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      08-25-2019, 08:05 PM   #1
Malakas
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Rear wing downforce

I wanted to post a question, and while the mods may move this to the "cosmetic" section, it is more a question of function, and specifically track function.

BMW makes the performance rear wing for our cars (using IND website just to reference the products), and there is the racing wing from the M235iR cup car... as well as a variety of aftermarket options.

I am assuming the BMW M235iR wing makes actual rear downforce, but I'm wondering what other wings actually do so...

For now I'm going to drive my M2C on the street, but it will see its fair share of track time and I am hoping to "surprise" a few p-car buddies with the performance envelop of this car... so Im trying to research what aero is real, and what is just for show.

Thanks to all for any input!



{just a quick side note, because so often people chime in that driver training is the best mod... I could not agree more. I regularly race in WRL and Champ (formerly chump) and as part of our racing team we do get continuing private training with pros, both with data and side-seat.}
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      08-25-2019, 09:57 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakas View Post
I wanted to post a question, and while the mods may move this to the "cosmetic" section, it is more a question of function, and specifically track function.

BMW makes the performance rear wing for our cars (using IND website just to reference the products), and there is the racing wing from the M235iR cup car... as well as a variety of aftermarket options.

I am assuming the BMW M235iR wing makes actual rear downforce, but I'm wondering what other wings actually do so...

For now I'm going to drive my M2C on the street, but it will see its fair share of track time and I am hoping to "surprise" a few p-car buddies with the performance envelop of this car... so Im trying to research what aero is real, and what is just for show.

Thanks to all for any input!



{just a quick side note, because so often people chime in that driver training is the best mod... I could not agree more. I regularly race in WRL and Champ (formerly chump) and as part of our racing team we do get continuing private training with pros, both with data and side-seat.}
Both should produce downforce but would guess the 235 can produce more. It looks like the performance one is fixed - so you pretty much get what you get there. The 235 is adjustable- can raise or lower the angle of attack for your desired amount of downforce - and drag. The uprights are also taller - in theory put it into cleaner air letting it be more effective. Shape of the wing looks the same, end plates are different. The style of end plate on the 235 looks more in line with more ďraceĒ oriented wings. Not sure how much that makes a difference.

A couple things to consider are balance and drag. Adding downforce to the rear is usually combined with additional aero on the front. Being able to adjust the rear wing can be nice to find a balance between the two. Drag also comes into play. How efficient the wing is at producing downforce is important & something to look into as well.

It also looks like bmw expects more downforce out of the 235 wing based on their recommendation to reinforce the trunk - or buy their already reinforced one. That is not specifically noted for the performance wing.

Iíve actually been looking for a wing for my M2 as well. Iíve been talking with ind about the 235ir wing too and plan to pull the trigger tomorrow. Itís kind of stupid money but to me it is the best looking wing (if Iím going to be that guy that sports a wing on the street this one looks the least DB to me) - that looks like it will also perform on the track. Without any CFD data itís hard to say how it compares to other wings though - but would think bmw was satisfied enough with it to put on the M235ir. To me the performance wing is mainly a looks thing.

APR has a few options but I donít think anything specific for the M2. Nine lives racing has one that is very efficient based on their data but also not sure if they have a specific application for this platform. Might also check with bimmerworld - they might can offer some good advice on a full aero setup including the wing.
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      08-25-2019, 11:29 PM   #3
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The M-perf wing looks more like a spoiler. It'll change the airflow coming off of the roof to be smoother and straighten it out coming off of the rear of the car. It doesn't look like it produces any downforce, but does improve aerodynamics.

The iR racing wing is an actual downforce wing. It's positioned high up so it catches the the airflow coming off of the roof, rather than just trying to smooth it out. When made more parallel to the ground it'll act more like a spoiler, but when angled it'll create drag and the airflow coming off of the roof will push down on it.
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      08-26-2019, 12:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Both should produce downforce but would guess the 235 can produce more. It looks like the performance one is fixed - so you pretty much get what you get there. The 235 is adjustable- can raise or lower the angle of attack for your desired amount of downforce - and drag. The uprights are also taller - in theory put it into cleaner air letting it be more effective. Shape of the wing looks the same, end plates are different. The style of end plate on the 235 looks more in line with more ďraceĒ oriented wings. Not sure how much that makes a difference.

