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M2 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip > RE71 v RS4 v NT01 - what track tire do you run?

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      08-13-2019, 10:21 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by mcvaughan View Post
After years of tracking I found the NT01, and used them extensively on my M4. They'd last forever and I too found them very consistent. Now with my M2C, I realized there's no 19" version. I'm hoping to find something comparable. I have not driven on R888R or Trofeos, so that may be something to try. I also have not tried SC2's, but I did like the original SC on my 911.
I prefer 19s on my M2 bc I can get more rubber under the car in the tires I want to run. I’ve tried R888R and Trofeo R, neither have the grip of the 71R, cost more, similar longevity, and aren’t as versatile.

The 71R can be run in light rain & cold weather and still has tons of grip; you can also easily arrive & drive on 71R’s. The Trofeo is pretty comfortable as a street tire, tho.

As long as you keep your pressures below 35psi and don’t overdrive/slide them, you’ll get at least 8-days out of 71R’s. And, I’m not a slow driver (2:13 on only my 3rd day at WGI, 265/35/18 square 71R’s), you just need to treat the tire right.

I currently run 265/35 & 305/30/19 RE-71R’s, and it’s the best all around setup I’ve tried.

Last edited by ZM2; 08-13-2019 at 10:36 AM..
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      08-29-2019, 02:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by dvas View Post
Thought I would share my impressions as I ran NT01s last season and am currently on RE-71s for this year. Both have been run on 18 x 10 wheels, square 275/35 on a 2017 M2 with lowered suspension (Bilsteins) and plenty of negative camber.

The NT01 is a great tire, and the tire of choice for most instructors. They are very grippy, are not that sensitive to temps/pressures and can take a lot of abuse. They are consistent throughout a 20 minute session. The NT01s lasted me over 10 track days last year and got faster all the way down to the chords. They are also fairly cheap and are not directional so can be rotated across all corners without issue. I think I paid $900 for the set, shipped. The two major cons in my mind are that they are horrible in standing water, especially as the tread wears down, and are a bit of a blunt instrument and lack the feel of the RE-71s. They may also take a number of laps to get into their window of operating temps on a cold day.

The RE-71s are essentially an autocross tire. And despite a marketed 200 treadwear, they are as grippy if not grippier than the NT01s, which are rated at 80 treadwear. They are more adept to be driven on the street and have excellent feel, are fine in standing water, and are up to temp after a few corners. They can let go quickly, but thanks to their feel, are easy to catch - I had bigger slides in the NT01s. They are also (surprisingly) ultimately faster than the NT01s, in my experience. About 0.5 seconds faster around Limerock, which is a 60 second lap. The major con is that they will not last nearly as long as the NT01s. Even with 3.2 negative camber, I don't think I will get more than 5 days out of them. They are also very sensitive to pressures/temps. After a few hot laps, they get overheated and greasy, requiring a lap or two at a slower pace to cool them down. Lastly, they are directional so technically should be remounted on the wheels to be rotated. I have run them backwards in the dry and my pace was down a bit, although that could just have been me.

I haven't decided on my next tires, but I may just go back to the NT01s next year because of their ease of use and consistency. For a time event, where lap times matter, I would go with RE-71s. But for a long season of 20 minute HPDE sessions, the NT01s may be better suited.

Not sure about the RS4s, never tried them. Tread pattern doesn't look conducive for a fast tire to me, but I could be wrong.
My guess was correct regarding the longevity of the RE71Rs. I posted my best lap time on day 4 with the tire but by day 5 the grip started to drastically fall. On day 5, I was 1 to 1.5 seconds off pace on a 60 second Limerock lap. I continued to used them for another few days as I had committed to instructing but on day 6 they were a good 2 seconds off pace and day 7 was like ice skating.

I'm exploring alternatives for next year but will likely go back to the NT01 for the ease of use and consistency.

Attaching some pics, as well.

Day 0 vs. the NT01
Day 1 - after 35 minutes, or two sessions, on track
Day 6 - Still have rubber and showing some tread but lacks grip
Day 7 - Ready to be replaced
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      08-29-2019, 03:48 PM   #69
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I really like the NT01 - not the fastest tire but makes up for it in durability and consistency throughout it's lifespan. To me it is a very good HPDE tire - one that you can get some decent speed out of and you never have to worry about them heat cycling out. They have good manners but can get a bit greasy in extended sessions (but most do). Price is fairly favorable too - can get a set of 275/35/18s for between 800.00 & 1000.00. To me they are a good choice for a fun tire. Would be awesome if Nitto updated them and were able to make them faster while keeping the same durability & consistency.
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      08-29-2019, 04:35 PM   #70
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I'm impressed with the even wear! I'm on Day 5 with my RE71s. What camber settings are you using?
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      08-29-2019, 04:57 PM   #71
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I'm impressed with the even wear! I'm on Day 5 with my RE71s. What camber settings are you using?
3.2 negative camber of Bilstein PSS10
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      08-30-2019, 11:32 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by dvas View Post
My guess was correct regarding the longevity of the RE71Rs. I posted my best lap time on day 4 with the tire but by day 5 the grip started to drastically fall. On day 5, I was 1 to 1.5 seconds off pace on a 60 second Limerock lap. I continued to used them for another few days as I had committed to instructing but on day 6 they were a good 2 seconds off pace and day 7 was like ice skating.

