[F87Tomei]

Hello,

Was wondering if anyone upgraded their OG M2 to a M2C. Currently tracking my 17 M2 every month in the SoCal area and I am slowly finding the limitations of the car. The biggest one is the overheating issues with IATs, coolant and oil temps.

Is it really worth to justify to upgrade to a M2C for that reason or are there any workarounds with the N55?

Thank you very much and happy new year!

[ThreeStripes]

I haven’t upgraded to a M2C (yet) but I’m in the same boat as you. The decision to upgrade depends on the ultimate goal in mind. Upgrading cooling only takes you so far as documented by ZM2 but arguably it’s pretty damn far.

While there isn’t limitless headroom to be found with cooling upgrades, there are things you can do so the question is simply do your goals fit within what’s possible with upgrades.

If your goals for the car take you beyond what can be supported, then it’s worth making the switch.

In your region, that may only be ~415whp but a properly setup M2 with that power is a plenty quick track tool. It won’t be the 6-700whp monster you see at Super Lap Battle but it will be plenty potent.

TLDR

If you want to track more than say 450whp in real high temps then an S55 F87 is the move. If 400-450whp is enough, the OG will serve you well if you throw the full list of cooling upgrades at it.

Personally, I don’t need more cooling right now, I need more coaching and more seat time.

[M1500Z]

I had a similar question a while ago and made a thread that generated some good responses that may help you (updates on the last page) and the TL;DR is did make the change from an '18 to a '21 Comp. I did not track my '18 significantly so my experience is severely limited there.

Objectively the S55 is a better motor—more power, higher rev limit, and cooling isn't a limitation stock. I have done 3 days at COTA in the middle of the TX summer in 104º+ ambient temps and the car never skipped a beat—vmax was down to 144 from 148. I believe OG Shark had pretty nifty N55 car with S55 cooling, but outside of that, I'm not sure if people have really conquered the N55 cars' issues of pulling timing on hot days or longer stints.

The broader question may be around the costs of changing and working around the challenges of the Comp's larger brakes which cannot fit 18s stock, and any mods you'll take a hit on because they can't transfer over to the S55.

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

I haven’t upgraded to a M2C (yet) but I’m in the same boat as you. The decision to upgrade depends on the ultimate goal in mind. Upgrading cooling only takes you so far as documented by ZM2 but arguably it’s pretty damn far.

While there isn’t limitless headroom to be found with cooling upgrades, there are things you can do so the question is simply do your goals fit within what’s possible with upgrades.

If your goals for the car take you beyond what can be supported, then it’s worth making the switch.

In your region, that may only be ~415whp but a properly setup M2 with that power is a plenty quick track tool. It won’t be the 6-700whp monster you see at Super Lap Battle but it will be plenty potent.

TLDR

If you want to track more than say 450whp in real high temps the an S55 F87 is the move. If 400-450whp is enough, the OG will serve you well if you throw the full list of cooling upgrades at it.

Personally, I don’t need more cooling right now, I need more coaching and more seat time.

I have done all the oil coolers, radiators, and intercooler upgrades I could possible do to the car, but during the hot summer days in the desert it lacks.

The power of the car is phenomenal. It’s fast and I honestly don’t think I need more power, but at the same time it’s the fastest car I’ve had for the track so a FBO N55 M2 is my current threshold.

I’m planning to sign up for Bimmer challenge next year as well as global time attack at button willow and I want a car to be competitive.

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I had a similar question a while ago and made a thread that generated some good responses that may help you (updates on the last page) and the TL;DR is did make the change from an '18 to a '21 Comp. I did not track my '18 significantly so my experience is severely limited there.

Objectively the S55 is a better motor—more power, higher rev limit, and cooling isn't a limitation stock. I have done 3 days at COTA in the middle of the TX summer in 104º+ ambient temps and the car never skipped a beat—vmax was down to 144 from 148. I believe OG Shark had pretty nifty N55 car with S55 cooling, but outside of that, I'm not sure if people have really conquered the N55 cars' issues of pulling timing on hot days or longer stints.

The broader question may be around the costs of changing and working around the challenges of the Comp's larger brakes which cannot fit 18s stock, and any mods you'll take a hit on because they can't transfer over to the S55.

I have put thousands of dollars into modifications for my m2 and that was a big worry of mine as how much of the parts are interchangeable. I don’t want to lose a boat load of money. I’ve been looking deeper into the cooling of the N55 like getting a smaller intercooler to relieve some surface area for my radiator and running a WMI and even trying to run a liquid to air intercooler.

That’s pretty awesome the car did that well in cota. Funny thing is I’ll be moving to Austin in 2025 for work purposes.

