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      09-12-2019, 05:03 PM   #1
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M235IR Catless Downpipe for M2?

Any M2 Owners think about buying the M235IR catless downpipe to help keep that factory warranty they worry about?
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      09-12-2019, 05:06 PM   #2
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Any M2 Owners think about buying the M235IR catless downpipe to help keep that factory warranty they worry about?
Bmw factory racing parts (m235ir included) don't include warranties.
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      09-12-2019, 05:09 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SM2 View Post
Any M2 Owners think about buying the M235IR catless downpipe to help keep that factory warranty they worry about?
Bmw factory racing parts (m235ir included) don't include warranties.
Just learned that, that's unfortunate.
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      09-12-2019, 05:30 PM   #4
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I don’t understand people that add down pipes to their M cars. It completely defeats the smog system on the car and is illegal in most states for road use.
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      09-12-2019, 05:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SM2 View Post
Just learned that, that's unfortunate.
Yeah it is unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I don’t understand people that add down pipes to their M cars. It completely defeats the smog system on the car and is illegal in most states for road use.
Because some individuals (myself included) are seeking to push the performance limit to it's absolute edge, and smog/emission systems are a significant draw back that must be eliminated to achieve the goal. Plus catted downpipes melt and jam up on intense track usage, which is another issue with emission systems for performance orientated builds. I guess at the end of the day it comes down to each individual owner and what they are willing to do, like i'm absolutely insane and will spend upwards of $3K on a water injection system that yields extremely minimal gains in terms of iat's but to me that small decrease in temperature is more than worth the fee. Or I'll spend $8K on suspension components for as little as a few tenths of a second off a lap time (large under exaggeration) but again to me that is more than worth it.

In regards to legality that is up to the individual end user and I will not comment on that part.
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      09-12-2019, 06:37 PM   #6
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I don’t understand people that add down pipes to their M cars. It completely defeats the smog system on the car and is illegal in most states for road use.
Just because you don't see the merit in something doesn't mean no one else does.
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      09-12-2019, 06:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bmwm2nyc View Post
Just because you don't see the merit in something doesn't mean no one else does.
Not that I donít see the merit just donít know why you would want to brake the law and void your engine and smog warranty unless it was a track only car.
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      09-12-2019, 07:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bmwm2nyc View Post
Just because you don't see the merit in something doesn't mean no one else does.
Not that I don't see the merit just don't know why you would want to brake the law and void your engine and smog warranty unless it was a track only car.
I not sure about the legality of an aftermarket downpipe but I do know installing one voids your entire powertrain & emission section of your warranty coverage.

In fact, some dealers would strait up refuse to work on a vehicle with an aftermarket downpipe, if the problem seems reasonably related to the modification.

Also, all major emission control devices and ancillaries (catalyst, turbos, ECU, etc) are extended for up to 8 years or 80,000 miles mandatory manufactures coverage.

So you're pretty much throwing that extended coverage out the window by tampering with the catalyst.


.
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Last edited by Poochie; 09-12-2019 at 08:09 PM..
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      09-12-2019, 11:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I not sure about the legality of an aftermarket downpipe but I do know installing one voids your entire powertrain & emission section of your warranty coverage.

In fact, some dealers would strait up refuse to work on a vehicle with an aftermarket downpipe, if the problem seems reasonably related to the modification.

Also, all major emission control devices and ancillaries (catalyst, turbos, ECU, etc) are extended for up to 8 years or 80,000 miles mandatory manufactures coverage.

So you're pretty much throwing that extended coverage out the window by tampering with the catalyst.


.
Well it actually can't legally void your warranty unless the part was deemed to have directly caused the issue, you guys in America have the magnuson moss warranty act to thank for that, for Canadians it's the consumer protection act. So likely they can't really deny warranty for anything due to a downpipe, since the downpipe is just a hollow piece of metal, it's the tune that comes with the downpipe that will likely cause some issues.

In my opinion if you want to mod the car you have to be prepared to accept the risks associated with said modifications and not depend on the warranty for replacements, and that being said that is generally the mindset of most enthusiasts. Again this all comes down to risk tolerance in the endless search for performance, some people are able to tolerate said risk some are not.

An 8 year extended warranty is pretty much useless if it pertains to parts that limit performance, why would you want to replace a catalytic converter if the whole point was to delete it to gain performance. I highly doubt a turbo is covered under the warranty as it has nothing to do with the emissions system, if a turbo is covered so should the cylinder head, it's pretty much the same logic if you think a turbo is covered then everything that has to do with the exhaust gas must be covered. If that was the case every N54 guy should have had their turbos replaced for waste gate rattles up until 2018. Either way turbo warranty for 8 years to a serious enthusiast is already way too long as it would have already been upgraded. Ecu I doubt it, as long as it doesn't throw a fault code for the emission system like O2 sensors or obd2 readiness then it won't apply for that extended warranty.

