear rubber.
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      10-14-2019, 12:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
Great post above. One minor nitpick, speedo pickup is derived from the output shaft of the gearbox hence only affected by change in rolling diameter of the rear tyres. Changing fronts won’t effect the speedo reading.
Not true. Speedo velocity these days is based on non driven wheels or average of all 4 wheel speed senosors transformed to the center of rear axle.
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      10-14-2019, 01:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
The question is do you like sliding around and pulling off little power slides in corners? It will be a bit more difficult to get it smooth with more and stickier rear rubber.
This is what I was thinking too. If what's magical to you is being able to spin the tires and get sideways, then don't go for wider and stickier rubber. But if your magic is fast acceleration and grip, then do.

For me, I much rather have a car that grips. If I wanna get sideways, I can wait for colder and wetter weather.
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      10-14-2019, 09:36 PM   #12
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I can’t speak to the M2c as I only just got it, but I’d still echo others here who questioned what you like about the car. If it’s staying tight and controlled, wider tires (within reason) will make the car more fun. If you enjoy sliding and that element of danger, stick to the oem setup.

In my time with my z I went from oem summer tires (fine but understeery) to “high performance” all seasons (loud, slightly sloppy, but very predictable breakaway characteristics) to another set of “high performance” all-seasons with +20mm up front (goodbye understeer!) every change was very noticeable at the or around the limits.

but remember, if you plan on owning the car for a while you’ll replace them again, so it’s not a very permanent mod. It could be worth a little experimenting.
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      10-14-2019, 10:07 PM   #13
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When it is time, I am probably going to go with PS 4S 255/19 and 275/19, although I suspect I won't notice too much difference in my daily drive...
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      10-14-2019, 10:52 PM   #14
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My plan is to simply go with ps4s tires and go with the m3/m4 size. I want a bit more grip but at the same time enjoy the playfulness of the car and chassis.
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      10-15-2019, 10:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
My plan is to simply go with ps4s tires and go with the m3/m4 size. I want a bit more grip but at the same time enjoy the playfulness of the car and chassis.
I'm thinking the same, going with PS4S 255/275 35. I expect quite a bit more grip not because of the bigger size but because of the PS4S vs MPSS. I do enjoy a little slip going out of the turns in the twisties. I'm mostly concerned about the breakaway behavior of the MPS4S. I've read that breakaway with that tire isn't quite as smooth. However I need the extra grip to put the power down. It's too bad we can't try them out first 😁.
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      10-15-2019, 02:16 PM   #16
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For a daily driven car I would stick to factory size, just because oversteer is so easily accessible on the M2.

But for the track I'd do 255/275 combo, or even 265/285 to maximize grip. I like to pursue lap times, and a hooked up car is a faster car.

Of course this means 2 sets of rims and tires. This is what I did on my previous car. And I will on my next car. I'm only holding on to the M2 for 3 years while on assignment in Germany so unfortunately can't do that now.
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      10-15-2019, 02:34 PM   #17
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I moved one size up to M3/M4 tires sizes because I found a used set of 437Ms with some rubber left. Car has plenty of character, but I've never really driven it with the stock sizes so it's not like I can give you a good comparison.

Based on how easy it is to break traction I think it could use more width for the track. However, since mine's a DD and I don't plan to go to the track at all, I'm looking forward to having less traction once my stock tires are back on.
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      10-15-2019, 09:31 PM   #18
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You guys are awesome! Thank you all so much for all the info and insights.

Based on all this, I think I'm gonna go with PS4S in stock size: 245/35/19 front and 265/35/19 rear. Next tire change after this one will be M3/4 size just to change things up.

Oh, by the way, I also discovered that the lowest pricing seems to be Costco of all places! I'm gonna get me some tires AND turkey pesto sandwich while I'm at it!
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      10-15-2019, 10:14 PM   #19
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Thanks for the Costco tip. I wouldn't have found that one.
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      10-15-2019, 10:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Thanks for the Costco tip. I wouldn't have found that one.
Agree....turkey pesto sounds great right now!
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      10-15-2019, 10:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
You guys are awesome! Thank you all so much for all the info and insights.

Based on all this, I think I'm gonna go with PS4S in stock size: 245/35/19 front and 265/35/19 rear. Next tire change after this one will be M3/4 size just to change things up.

Oh, by the way, I also discovered that the lowest pricing seems to be Costco of all places! I'm gonna get me some tires AND turkey pesto sandwich while I'm at it!
Surprised you're not going straight to the M3/4 tire size and then cutting off some Audi's and racing a few BRZ's. Any who, don't forget to grab some microfibers and fill up with some of that sweet Costco top tier gasoline nectar while you're there.
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      10-17-2019, 09:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
You guys are awesome! Thank you all so much for all the info and insights.

Based on all this, I think I'm gonna go with PS4S in stock size: 245/35/19 front and 265/35/19 rear. Next tire change after this one will be M3/4 size just to change things up.

Oh, by the way, I also discovered that the lowest pricing seems to be Costco of all places! I'm gonna get me some tires AND turkey pesto sandwich while I'm at it!
Costco wouldn't sell me 255/275 because it's not OEM size it something. Had to go elsewhere.
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