Thank you very much for linking your thread and I will definitely be doing my research through there.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by F87Tomei

I’m planning to sign up for Bimmer challenge next year as well as global time attack at button willow and I want a car to be competitive.

Put your car back to stock and move to a M2C. This is S55 territory.

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Put your car back to stock and move to a M2C. This is S55 territory.

Thank you for your input my man

[allinon72]

By all means move to the M2C, just know that if you’re tracking that much, you’re just going to find the limitation of the S55 and you’ll be back to modifying. Make sure that’s worth it to you.

[OG Shark]

If you want to move past the limits of the OG’s cooling that you are finding right now I would definitely consider the move to the comp. The OG is a lovely car but the ceiling is definitely lower and much much harder to try to break through than the comp. And with moving to another hot climate (also adding humidity to the mix) that will not get any better here. And if you plan to compete I do not see a case where an OG can out pace a comp no matter how the rules are set up. If you can live with the power being pulled though then the OG is a pure joy to drive with how nimble and balanced it is. And on tracks that are not power sensitive it can absolutely shine. Even at that though if planning to compete I would still strongly consider getting into an S55. Being able to add power and not get punished even more in heat management goes a long ways.

Really just comes down to what you ultimately want to do with the car.

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

If you want to move past the limits of the OG’s cooling that you are finding right now I would definitely consider the move to the comp. The OG is a lovely car but the ceiling is definitely lower and much much harder to try to break through than the comp. And with moving to another hot climate (also adding humidity to the mix) that will not get any better here. And if you plan to compete I do not see a case where an OG can out pace a comp no matter how the rules are set up. If you can live with the power being pulled though then the OG is a pure joy to drive with how nimble and balanced it is. And on tracks that are not power sensitive it can absolutely shine. Even at that though if planning to compete I would still strongly consider getting into an S55. Being able to add power and not get punished even more in heat management goes a long ways.

Really just comes down to what you ultimately want to do with the car.

Yea that’s exactly how I am feeling, the car feels absolutely amazing to drive right now with the current set up, but I’ve noticed i just can’t keep up with the the pace of not only the M2C, but the F8X chassis with the s55. I’m sure it’ll be worse when I move to a hotter climate as well.

Thank you very much for the input.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by F87Tomei

Yea that’s exactly how I am feeling, the car feels absolutely amazing to drive right now with the current set up, but I’ve noticed i just can’t keep up with the the pace of not only the M2C, but the F8X chassis with the s55. I’m sure it’ll be worse when I move to a hotter climate as well.

Thank you very much for the input.

Straight line it's going to be very hard to keep up with the S55 for sure. And adding power to the N55 can really be a double edged sword on the track. At COTA in the warmer months I would see power start getting pulled on the outlap... Had a friend/customer there last month in much friendlier conditions that was having power pulled after a lap our two. Note COTA is an extreme though as it is very demanding on temps with that high a percentage of time spent at WOT/lap.

To show you some reference - this video is from some lead/follow we were able to do. I am the hockenheim silver M2C that is the lead car and the footage coming from the OG. The OG is mildly modded for a bit more power (probably close to the M2C stock), brakes, upgraded cooling, Ohlins RT, good track alignment and on Falken RT 6xx (I believe 660s). My M2C at the time was completely stock except for brakes (I will not track any car with decent pace at COTA on oem setups). Full weight besides the brake deduct, stock MP4S, stock alignment... and at minimum 400lbs of driver and passenger in that video. You can see throughout the video he would catch me through the corners while I would always gain in the straights. At 5:00 minutes in see a very good example where we both get decent jumps into the longest straight. You can also get a good view of the oem suspension in action throughout the video.

That weekend for me was to set a baseline with the M2C before we started upgrading (including our suspension development). My best was a 2:36.38 with an 84* ambient including a 144.6 vmax on the back straight. The OG that weekend barely dipped into the 2:35s with barely hitting 140 as his highest vmax on the weekend. Bone stock M2C (with brakes) sporting MP4S & oem alignment vs nicely prepped and well driven OG. Put a similar setup on the comp and I would be sub 2:30. In the video you have comparable HP levels between the cars but the OG just gets brutally punished by heat and cannot utilize it as effectively as the comp. In competition (especially one that is HP/Weight classed) the OG just has such a large inherent deficit from the get go that is very hard to make up.

Flex fuel, tuning, bit of cooling (wagner tmic), good suspension, better tires & alignment - cut 14sec off that time in the M2C (also more favorable track conditions too). And if had spent some time at that build level very confident could have cut that by at least 1sec. That would absolutely crush a similarly equipped OG.

