[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I raised this above. But if you are operating at the limit of the cooling system capacity, a lower t-stat will only buy you a little time. You will just be starting at a slightly lower temp but it doesnt add any cooling capacity.

Agreed. But I found a little more than that. For one, it doesn't appear that the CSF oil cooler does much of anything. For another, it's clearly an oil temp issue and not a coolant issue.

I posted a bit about it in ZM2's thread, but I was searching around and I found something that will hopefully settle this matter.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Agreed. But I found a little more than that. For one, it doesn't appear that the CSF oil cooler does much of anything. For another, it's clearly an oil temp issue and not a coolant issue.

After installing the CSF Oil Cooler and the Mossleman Thermostat, something doesn't appear to be working well - I might say the CSF oil cooler makes it worse. In my track day two days ago, the ambient temps were about 7 degrees cooler, yet I hit a higher oil temp with the two new parts. As seen in this video, I hit 264 degrees (around the 18 min mark in the video). For reference, related parts the car has is: CSF oil cooler, Mossleman oil thermostat, stock turbo, Stage 2 91 octane bootmod3 tune with 93 octane gas, CSF Intercooler, high-flow cat, Zunsport mesh and custom mesh in nostrils in the front. Perhaps it's time to upgrade the upgrade... Thinking about the do88 oil cooler next... Not sure if additional ducting/sealing around the oil cooler would help...venting hood...I have to do something - beside change oil...

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2guru

After installing the CSF Oil Cooler and the Mossleman Thermostat, something doesn't appear to be working well - I might say the CSF oil cooler makes it worse. In my track day two days ago, the ambient temps were about 7 degrees cooler, yet I hit a higher oil temp with the two new parts. As seen in this video, I hit 264 degrees (around the 18 min mark in the video). For reference, related parts the car has is: CSF oil cooler, Mossleman oil thermostat, stock turbo, Stage 2 91 octane bootmod3 tune with 93 octane gas, CSF Intercooler, high-flow cat, Zunsport mesh and custom mesh in nostrils in the front. Perhaps it's time to upgrade the upgrade... Thinking about the do88 oil cooler next... Not sure if additional ducting/sealing around the oil cooler would help...venting hood...I have to do something - beside change oil...

This is terrible - I see you're short shifting as well. Are you running Max Cool? Any radiator upgrades?
The CSF radiator causes higher coolant temps and the oil cooler causes higher oil temps.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

This is terrible - I see you're short shifting as well. Are you running Max Cool? Any radiator upgrades?
The CSF radiator causes higher coolant temps and the oil cooler causes higher oil temps.

I have been meaning to ask you about short shifting but haven't gotten aroudn to it (you've mentioned it a couple times). What do you think the proper shift point should be?

Max Cool.

Stock radiator - why/how does the CSF radiator cause higher coolant temps (relative to stock I assume)? How does CSF oil cooler cause higher oil temps (relative to stock I assume)?

Thanks for your feedback and in advance for your response!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2guru

I have been meaning to ask you about short shifting but haven't gotten aroudn to it (you've mentioned it a couple times). What do you think the proper shift point should be?

Max Cool.

Stock radiator - why/how does the CSF radiator cause higher coolant temps (relative to stock I assume)? How does CSF oil cooler cause higher oil temps (relative to stock I assume)?

Thanks for your feedback and in advance for your response!

Well that honestly depends. I think wherever you are comfortable - but the idea of shifting near redline is to put you near peak power for the next gear - not hugely important on these cars with such massive amounts of torque. I would keep shifting at or around 6000RPM until you have the cooling issues dialed in. The extra 500RPM at this point generates extra heat, so it's not a big issue.

On the CSF radiator, a few people have change to it and immediately experienced higher coolant temps.

The CSF oil cooler was only able to decrease oil temps by 2-3F on a M235i which has a smaller oil cooler than the M2 (13 rows vs 15 for the M2) It's not hard to imagine the CSF being worse in this case. Another data point to consider: I've never heard of the CSF oil cooler helping anyone.

Edit: Just watched a video on the CSF oil cooler being installed on a F3X by Kies. It's 14 rows in the front (so less frontal area than the M2's oil cooler) and additional 4 rows on the back...which means you're trying to cool the back rows with hotter air. No wonder this thing barely works.

[E90convert]

Curious - what engine oil is everyone using? My S2000 oil temperature was very sensitive to viscosity. Now that was a 9,000RPM motor… Running a 15w-50 would result in >280F within a few laps while a 5w-30 would sit 250F all day at 90+ ambient temps. My point is that using a thicker oil or less efficient oil will result in higher temps all around due to extra windage and pumping losses in the engine.

As a reference, my stock power car runs at 220F coolant and 230F oil in 90-degree ambient using BMW 0w-30 LL-01FE. DCT oil temps around 200F. Coolant and oil temps have never been a problem. And yes, I’m driving fast. Maybe next event try the genuine oil and see if that brings temps down.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by E90convert

Curious - what engine oil is everyone using? My S2000 oil temperature was very sensitive to viscosity. Now that was a 9,000RPM motor… Running a 15w-50 would result in >280F within a few laps while a 5w-30 would sit 250F all day at 90+ ambient temps. My point is that using a thicker oil or less efficient oil will result in higher temps all around due to extra windage and pumping losses in the engine.