A couple things to consider are balance and drag. Adding downforce to the rear is usually combined with additional aero on the front. Being able to adjust the rear wing can be nice to find a balance between the two. Drag also comes into play. How efficient the wing is at producing downforce is important & something to look into as well.

It also looks like bmw expects more downforce out of the 235 wing based on their recommendation to reinforce the trunk - or buy their already reinforced one. That is not specifically noted for the performance wing.

Iíve actually been looking for a wing for my M2 as well. Iíve been talking with ind about the 235ir wing too and plan to pull the trigger tomorrow. Itís kind of stupid money but to me it is the best looking wing (if Iím going to be that guy that sports a wing on the street this one looks the least DB to me) - that looks like it will also perform on the track. Without any CFD data itís hard to say how it compares to other wings though - but would think bmw was satisfied enough with it to put on the M235ir. To me the performance wing is mainly a looks thing.

APR has a few options but I donít think anything specific for the M2. Nine lives racing has one that is very efficient based on their data but also not sure if they have a specific application for this platform. Might also check with bimmerworld - they might can offer some good advice on a full aero setup including the wing.
This is timely. I recently brought my car to 9 lives racing to use for computer modeling for an M2 wing and splitter. It's a small, local shop that seems to have a great understanding of aero. They make and test all their products here in Atlanta. I have been "building " and tracking my car over the past 2.5 years and have seen a steady improvement in all aspects including lap times. My car is virtually the only real street car in TT3/4 and is also one of the few without a big ass Wang. I have been following this and other forums and have concluded,as has the OP, that most of these bolt ones are just cosmetic. While many shops , like Sneed for Speed have lab tested aero for E36/46/92, no one has really stepped up for our cars with good wind tunnel data. Good aero is well worth the price, bad aero can wreck you....so I am still on the fence. By the end of the year I will probably test the 9LR aero, unless something better comes along.
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      08-26-2019, 11:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
This is timely. I recently brought my car to 9 lives racing to use for computer modeling for an M2 wing and splitter. It's a small, local shop that seems to have a great understanding of aero. They make and test all their products here in Atlanta. I have been "building " and tracking my car over the past 2.5 years and have seen a steady improvement in all aspects including lap times. My car is virtually the only real street car in TT3/4 and is also one of the few without a big ass Wang. I have been following this and other forums and have concluded,as has the OP, that most of these bolt ones are just cosmetic. While many shops , like Sneed for Speed have lab tested aero for E36/46/92, no one has really stepped up for our cars with good wind tunnel data. Good aero is well worth the price, bad aero can wreck you....so I am still on the fence. By the end of the year I will probably test the 9LR aero, unless something better comes along.
That is pretty timely. I know it is looking at generic data but their big wang was the most efficient wing I could find for my E92 M3. Looking forward to seeing how it works when my build is complete. If they are bringing one out for the M2 that is definitely worth considering.
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      08-26-2019, 11:14 AM   #6
Malakas
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Great responses, thank you...!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
A couple things to consider are balance and drag. Adding downforce to the rear is usually combined with additional aero on the front. Being able to adjust the rear wing can be nice to find a balance between the two. Drag also comes into play. How efficient the wing is at producing downforce is important & something to look into as well.

It also looks like bmw expects more downforce out of the 235 wing based on their recommendation to reinforce the trunk - or buy their already reinforced one. That is not specifically noted for the performance wing.