Also note that a good suspension on a comp transforms the car - so much better in every facet. Certainly same with an OG but the point being that a well suspensioned (new word??) comp is pretty sublime on the track too. The balance is still better in the OG but with a well setup comp you now have a extremely well handling car that has very high power potential and the ability to use it efficiently.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by F87Tomei

I’m planning to sign up for Bimmer challenge next year as well as global time attack at button willow and I want a car to be competitive.

Have you looked at a pre-LCI F82? They're very cheap (relatively speaking) and is a better overall platform for a track car (more power stock, can fit wider tires, more stable wheel base, etc.). If TA is the main goal, I'd look there.

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Straight line it's going to be very hard to keep up with the S55 for sure. And adding power to the N55 can really be a double edged sword on the track. At COTA in the warmer months I would see power start getting pulled on the outlap... Had a friend/customer there last month in much friendlier conditions that was having power pulled after a lap our two. Note COTA is an extreme though as it is very demanding on temps with that high a percentage of time spent at WOT/lap.

To show you some reference - this video is from some lead/follow we were able to do. I am the hockenheim silver M2C that is the lead car and the footage coming from the OG. The OG is mildly modded for a bit more power (probably close to the M2C stock), brakes, upgraded cooling, Ohlins RT, good track alignment and on Falken RT 6xx (I believe 660s). My M2C at the time was completely stock except for brakes (I will not track any car with decent pace at COTA on oem setups). Full weight besides the brake deduct, stock MP4S, stock alignment... and at minimum 400lbs of driver and passenger in that video. You can see throughout the video he would catch me through the corners while I would always gain in the straights. At 5:00 minutes in see a very good example where we both get decent jumps into the longest straight. You can also get a good view of the oem suspension in action throughout the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK8bxjYOOLg

That weekend for me was to set a baseline with the M2C before we started upgrading (including our suspension development). My best was [...]

Yea I’m currently experienecing that double edged sword at the moment and that was primarily the main reason for creating this thread. I’m getting pulled timings in even 60 degree ambient temperatures in WSIR by my 3rd lap of the 1st session and it’ll only get worse when I move to Austin. I have very similar mods to the OG M2 in that footage except for aero so that footage alone already justified my what i plan to do.
Thanks for sharing and hopefully when I move out there I could get a ride along in your introns! Been really curious about those recently.

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Have you looked at a pre-LCI F82? They're very cheap (relatively speaking) and is a better overall platform for a track car (more power stock, can fit wider tires, more stable wheel base, etc.). If TA is the main goal, I'd look there.

Yea I had an F80 before and they were cool, but I just prefer the F87 with how they look and how they feel. It is definitely an option though, so thank you sir for your reply.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by F87Tomei

Yea I had an F80 before and they were cool, but I just prefer the F87 with how they look and how they feel. It is definitely an option though, so thank you sir for your reply.

For sure, no argument on feel - shorter wheel base is a lot of fun. I'm planning on doing a couple BC events next year so I'm sure I'll see you out there

[F87Tomei]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

For sure, no argument on feel - shorter wheel base is a lot of fun. I'm planning on doing a couple BC events next year so I'm sure I'll see you out there

Oh sweet I’ll make sure to look out for you my man!

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by F87Tomei

Yea I’m currently experienecing that double edged sword at the moment and that was primarily the main reason for creating this thread. I’m getting pulled timings in even 60 degree ambient temperatures in WSIR by my 3rd lap of the 1st session and it’ll only get worse when I move to Austin. I have very similar mods to the OG M2 in that footage except for aero so that footage alone already justified my what i plan to do.
Thanks for sharing and hopefully when I move out there I could get a ride along in your introns! Been really curious about those recently.

Yeah that video is definitely a good example of OG vs comp - glad he had his camera on for that. Always welcome to take a ride along - try to have a car at all times setup for just that purpose. Right now would likely be the SLB prepped car so could really get a good idea of what the comps can do while still being fully streetable.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

The OG is mildly modded for a bit more power (probably close to the M2C stock), brakes, upgraded cooling, Ohlins RT, good track alignment and on Falken RT 6xx (I believe 660s). My M2C at the time was completely stock except for brakes.

Your thoughts are always appreciated. However, without dyno figures for both cars on the same day and running the same tires/sizes, it'd be hard to use this video for anything other than a fun watch.

But I agree with your overall assessment; that the OG is right there until loses to the S55 car over 90 mph every time, even if they had the exact same power output. Certainly both have their strengths, but M2C for tracking every time.

[ThreeStripes]

My experience in a FBO S2 91 BM3 tuned OG M2 chasing stock power M2C with great driver mirrors OG Sharks experience. Just a few mph shy on main straights of the M2C.

You don’t need to utilize the scientific method and a dyno to tell you if it’s sunny outside. You just have to get out there and see for yourself.