As a reference, my stock power car runs at 220F coolant and 230F oil in 90-degree ambient using BMW 0w-30 LL-01FE. DCT oil temps around 200F. Coolant and oil temps have never been a problem. And yes, I’m driving fast. Maybe next event try the genuine oil and see if that brings temps down.

While IATs are challenging for everyone on track, coolant and oil temp issues are only a problem for guys running north of ~420whp.

ZM2 (470whp) the resident track meltdown expert runs Motul V300 iirc. I’ve switched to Motul Xcess Gen2 5w40 myself (~390whp) but don’t run in 90*+ weather since our track season is year round and it’s miserable.

[E90convert]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

While IATs are challenging for everyone on track, coolant and oil temp issues are only a problem for guys running north of ~420whp.

ZM2 (470whp) the resident track meltdown expert runs Motul V300 iirc. I’ve switched to Motul Xcess Gen2 5w40 myself (~390whp) but don’t run in 90*+ weather since our track season is year round and it’s miserable.

I think the Motul 300V is a great oil for track work. I’d suggest trying the 300V 5w-30 and see if that brings down temps. If it does, might be interesting to recalculate operating viscosity at the operating temperature. Might find it’s not really that different, just running cooler. If it doesn’t run cooler, I’d probably just stick with the 5w-40 since y’all are running a lot more torque then stock.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by E90convert

Curious - what engine oil is everyone using?

I have been switching it up, but with the oil temp difference between stock thermostat + stock oil cooler and Mossleman thermostat + CSF oil cooler I was running LiquiMoly 5W-40 (same oil for both arrangements). I'll be putting in Redline 5W-30 in for my next oil change...just trying to figure out if I am going to stick with the CSF oil cooler. I might bite the bullet and go with do88. Not sure if that's the best one or not - seems to be.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2guru

I have been switching it up, but with the oil temp difference between stock thermostat + stock oil cooler and Mossleman thermostat + CSF oil cooler I was running LiquiMoly 5W-40 (same oil for both arrangements). I'll be putting in Redline 5W-30 in for my next oil change...just trying to figure out if I am going to stick with the CSF oil cooler. I might bite the bullet and go with do88. Not sure if that's the best one or not - seems to be.

Does the CSF fit in the stock ducting? I would personally do the DO88 and go back to stock in the meantime. What a disappointment

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Does the CSF fit in the stock ducting? I would personally do the DO88 and go back to stock in the meantime. What a disappointment

It does fit, but it's not a very sealed arrangement. I'll take a closer look when I take it apart again. It is disappointing. Just ordered the do88. Hopefully someone wants a one-time used CSF oil cooler.

If temps don't improve, then I guess it's not the cooler. I might switch back to the stock thermostat as next step...then vent the hood and maybe fenders.

When I switch to the do88 oil cooler, I'll be doing a test on the oil pressure upon priming the oil system with and then without spark plugs. I am looking forward to that, too.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M2guru

It does fit, but it's not a very sealed arrangement. I'll take a closer look when I take it apart again. It is disappointing. Just ordered the do88. Hopefully someone wants a one-time used CSF oil cooler.

If temps don't improve, then I guess it's not the cooler. I might switch back to the stock thermostat as next step...then vent the hood and maybe fenders.

When I switch to the do88 oil cooler, I'll be doing a test on the oil pressure upon priming the oil system with and then without spark plugs. I am looking forward to that, too.

Glad, not glad, I have some company now to help test all this out!

I’m CSFless now (do88 radiator & oil cooler, stock DCT cooler with larger M2CSR DCT pan). Altho, my do88 oil cooler didn’t arrive from Europe in time for the track day I had planned, and now I have a lot of travel coming up so I’m not sure if I’ll get to test everything on a hot track day this year.

Will see.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by M2guru

It does fit, but it's not a very sealed arrangement. I'll take a closer look when I take it apart again.

I have pics if anyone is interested, but the ducting in front of the cooler fits just like the factory, so there is no issue there (When I made my statement before, I was thinking of the rear/exit but that's not an issue.

Since I have the bumper cover off, I am painstakingly using a pick to straighten out fins in the radiator. I am not ready to buy a new radiator yet, so this is a minor (?) help. Car has about 30,000 mile, but about 1/4 if that is likely track miles. It's amazing the dings in the tubes that look close to causing issues and some of the tiny rocks that get stuck/imbedded!

[AmuroRay]

Do you have a log of this event? I watched the video, and it looks like you're at 230F oil within 2 minutes. I see you oil temps just get up to 26XF, but the coolant actually stays low until your oil gets to that range and comes up to 24XF.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Do you have a log of this event? I watched the video, and it looks like you're at 230F oil within 2 minutes. I see you oil temps just get up to 26XF, but the coolant actually stays low until your oil gets to that range and comes up to 24XF.

