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      07-08-2019, 06:34 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
My theory is the people crying about higher-end M cars are upset because they can't (or don't want to) afford them. Their fragile egos seem to take a hit when they realize they don't have the "ultimate" M model of their car. Thus they craft weak explanations of M dilution.
I don't think that is the issue here. What we're seeing is a trend that BMW enthusiasts have been complaining about for years. Having an ///M logo on a vehicle used to feel special. It doesn't feel as special anymore.
You're reinforcing my point. The existence of higher-end M cars isn't diluting the brand; it's apparently diluting the "special" feeling the ego-centric people used to get from buying any M. Now that BMW offers higher trim M variants, all of a sudden these people seem to feel their base M car doesn't feed their ego as well. They appear to want to feel superior by owning the "ultimate" version of their vehicle model.
Bingo!
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      07-08-2019, 06:41 PM   #68
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I think it's funny that an m3 or m4 is being considered "high end". It's all relative to what you can afford.
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      07-08-2019, 07:16 PM   #69
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Wonder when the first CSL model is going to show up?
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      07-08-2019, 08:06 PM   #70
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I wonder if actual Porsche owners complain when Porsche releases the GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 Touring and a 911R...
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      07-08-2019, 08:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
My theory is the people crying about higher-end M cars are upset because they can't (or don't want to) afford them. Their fragile egos seem to take a hit when they realize they don't have the "ultimate" M model of their car. Thus they craft weak explanations of M dilution.
I don't think that is the issue here. What we're seeing is a trend that BMW enthusiasts have been complaining about for years. Having an ///M logo on a vehicle used to feel special. It doesn't feel as special anymore.
You're reinforcing my point. The existence of higher-end M cars isn't diluting the brand; it's apparently diluting the "special" feeling the ego-centric people used to get from buying any M. Now that BMW offers higher trim M variants, all of a sudden these people seem to feel their base M car doesn't feed their ego as well. They appear to want to feel superior by owning the "ultimate" version of their vehicle model.
That's an entirely myopic perspective.
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      07-08-2019, 08:18 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I think it's funny that an m3 or m4 is being considered "high end". It's all relative to what you can afford.
In the grand scheme of the world outside of this forum bubble, an ///M car is a high end car. High end does not have to mean exotic.
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      07-08-2019, 08:41 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
Bmw Motorsport brings an M2 race car for customer racing.

Thats what it is!
Yes, replacement for the M240iR.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...97566EN/433397
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      07-08-2019, 09:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
My theory is the people crying about higher-end M cars are upset because they can't (or don't want to) afford them. Their fragile egos seem to take a hit when they realize they don't have the "ultimate" M model of their car. Thus they craft weak explanations of M dilution.
I don't think that is the issue here. What we're seeing is a trend that BMW enthusiasts have been complaining about for years. Having an ///M logo on a vehicle used to feel special. It doesn't feel as special anymore. We all care about exclusivity to some degree when it comes to buying high end vehicles (...otherwise you'd go buy an entry level Kia or Corolla and call it a day, so don't sit here and act like you don't care at all about how your choice in vehicles is perceived by others.
I disagree.

The people who might see me in my M2C have no idea who I am, have absolutely no influence on my life, and I'm certain could care less about me as the driver of the M2C. They may admire the car, but their perceptions of me will never be known, nor do I care.

We can't buy a 405 bhp Kia or Toyota ... well maybe a Lexus ... right?

Did you buy your M2 for yourself, or to impress others?
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      07-08-2019, 09:27 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
I wonder if actual Porsche owners complain when Porsche releases the GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 Touring and a 911R...
Yeah ..... I don't think so. 🙂
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      07-08-2019, 09:37 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvette View Post
M2, m2c, m2cs, m2 gts....... m is not what it used to be
You said it mister.
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      07-08-2019, 10:09 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCompact View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
My theory is the people crying about higher-end M cars are upset because they can't (or don't want to) afford them. Their fragile egos seem to take a hit when they realize they don't have the "ultimate" M model of their car. Thus they craft weak explanations of M dilution.
I don't think that is the issue here. What we're seeing is a trend that BMW enthusiasts have been complaining about for years. Having an ///M logo on a vehicle used to feel special. It doesn't feel as special anymore. We all care about exclusivity to some degree when it comes to buying high end vehicles (...otherwise you'd go buy an entry level Kia or Corolla and call it a day, so don't sit here and act like you don't care at all about how your choice in vehicles is perceived by others.
I disagree.

The people who might see me in my M2C have no idea who I am, have absolutely no influence on my life, and I'm certain could care less about me as the driver of the M2C. They may admire the car, but their perceptions of me will never be known, nor do I care.

