[paradocs98]

The APEX EC-7 wheels finally arrived last week, and I was able to get them installed on the M2C, along with a Bimmerworld wheel stud kit. The wheels in anthracite look great against the HS paint. I'm looking forward to getting some miles on this setup. The stud kit installation was a bit of a project--more than I had expected from past experience with other stud kits. Video posted of the process. Enjoy watching me stumble my way through it.

[2020M2Competition]

Good stuff

BTW, sweet lift

[speedsnice]

Just watched it before finding the thread. It looks great and I like the license plate “F87 S55” I have “S55 M2” myself and I am in New York as well.

[Raptor911]

Not having the right socket size can be frustrating. I found this company a few years ago >> https://www.gpsocket.com/

They have some really nice kits. For example kit 1326MD (deep socket) is 26 pieces starting from 10mm - 36mm and it never skips a size. I also have the same in a reg socket "1326M".

You will never have to worry about not having the right socket size.

https://www.gpsocket.com/ has some really nice socket sets that are complete. Most socket kits goes up to 19mm and stop.

[Fenerbahce]

Wheels look great! I think you're one of the few who have installed these wheels/tires on an otherwise stock car (no spacers, no camber plates, stock suspension). Once you've put the car through it's paces, can you comment if there are any clearance/rubbing issues in the front? I believe Apex indicated that some negative camber in the front may be required, but hopefully that is not the case for those who want to keep the suspension stock.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by VTBoss302

Good stuff

BTW, sweet lift

Thanks. It’s been a big help.

Originally Posted by speedsnice

Just watched it before finding the thread. It looks great and I like the license plate “F87 S55” I have “S55 M2” myself and I am in New York as well.

Originally Posted by Raptor911

Not having the right socket size can be frustrating. I found this company a few years ago >> https://www.gpsocket.com/

They have some really nice kits. For example kit 1326MD (deep socket) is 26 pieces starting from 10mm - 36mm and it never skips a size. I also have the same in a reg socket "1326M".

You will never have to worry about not having the right socket size.

https://www.gpsocket.com/ has some really nice socket sets that are complete. Most socket kits goes up to 19mm and stop.

Great recommendation!

Originally Posted by Fenerbahce

Wheels look great! I think you're one of the few who have installed these wheels/tires on an otherwise stock car (no spacers, no camber plates, stock suspension). Once you've put the car through it's paces, can you comment if there are any clearance/rubbing issues in the front? I believe Apex indicated that some negative camber in the front may be required, but hopefully that is not the case for those who want to keep the suspension stock.

Will do. So far, zero clearance issues.

[ZPrime]

There's absolutely no need to torque the two nuts together to any specified torque value... you just need to get them "gutentight" so the inner nut binds against the outer one so you can then turn the stud using the outer nut.

I just use two decent-sized crescent wrenches and snug them together. Then to get them apart, hold the inner nut with one wrench, set the other one about 180 opposed, and whack the end of the wrench with a palm, which should break them, and the wrench will then inevitably spin downward and either fall off and hit your foot, or will spin some other way and possibly whack the brake caliper...

When using actual wheel nuts for this, it also isn't generally too much of a problem if the "tip" of one nut hits against the end of the other nut, because the very tip of the nut doesn't really do anything to hold the wheel in place. The majority of the force is distributed over the acorn or cone-shaped face of the nut pressing against the corresponding face on the wheel. The actual "tip" of the nut doesn't touch anything, because it's inside the hole on the wheel itself (along with the stud).

[paradocs98]

^^ Love the flying wrench visual, ZPrime. I did notice that it was necessary to get the two mounting nuts secured to each other at a minimum of 70-75 ft-lbs in order to be able to torque the stud into the hub at 70-80 ft-lbs without the two nuts slipping on each other. I guess that makes sense. Using two crescent wrenches to successfully secure the nuts together must get them to at least 70-75 ft-lbs, then.

The explanation of distributing wheel-mounting force across the “acorn” shoulder/face of the nut makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that!

[ZPrime]

Yeah, when you use a pair of wrenches and you can oppose them against each other, you can obviously generate a fair bit of force between them with both arms (instead of needing the larger lever arm of a BigAss Torque Wrench[TM])

Torquing the studs themselves to 75-80 ft-lbs also seems incredibly high to me.
When you're torquing down a stud with no load on it, you don't want to over-stretch the threads on either the hub or the stud itself. A vendor that I trust, Apex (well-known for their wheels around here!) gives a value of 24-25 ft-lbs for their stud install instructions (PDF file). They also then provide a different (lower) nut torque for holding the wheels on, and they give an explanation as to why it is lower than when using the normal wheel bolts.