Yes. The data from the video came from the bm3 log. https://bootmod3.net/log?id=64d372f6ae729b71ff8c53c2

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2guru

Yes. The data from the video came from the bm3 log. https://bootmod3.net/log?id=64d372f6ae729b71ff8c53c2

Did you delete your last log of the event? Darn.
Well, I'll say this actually doesn't look as bad as I thought. You're running a longer session, higher speeds (144MPH!) higher temps and your car basically reached that peak speed every single time. You never hit limp mode and were able to go flat out.

This is actually pretty good, maybe try max cool next time? Otherwise that new oil cooler will help.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Did you delete your last log of the event? Darn.

Which log are you referring to? Sorry - not understanding.

This is actually pretty good, maybe try max cool next time? Otherwise that new oil cooler will help.

This was with max cool. I hope the new oil cooler will help!

This can't hurt either: A timelapse: https://youtube.com/shorts/0K31UjM85a4?feature=share

Left side done, right side not done:


Both sides done:

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Do you have a log of this event? I watched the video, and it looks like you're at 230F oil within 2 minutes. I see you oil temps just get up to 26XF, but the coolant actually stays low until your oil gets to that range and comes up to 24XF.

IDK, it all sounds eerily familiar to me.

Anytime ambient is above 75F, oil will go 260F+, coolant will go 242F+, the car will start to pull power, and temps slowly keep increasing to >270F oil and >250F coolant, even tho the car keeps pulling more and more power.

I’m hopeful the do88 oil cooler & BMS oil cooler bypass will keep the oil temps lower and reduce the cascade effect to the coolant side, but have to find a hot track day that fits in the next cpl weeks to test.

And, my updated tune that tapers boost up top to ~3psi lower without dropping power much should help.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

IDK, it all sounds eerily familiar to me.

Anytime ambient is above 75F, oil will go 260F+, coolant will go 242F+, the car will start to pull power, and temps slowly keep increasing to >270F oil and >250F coolant, even tho the car keeps pulling more and more power.

I’m hopeful the do88 oil cooler & BMS oil cooler bypass will keep the oil temps lower and reduce the cascade effect to the coolant side, but have to find a hot track day that fits in the next cpl weeks to test.

He said temps were even cooler this time (in the 80s) than it was on prior lap day (start of this thread) yet the oil temps were higher - however, he's driving harder AND longer. (20 min session)

And I watched the video and reviewed logs, his coolant hit 241 once, but his oil never went above 262. In fact, the coolant was never really an issue until near the end of the course when the oil was getting too hot, even then it came back to respectable levels.

He never hit limp mode, as detailed as his consistent 144mph top speed on each lap.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

He said temps were even cooler this time (in the 80s) than it was on prior lap day (start of this thread) yet the oil temps were higher - however, he's driving harder AND longer. (20 min session)

And I watched the video and reviewed logs, his coolant hit 241 once, but his oil never went above 262. In fact, the coolant was never really an issue until near the end of the course when the oil was getting too hot, even then it came back to respectable levels.

He never hit limp mode, as detailed as his consistent 144mph top speed on each lap.

Agreed on all that.

I’m just saying he’s already right at the edge. A bit more ambient temp, power, or faster track (150-155mph up here) and then he’ll be getting power pulled bc of oil & coolant temps.

What were IATs (I didn’t look)? It could be he’s hitting over 110F a decent bit and the car is already pulling power before oil & coolant temps get high bc of the power being pulled due to high IAT’s, and that is actually helping the oil & coolant temps from getting out of control.

That was kind of the point of my original response to to the OP’s thread. If you cure the IAT issue, you very well may more quickly hit the coolant & oil temp issue and will then have to address that. Altho, there’s a lot of factors at play that we’re all trying to figure out.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Agreed on all that.

I’m just saying he’s already right at the edge. A bit more ambient temp, power, or faster track (150-155mph up here) and then he’ll be getting power pulled bc of oil & coolant temps.

What were IATs (I didn’t look)? It could be he’s hitting over 110F a decent bit and the car is already pulling power before oil & coolant temps get high bc of the power being pulled due to high IAT’s, and that is actually helping the oil & coolant temps from getting out of control.

That was kind of the point of my original response to to the OP’s thread. If you cure the IAT issue, you very well may more quickly hit the coolant & oil temp issue and will then have to address that. Altho, there’s a lot of factors at play that we’re all trying to figure out.

He's at 141 IAT for a bit, so it's just hot air with little timing.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

He's at 141 IAT for a bit, so it's just hot air with little timing.

If you overlay ignition timing correction with IAT in his log you’ll note there’s a lot of correction happening as IATs >125F, with significant correction happening as he heads down the straightaway where IATs go up to >150F each time. And, that’s not even a hot ambient day, IMO.

If he solves the IAT issue to keep them <125F on a laps like those, there will be a good bit more power being produced which will only increase the coolant and oil temp reduction needs for the car.

The power decrease from high IATs like that is very noticeable on track, and it’s helping him keep the engine cooler right now. Slap on a better IC, and be prepared to go whole hog on coolant and oil upgrades.