We can't buy a 405 bhp Kia or Toyota ... well maybe a Lexus ... right?

Did you buy your M2 for yourself, or to impress others?
I don't own an ///M2. I own an ///M4. No! I didn't buy it for others, BUT I do recognize that I like nice things, and with owning nice things comes a perception. Admit it. Deny it. It doesn't matter. It's fact. It's the same reason that you're likely not wearing Wranglers, non-name brand shoes from Payless, or a Timex sourced from CVS Pharmacy.


.....and if they sold a 405 BHP Camry, I highly doubt that you would've seriously looked into it much like someone shopping a high powered BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc. coupe doesn't really look [that seriously] at a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/etc. (...generally speaking). Let's not kid ourselves here with power statements when we all know that the prestige holds weight.
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      07-08-2019, 10:15 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
I wonder if actual Porsche owners complain when Porsche releases the GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 Touring and a 911R...
Porsche cars are actual true sports car from the ground up, not apples to apples.

BMW starts with a 30k sedan and adds go fast parts to it.

Not the same thing or same league. BMW is FAR from Porsche.
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      07-08-2019, 10:49 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Yvette View Post
M2, m2c, m2cs, m2 gts....... m is not what it used to be
Agree, it is better
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      07-08-2019, 10:51 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrumm3 View Post
Thanks for the heads-up. Spot-on. Now added to the first post of this thread:

----------
Excerpt from a BMW press release of June 24, 2019 (see here):
"BMW sets course for a successful Customer Racing future – New entry-level model based on the BMW M2 for grassroots and club racing.
Munich. Next year is set to be a good year for private BMW drivers and teams who battle for race wins and titles around the world. BMW is offering customers with a passion for grassroots motorsport and club racing a global service and technical support. Furthermore, the model range is being successively renewed. Leading the way in 2020 is a new entry-level race car, based on the BMW M2 Competition (combined fuel consumption in l/100 km: 10.0–9.8; combined CO2 emissions in g/km: 227–224), which is equally suited to racing at club and professional levels.
The successor to the BMW M240i Racing, is currently being developed and tested. The focus is on easy handling – with the highest technical quality and maximum safety. The first cars are to be delivered at the start of the second quarter of 2020. A maiden test under race conditions is planned for round five of the VLN Endurance Championship at the Nürburgring (GER) on 3rd August 2019.
The BMW M2 Competition is setting fresh benchmarks in the compact high-performance sports car segment. It’s powered by a six-cylinder in-line engine with M TwinPower Turbo Technology, based on the power unit from the BMW M3/M4, with three-litre cubic capacity, delivering 410 bhp with a peak torque of 550 Nm. Creating a race version of this model was a logical step.
Furthermore, the Customer Racing service concept is to be expanded by building and developing competence centres in the USA and Asia. To achieve this, experienced partners will be commissioned to support teams at a local level with a high degree of motorsport expertise.
On the distribution and service side, dealers with a focus on motorsport will be established around the world. They will offer optimal customer care, in line with BMW’s high standards, thanks to special training. This new area offers the ideal entry opportunity for BMW drivers who have, for example, fallen in love with motor racing whilst on BMW Driving Experience training courses."
----------

Looking forward to BMW releasing official pictures and videos of the scheduled August 3, 2019 maiden test at The Ring.
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      07-08-2019, 11:02 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I don't own an ///M2. I own an ///M4. No! I didn't buy it for others, BUT I do recognize that I like nice things, and with owning nice things comes a perception. Admit it. Deny it. It doesn't matter. It's fact. It's the same reason that you're likely not wearing Wranglers, non-name brand shoes from Payless, or a Timex sourced from CVS Pharmacy.


.....and if they sold a 405 BHP Camry, I highly doubt that you would've seriously looked into it much like someone shopping a high powered BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc. coupe doesn't really look [that seriously] at a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/etc. (...generally speaking). Let's not kid ourselves here with power statements when we all know that the prestige holds weight.
QFT thank you for keeping it one hundred
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      07-08-2019, 11:44 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCompact View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
My theory is the people crying about higher-end M cars are upset because they can't (or don't want to) afford them. Their fragile egos seem to take a hit when they realize they don't have the "ultimate" M model of their car. Thus they craft weak explanations of M dilution.
I don't think that is the issue here. What we're seeing is a trend that BMW enthusiasts have been complaining about for years. Having an ///M logo on a vehicle used to feel special. It doesn't feel as special anymore. We all care about exclusivity to some degree when it comes to buying high end vehicles (...otherwise you'd go buy an entry level Kia or Corolla and call it a day, so don't sit here and act like you don't care at all about how your choice in vehicles is perceived by others.
I disagree.