I’ve actually been looking for a wing for my M2 as well. I’ve been talking with ind about the 235ir wing too and plan to pull the trigger tomorrow. It’s kind of stupid money but to me it is the best looking wing (if I’m going to be that guy that sports a wing on the street this one looks the least DB to me) - that looks like it will also perform on the track. Without any CFD data it’s hard to say how it compares to other wings though - but would think bmw was satisfied enough with it to put on the M235ir. To me the performance wing is mainly a looks thing.
OG Shark, will be interested to see pics from this addition. I agree, lol, that's its the least DB option... for the street, and probably has the best ability at track. You do bring up an excellent point about balancing the front though... what front splitter are you using?? Wonder if the teams will be dumping their M235 racecars with the new car coming out... could be nice for parts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
The M-perf wing looks more like a spoiler...
FarKLE, thanks... totally agree about the spoiler vs wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
This is timely. I recently brought my car to 9 lives racing to use for computer modeling for an M2 wing and splitter. It's a small, local shop that seems to have a great understanding of aero. They make and test all their products here in Atlanta. I have been "building " and tracking my car over the past 2.5 years and have seen a steady improvement in all aspects including lap times. My car is virtually the only real street car in TT3/4 and is also one of the few without a big ass Wang. I have been following this and other forums and have concluded, as has the OP, that most of these bolt ones are just cosmetic. While many shops , like Sneed for Speed have lab tested aero for E36/46/92, no one has really stepped up for our cars with good wind tunnel data. Good aero is well worth the price, bad aero can wreck you....so I am still on the fence. By the end of the year I will probably test the 9LR aero, unless something better comes along.
I checked them out online... that is one big ass WANG! Cool to see a company actually doing research. That's what scares me about all these other "aero" products... I doubt any of them have any data... beyond how they look.
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Last edited by Malakas; 08-26-2019 at 11:34 AM..
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      08-26-2019, 03:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakas View Post
OG Shark, will be interested to see pics from this addition. I agree, lol, that's its the least DB option... for the street, and probably has the best ability at track. You do bring up an excellent point about balancing the front though... what front splitter are you using?? Wonder if the teams will be dumping their M235 racecars with the new car coming out... could be nice for parts...

.
Will post a pic when it gets here. Sounds like 3 to 4 weeks for them to receive, paint, & ship. I have RW Carbon's GTS style front lip on the way. They have an option for a second lower piece that extends out even further. Not sure how effective or street friendly it will be though. If that doesn't work out then will have to go to plan B and fab something that works with just the upper portion (so I can utilize the brake duct inlets) that can be *somewhat* easily attached for track use.

Not just for the possibility of more parts being available - also excited to see how the M2 replacement stacks up.
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      08-27-2019, 11:03 AM   #8
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I’ve been looking at Flossmann parts, specially the front splitter. Trying to find more info on how to mount it securely to the car instead of just mounting to the front bumper.

Who wants to pull the trigger and let us know?

https://www.flossmann-bmw.com/en/bmw...mw-f87-m2-gt4/

AJ Hartman and Klauss composites aero parts are available for BMW as well. Not cheap but well made.

https://ajhartmanaero.com/bmw/

https://klauscomposites.com/
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      09-03-2019, 09:05 PM   #9
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What do you guys think of this? GTS replica... or actually something they've tested...??

Evolve Edison Carbon GTS Wing

This size seems like a nice middle ground from the rear lip and the M235 wing... I wonder if anyone has fitted the M4 GTS OEM wing to an M2.... hmmmm.... let me search
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      09-04-2019, 02:18 PM   #10
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I know Lightweight uses this on their in house M2 track car.

https://lightweight-titanauspuffanla...mw-m2-f87.html

Couldn’t see it personally since the M2 had a bit of an”incident” at Spa and the wing itself had been taken off
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      09-04-2019, 08:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EUCSIP View Post
I know Lightweight uses this on their in house M2 track car.

https://lightweight-titanauspuffanla...mw-m2-f87.html

Couldnít see it personally since the M2 had a bit of anĒincidentĒ at Spa and the wing itself had been taken off
I like that!
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      09-16-2019, 05:04 PM   #12
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Ever since I put on a front lip (to complement my spoiler), my M2 has a tendency to oversteer at the limit, which I don't actually mind too much since it seems my front tires are a lot happier rather than screeching through every corner. I probably could use a wing to balance it out a bit, but I feel that it would look too excessive on the street.
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