I'm exploring alternatives for next year but will likely go back to the NT01 for the ease of use and consistency.

Great pics. I'm about to run Day 5 this weekend and I suspect I'm very close to your wear rate - maybe a bit below. I've only got one more event after this so it looks like I'll get a full season with decent grip.

Did you flip the tires on the wheel at some stage? Mine are definitely wearing a bit more on the inside (running -2.9 camber) and I was going to flip them, but to be honest I don't think I could be bothered now.
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      08-30-2019, 11:34 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
I really like the NT01 - not the fastest tire but makes up for it in durability and consistency throughout it's lifespan. To me it is a very good HPDE tire - one that you can get some decent speed out of and you never have to worry about them heat cycling out. They have good manners but can get a bit greasy in extended sessions (but most do). Price is fairly favorable too - can get a set of 275/35/18s for between 800.00 & 1000.00. To me they are a good choice for a fun tire. Would be awesome if Nitto updated them and were able to make them faster while keeping the same durability & consistency.
You are convincing me to try them next year. After all, it's a not a big deal if you are a second off the pace in HPDE - the fact they don't heat cycle out as easily is much more helpful.

I guess if you want to time trial every so often, it's a different story..
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      08-30-2019, 12:25 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by dcmac View Post
Great pics. I'm about to run Day 5 this weekend and I suspect I'm very close to your wear rate - maybe a bit below. I've only got one more event after this so it looks like I'll get a full season with decent grip.

Did you flip the tires on the wheel at some stage? Mine are definitely wearing a bit more on the inside (running -2.9 camber) and I was going to flip them, but to be honest I don't think I could be bothered now.
No never flipped them on the wheels. Just rotated the square setup for every event, trying to keep the wear even.
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      08-30-2019, 05:50 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by dcmac View Post
You are convincing me to try them next year. After all, it's a not a big deal if you are a second off the pace in HPDE - the fact they don't heat cycle out as easily is much more helpful.

I guess if you want to time trial every so often, it's a different story..
They are worth giving a shot. If you can live with losing a bit of pace gaining consistency down to the cords is pretty awesome. Speed is a drug though, can be hard to give up pace...
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      08-31-2019, 04:27 AM   #76
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Speed is a drug though, can be hard to give up pace...
And thatís a platinum fact. I have to make a decision pretty soon on which rubber to go with myself. Under German rules canít go wider than the tire size listed on the registration. But I also have some lower cost Chinese options here we donít have back home. Some research is in order.
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      08-31-2019, 08:11 AM   #77
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And thatís a platinum fact. I have to make a decision pretty soon on which rubber to go with myself. Under German rules canít go wider than the tire size listed on the registration. But I also have some lower cost Chinese options here we donít have back home. Some research is in order.
Is that a German regulation just for the streets? Does that have any effect on you at the track?
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      08-31-2019, 09:14 AM   #78
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If the track happens to be the Nurburgring then often the street regulations apply, for Touristen fahrten it is considered a private toll road and street regulations strictly apply and many trackdays also require more "street-legal" set ups to lower insurance costs.
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      08-31-2019, 12:23 PM   #79
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Is that a German regulation just for the streets? Does that have any effect on you at the track?
I have only one set of wheels for the M2 and I go between winters and summers. Winters are required here between November and March. So since I have to wear a summer tire anyway might as well have a 200 rated semi slick.

We are renting a house here while on assignment and we have no garage. My wife's Golf came with winter tires and rims, so I store those in the small shed. A shop is storing my winters and summers in the off season.

I would love to run 255/285 combo, but on my registration the listed tire size is 245/265 and that's the only size any tire shop around here is willing to put on. It's quite restrictive.

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If the track happens to be the Nurburgring then often the street regulations apply, for Touristen fahrten it is considered a private toll road and street regulations strictly apply and many trackdays also require more "street-legal" set ups to lower insurance costs.
True. Most clubs around here will not allow you to wear slicks. 200 tread wear rated semi slicks are the most aggressive tires allowed. I've seen this rule with 2 different clubs now running at Nordschleife and Hockenheimring. And this is not Turistenfahren, it's private track days too.
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      09-01-2019, 07:56 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
I have only one set of wheels for the M2 and I go between winters and summers. Winters are required here between November and March. So since I have to wear a summer tire anyway might as well have a 200 rated semi slick.

We are renting a house here while on assignment and we have no garage. My wife's Golf came with winter tires and rims, so I store those in the small shed. A shop is storing my winters and summers in the off season.

I would love to run 255/285 combo, but on my registration the listed tire size is 245/265 and that's the only size any tire shop around here is willing to put on. It's quite restrictive.
I had no idea that was the case over there. RE71 would definitely shine in that role. Are they as strict on modifications to the rest of car there?
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      09-02-2019, 02:12 AM   #81
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I had no idea that was the case over there. RE71 would definitely shine in that role. Are they as strict on modifications to the rest of car there?
Yes, TUV which is the accreditation certification agency picks everything apart during inspections. You need to get your car certified every 2-3 years, and anything non OEM or without prior TUV approval must come off.

I really think this is a large part of why parts for German cars are more expensive than others. Any part developed must also go through TUV approval process which takes time, paperwork, testing and money.
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