The people who might see me in my M2C have no idea who I am, have absolutely no influence on my life, and I'm certain could care less about me as the driver of the M2C. They may admire the car, but their perceptions of me will never be known, nor do I care.

We can't buy a 405 bhp Kia or Toyota ... well maybe a Lexus ... right?

Did you buy your M2 for yourself, or to impress others?
I don't own an ///M2. I own an ///M4. No! I didn't buy it for others, BUT I do recognize that I like nice things, and with owning nice things comes a perception. Admit it. Deny it. It doesn't matter. It's fact. It's the same reason that you're likely not wearing Wranglers, non-name brand shoes from Payless, or a Timex sourced from CVS Pharmacy.


.....and if they sold a 405 BHP Camry, I highly doubt that you would've seriously looked into it much like someone shopping a high powered BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc. coupe doesn't really look [that seriously] at a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/etc. (...generally speaking). Let's not kid ourselves here with power statements when we all know that the prestige holds weight.
Whatever.

What I drive matters little to anyone but me. If you feel some sort of prestige owning a M4 - more power to you, I guess.

The only point that you and I am in agreement with concerns the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Charger etc. I would not own any of those - not that they're not good cars - I just have zero interest in them.
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      07-08-2019, 11:48 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
I wonder if actual Porsche owners complain when Porsche releases the GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 Touring and a 911R...
Porsche cars are actual true sports car from the ground up, not apples to apples.

BMW starts with a 30k sedan and adds go fast parts to it.

Not the same thing or same league. BMW is FAR from Porsche.
You completely missed the point. No one is comparing BMW to Porsche. No one here cares that M cars are built off hum drum volume models, though that's actually a reason why people like BMW M.

Everyone here is complaining about brand dilution. Do you think Porsche owners sit and complain that Porsche keeps coming out with GT3 variants and diluting their GT line up for the 911?
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      07-09-2019, 12:14 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
I wonder if actual Porsche owners complain when Porsche releases the GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 Touring and a 911R...
Porsche cars are actual true sports car from the ground up, not apples to apples.

BMW starts with a 30k sedan and adds go fast parts to it.

Not the same thing or same league. BMW is FAR from Porsche.
You completely missed the point. No one is comparing BMW to Porsche. No one here cares that M cars are built off hum drum volume models, though that's actually a reason why people like BMW M.

Everyone here is complaining about brand dilution. Do you think Porsche owners sit and complain that Porsche keeps coming out with GT3 variants and diluting their GT line up for the 911?
FWIW, the GT moniker/nomenclature at Porsche is only added to the best of the best. We can no longer say the same for the ///M badge (...and I'm not saying this because of the ///M2 variants; they are righteous ///M cars.....although people had issues with the 1M at first and the first gen ///M2 and considered them not to be real ///M cars because of the lack of bespoke this or that; people's memories are short). There was a time when that was true for BMW ///M though.
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      07-09-2019, 12:27 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
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Originally Posted by SoCali E36 View Post
They are milking the everlasting life out on the M2 model. What's next? M2 GTR?
They've made a bazillion M2s already. Have saturated the market. What's another bazillion!?

It is after all the biggest selling M car these days so a volume leader for the M division. They want these everywhere
I hardly see M2's.

I see M4's absolutely everywhere.
I sell these cars. There's like one M2 for ever ten M4s out there
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      07-09-2019, 12:37 AM   #86
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Not street legal, guys, won't even have air bags. This is not a GTS or CSL or GT3 competitor. It's a race car. An actual race car. Like the ones used in racing. For the track only. A race car.
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      07-09-2019, 12:50 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
I hardly see M2's.

I see M4's absolutely everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonven View Post
+1
+1
M4s are everywhere in SoCal. Maybe see an occasional M2 here and there, usually the same ones I see locally. Attend a lot of BMWCCA events through the year, M4 to M2 ratio has to be 5:1 at its lowest. My buddy is usually one of the few M2s that show up, in a sea of M3/M4s.

Last edited by M3_WC; 07-09-2019 at 01:25 AM..
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      07-09-2019, 12:56 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Well they've sold more M2s than M4s for the past 2 years. I see way more M2s than M4s.

They have sold way more M2s than F80 M3s.
The production numbers we have so far. Production numbers are not released until EOP.
F80 M3 - 34,677
F87(N55) - 29,470

During the F80 M3 production the M4 was produced at much higher rate than the M3. We will get numbers when F82 is out of production.

For example the E92 M3 was produced at 4:1 ratio compared to the E90 M3. Expect M4 units to be 3-4x the F80, plus additional years of production.

The M2 production numbers will not be anywhere near M4 numbers when production ends for both F87 and F82.

Last edited by M3_WC; 07-09-2019 at 01:27 AM..
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