Likely this emissions control device warranty only applies to the catalytic converter and O2 sensors.

So in essence if you're willing to get a downpipe for performance the warranty means nothing to you.
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      09-12-2019, 11:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Not that I donít see the merit just donít know why you would want to brake the law and void your engine and smog warranty unless it was a track only car.
Well most performance modifications that are not CARB certified are technically illegal just as an FYI.

For some countries like Australia they have smog testing and engineered road worthy tests, so you could run high flow catalytic converters and still be able to pass smog and be perfectly road legal.

But I can't comment on why some people disregard smog laws.
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      09-12-2019, 11:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post


.
Well it actually can't legally void your warranty unless the part was deemed to have directly caused the issue, you guys in America have the magnuson moss warranty act
Let me ask you a question; when the dealer finds your illegal downpipe and rightfully tells you go kick rocks and you scream "Magnuson Moss!" Which then they ask you leave the premises..

What's the next move?

The dealer can do whatever they want, sure you can litigate but prepare to spend triple the cost towards useless lawyers.. I'm sure when the judge hears you tampered with a federally mandated emission control device, that will win you a lot of points.

I'm not a tree-hugger and I couldn't care less about the rules but facts is facts, take your vehicle in with an aftermarket downpipe installed and they will outright refuse to cover anything remotely related, under the manufacture warranty.

The chart below applies only in some US states but it shows the turbocharger falls under the extended emission coverage:
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Last edited by Poochie; 09-12-2019 at 11:54 PM..
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      09-13-2019, 01:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Let me ask you a question; when the dealer finds your illegal downpipe and rightfully tells you go kick rocks and you scream "Magnuson Moss!" Which then they ask you leave the premises..

What's the next move?

The dealer can do whatever they want, sure you can litigate but prepare to spend triple the cost towards useless lawyers.. I'm sure when the judge hears you tampered with a federally mandated emission control device, that will win you a lot of points.

I'm not a tree-hugger and I couldn't care less about the rules but facts is facts, take your vehicle in with an aftermarket downpipe installed and they will outright refuse to cover anything remotely related, under the manufacture warranty.

The chart below applies only in some US states but it shows the turbocharger falls under the extended emission coverage:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Let me ask you a question; when the dealer finds your illegal downpipe and rightfully tells you go kick rocks and you scream "Magnuson Moss!" Which then they ask you leave the premises..

What's the next move?

The dealer can do whatever they want, sure you can litigate but prepare to spend triple the cost towards useless lawyers.. I'm sure when the judge hears you tampered with a federally mandated emission control device, that will win you a lot of points.

I'm not a tree-hugger and I couldn't care less about the rules but facts is facts, take your vehicle in with an aftermarket downpipe installed and they will outright refuse to cover anything remotely related, under the manufacture warranty.

The chart below applies only in some US states but it shows the turbocharger falls under the extended emission coverage:
Ok first off let's get this straight, I 100% agree with you that if someone were to modify their car they should be ready to pay out of pocket for any damages that were to occur due to said modifications. I myself make sure once I modify my cars I take full responsibility for any issues. But I do not agree with the notion that as soon as you modify the car the dealership has every right to deny warranty on everything, for example a catback exhaust which has nothing to do with power increase just noise increase and a dealership declining any drivetrain warranty if not caused by the exaust. Ex 1 an invalid decline of warranty: you have a catback exhaust without any defects (valves aren't broken restricting exhaust flow) and you have a transmission issue and the dealer says "you have an exhaust, no warranty for you". Ex 2 a valid decline of warranty: your catback exhaust has internal baffles or valves that were stuck shut blocking exhaust flow and your engine blows up, no warranty there. But even in this case they can't deny your transmission warranty since there is no relation to the exhaust being blocked. Overall for a downpipe by iteself no tune drive train warranty can not be denied unless it was caused by the downpipe (legalities aside), most of the time downpipes are acompanied by a power adding tune and this is where drive train warranties are denied and rightfully so, but they can't deny warranty for electrical faults not related to said tune and downpipe.

So back to your points, if you asked me what my next move would be, it clearly be legal matters, or depending on how your law works filing a complaint with consumer reports, if the issue wasn't caused by the downpipe, or move to a different dealership. If it was caused by the downpipe then suck it up and pay for it yourself. Legal fees depend on if you're going to use a specialty lawyer or not, or if you file a direct complaint for investigation. Like I said if you're willing to modify the vehicle you have to be willing to accept any risk going forward, but I'm not willing to be pushed around by imbeciles without any car knowledge who are too lazy to honor a warranty claim and blame everything on aftermarket parts.