That Apex PDF is probably one of the best and most thorough stud installation documents I've ever seen, although I disagree on one point. I'm not a fan of using loctite / permatex on studs. They should hold fine as long as you torque them properly during install. If you really want to feel "safe", then use loctite blue, and not the red stuff (which basically requires heat to remove and is a major PITA).

There's another "Apex," this one Apex Competition, sometimes known as ACS, who sells stud kits as well... their instructions only specify 15-20 ft-lbs for torquing the studs themselves.

Their web stuff seems to be pretty out of date so I'm not sure if they are still around and doing business, but back in 2012-2013 I purchased their studs and used on a VW at the time, it was quality product.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Awesome video and the car looks fantastic with Anthracite EC-7 wheels. Thank you for sharing!

We'd love to see more photos too if you have them.

--Dylan

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by ZPrime

Yeah, when you use a pair of wrenches and you can oppose them against each other, you can obviously generate a fair bit of force between them with both arms (instead of needing the larger lever arm of a BigAss Torque Wrench[TM])

Torquing the studs themselves to 75-80 ft-lbs also seems incredibly high to me.
When you're torquing down a stud with no load on it, you don't want to over-stretch the threads on either the hub or the stud itself. A vendor that I trust, Apex (well-known for their wheels around here!) gives a value of 24-25 ft-lbs for their stud install instructions (PDF file). They also then provide a different (lower) nut torque for holding the wheels on, and they give an explanation as to why it is lower than when using the normal wheel bolts.

That Apex PDF is probably one of the best and most thorough stud installation documents I've ever seen, although I disagree on one point. I'm not a fan of using loctite / permatex on studs. They should hold fine as long as you torque them properly during install. If you really want to feel "safe", then use loctite blue, and not the red stuff (which basically requires heat to remove and is a major PITA).

There's another "Apex," this one Apex Competition, sometimes known as ACS, who sells stud kits as well... their instructions only specify 15-20 ft-lbs for torquing the studs themselves.

Their web stuff seems to be pretty out of date so I'm not sure if they are still around and doing business, but back in 2012-2013 I purchased their studs and used on a VW at the time, it was quality product.

Agreed. Recommendations are all over the map for torque values of securing studs into the hub face. Bimmerworld specifies a value of 50-80 ft-lb for installation of their race and premium wheel studs. Turner Motorsport specifies only 16 ft-lb for installation using the Allen-keyed tips of their studs. I trust both--they both are well-established companies with many years of experience in racing. The Bimmerworld studs have a dry threadlocker pre-applied, while the Turner studs call for a drop of Loctite red to be applied to each during installation. Not sure if the difference in the threadlocker strengths accounts for the difference in installation torque values. And for a third data point, MSI Racing out of North Carolina makes what are arguably the highest-quality wheel studs on the market. They supply to NASCAR and IMSA sportscar teams. They recommend around 20-25 ft-lb for installation of their studs into the hub, with a drop of threadlocker. In the past when I've had the MSI studs replaced with a fresh set on a 991 Carrera S, my shop has had to use a torch to heat them to release the threadlocker, just as you mentioned.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexRaceParts

Awesome video and the car looks fantastic with Anthracite EC-7 wheels. Thank you for sharing!

We'd love to see more photos too if you have them.

--Dylan

Thanks--will work on it when I get the car clean!

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by paradocs98

Agreed. Recommendations are all over the map for torque values of securing studs into the hub face. Bimmerworld specifies a value of 50-80 ft-lb for installation of their race and premium wheel studs. Turner Motorsport specifies only 16 ft-lb for installation using the Allen-keyed tips of their studs. I trust both--they both are well-established companies with many years of experience in racing. The Bimmerworld studs have a dry threadlocker pre-applied, while the Turner studs call for a drop of Loctite red to be applied to each during installation. Not sure if the difference in the threadlocker strengths accounts for the difference in installation torque values. And for a third data point, MSI Racing out of North Carolina makes what are arguably the highest-quality wheel studs on the market. They supply to NASCAR and IMSA sportscar teams. They recommend around 20-25 ft-lb for installation of their studs into the hub, with a drop of threadlocker. In the past when I've had the MSI studs replaced with a fresh set on a 991 Carrera S, my shop has had to use a torch to heat them to release the threadlocker, just as you mentioned.

I would not use red loctite if you ever plan on getting the studs off without a torch. I used blue, and had a cross threaded stud I had to remove. It was a pain in the ass to get off.

Loctite red would be near impossible.

Not to mention they recommend replacing the studs yearly if you track your car quite a bit. That's probably overly paranoid, but you likely will need to replace one or more of them over the life of the vehicle.