In regards to legality of said modification that varies from location to location, and use of said modifications (off road, private roads etc). For me I do believe in protecting the environment which is why all my road cars (including my m2) have factory catalytic downpipes in them and are not modified in anyway shape or form. But for my track cars they are all heavily modified, and that is slated to happen for my m2 soon (after the warranty is done since all my mods will void the warranty, and I want to test the car stock for any factory defects before I end up paying out of pocket. I did not wait with my e46 m3 and that's when I payed for all of it's defects rod bearings, subframe, throttle body, vanos all withing the warranty period because as I said I will take responsibility (as should all enthusiasts who mod imo) for any issues that may arise due to my own modifications).

I don't know which dealerships you go to but my area is subaru heavy (engines blow all the time due to weak ring lands and poor factory tunes), the dealers see modded subarus come in all the time and still will replace the engines free of charge under warranty as long as the modifications don't influence the engine failure. Samething happened with E92 m3's and rod bearing failures, individuals with catback exhausts were still able to seek warranties, or stage 1 tuned cars with differential issues. Literally dealerships here sell supercharged frs's and even explain if an issue were to arise and it was related to the supercharger no warranty will be given, but if it wasn't due to the supercharger then it would be fine, in this case most of the power train would be voided since it is a power upgrade but they can't deny all of the vehicle's warranty.


I didn't know the turbo was warrantied in the US, but that may not be true for every country. Overall the emissions warranty would be irrelevant if you were going to get an after market downpipe anyways like I said before.
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      10-09-2019, 06:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I don't understand people that add down pipes to their M cars. It completely defeats the smog system on the car and is illegal in most states for road use.
Because the sound will be much improved!

I drive with a catless wagner downpipe and it's sound perfect for me! A lot better than another exhaust.
And if I want, it's loud as hell


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      10-09-2019, 06:54 PM   #14
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Because the sound will be much improved!

I drive with a catless wagner downpipe and it's sound perfect for me! A lot better than another exhaust.
And if I want, it's loud as hell


Sound maybe better but an illegal change in the US.
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      10-09-2019, 09:23 PM   #15
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I donít understand people that add down pipes to their M cars. It completely defeats the smog system on the car and is illegal in most states for road use.
You must be new to the tuning world.
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      10-09-2019, 09:38 PM   #16
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You must be new to the tuning world.
+1


Life is too short to stay stock.
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      10-09-2019, 10:15 PM   #17
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You must be new to the tuning world.
No. I have been a BMW owner since I bought my new 2002 in 1971.
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      10-10-2019, 09:05 AM   #18
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You must be new to the tuning world.
No. I have been a BMW owner since I bought my new 2002 in 1971.
You missed the point. Owning a vehicle and partaking in the tuning world are different things
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      10-10-2019, 09:18 AM   #19
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You missed the point. Owning a vehicle and partaking in the tuning world are different things
You missed the point. Very few of my BMWs have been stock. Lots have had Dinan tunes and upgrades. They didn't make my car illegal to drive on the road.
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      10-10-2019, 09:20 AM   #20
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You missed the point. Owning a vehicle and partaking in the tuning world are different things
You missed the point. Very few of my BMWs have been stock. Lots have had Dinan tunes and upgrades. They didn't make my car illegal to drive on the road.
Ok...but your previous statement didn't portray that at all lol. Words. How do they work?
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      10-11-2019, 10:15 AM   #21
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You missed the point. Very few of my BMWs have been stock. Lots have had Dinan tunes and upgrades. They didn't make my car illegal to drive on the road.
You don't think those Dinan tunes don't cause your car to emit more emissions than the car was designed from the factory? The point is that owners of turbocharged vehicles from every brand have been installing aftermarket downpipes for decades. In this day and age downpipes are one of the few mods that leads to legit power gains on a stock turbocharger. Exhausts and intakes are strictly noise/styling mods. Personally I'm not a fan of going catless but if some people want to do that then that's their decision. As for smog and legality thing it's one car and one person's personal choice and it's about as illegal as jaywalking. People do it all the time and nobody goes to prison for it.
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      10-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
You don't think those Dinan tunes don't cause your car to emit more emissions than the car was designed from the factory? The point is that owners of turbocharged vehicles from every brand have been installing aftermarket downpipes for decades. In this day and age downpipes are one of the few mods that leads to legit power gains on a stock turbocharger. Exhausts and intakes are strictly noise/styling mods. Personally I'm not a fan of going catless but if some people want to do that then that's their decision. As for smog and legality thing it's one car and one person's personal choice and it's about as illegal as jaywalking. People do it all the time and nobody goes to prison for it.
No one goes to prison but it is a $250 fix it fine in Washington state.
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