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      10-04-2019, 09:10 PM   #1
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Square track wheel setup is : Two thumbs up

Hi All.

I know this was on my mind when deciding on a new track setup. After my first track day, I can say with certainty that square setup is really balanced. How can I be so sure? Because I had a super easy time driving the car at the limit, effortlessly getting the car out of minor/ playful power overseer slides coming out of corners . I know that doesn't mean much in general, but I'm not a great driver, and I'm running with traction control off. No significant under or oversteer. Also, my car is full bolt on stage 2....

Anyway, I just wanted to voice my endorsement for a square setup for those who are not sure which way to go. I love it, and prefer it to my street staggered setup.

The wheels are apex 18x10 and tires are 275/35 Bridgestones.

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      10-04-2019, 09:27 PM   #2
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While I do also enjoy the square setup, it is worth cautioning that it can cause problems with the traction control system if you're still using it.

The square setup is good but depending on track may require that you run in MDM/Sport+ or TC full off. The square setup really does a number on the traction control system as it throws off the tire diameter ratio front-to-rear.

Driving at Mosport/CTMP in Toronto really needs Euro-MDM or TC-fully-off, US-MDM/Sport+ is way too intrusive. I've also done Calabogie near Ottawa and there US MDM wasn't as bad.
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      10-04-2019, 09:40 PM   #3
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I’ve been enjoying the square setup as well, especially as I’ve made the transition to DSC Off late this season.

For DSC On, as long as I get some miles on the square setup, the car has adapted and it’s been fine. No notable change in DSC intervention between square and staggered. However, one time this summer I drove on my street tires in the OEM stagger to the track, then switched to square track wheels/tires at the track. The first two sessions weren’t fun as the computers adapted again. Used up a ton of the Pagids that were on the car. By the third session, things seemed to get back to normal.
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      10-04-2019, 10:58 PM   #4
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Good point about the traction control.

I drove 120 miles to/from the track and haven't really noticed any issues, but wasn't doing anything crazy.

On the track, traction OFF made a huge difference for me, after my instructor pushed me in the right direction earlier this year. My times are better and I'm having a lot more fun.
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      10-05-2019, 08:56 PM   #5
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Square setup is a win / win. You get so much more longevity out of the tires, being able to rotate across all four corners. Staggered may be fractionally quicker, but not worth the extra tire costs, IMO.

This car is excellently balanced - stock, staggered, or square. Assuming you have some basic car control skills (e.g. you know how not to spin a go-kart) you should be fine with everything off.
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      10-06-2019, 10:58 PM   #6
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Staggered set-up

Used both staggered and square set up, and found the staggered to be much more favorable. I run my M2 stock, so 255 is max on width if you run square. The M2 needs more than that in the rear. Am currently running 255 front and 285 rear, which works out very well.
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      10-07-2019, 12:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
Used both staggered and square set up, and found the staggered to be much more favorable. I run my M2 stock, so 255 is max on width if you run square. The M2 needs more than that in the rear. Am currently running 255 front and 285 rear, which works out very well.
Definitely would not run 255 in the back...sounds like a bad idea.

My "stock" setup is also 255/285, which I believe creates pretty bad understeer, and that just doesn't work for me.
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      10-07-2019, 04:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
Used both staggered and square set up, and found the staggered to be much more favorable. I run my M2 stock, so 255 is max on width if you run square. The M2 needs more than that in the rear. Am currently running 255 front and 285 rear, which works out very well.
Iím also on 255/285. Some corners take a little patience to stay out of understeer and rotate the car (I imagine Iíll get better at that over time). Square setup would make this a little easier, and Iíd definite appreciate getting more life out of my tires. Might try square setup in the near future, but the staggered setup is a lot of fun, too.
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      10-07-2019, 10:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bi0hazard View Post
Good point about the traction control.

I drove 120 miles to/from the track and haven't really noticed any issues, but wasn't doing anything crazy.

On the track, traction OFF made a huge difference for me, after my instructor pushed me in the right direction earlier this year. My times are better and I'm having a lot more fun.
On track, I honestly feel the car has a much better "feel" with all of the nannies off. For some reason I can really sense and feel the rear diff working as opposed to much much less of that "feel" with some nannies on.
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      10-08-2019, 11:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bi0hazard View Post
Hi All.

I know this was on my mind when deciding on a new track setup. After my first track day, I can say with certainty that square setup is really balanced. How can I be so sure? Because I had a super easy time driving the car at the limit, effortlessly getting the car out of minor/ playful power overseer slides coming out of corners . I know that doesn't mean much in general, but I'm not a great driver, and I'm running with traction control off. No significant under or oversteer. Also, my car is full bolt on stage 2....

Anyway, I just wanted to voice my endorsement for a square setup for those who are not sure which way to go. I love it, and prefer it to my street staggered setup.

The wheels are apex 18x10 and tires are 275/35 Bridgestones.

B-=
That's awesome that you found a good square setup that works for you. Definitely a lot of positives to being square. Mind sharing what offset the wheels are & any spacers if needed? Also what suspension are you running & camber? Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashFL View Post
Iím also on 255/285. Some corners take a little patience to stay out of understeer and rotate the car (I imagine Iíll get better at that over time). Square setup would make this a little easier, and Iíd definite appreciate getting more life out of my tires. Might try square setup in the near future, but the staggered setup is a lot of fun, too.
Yeah definitely both fun. Little more nimble with square - but a little stagger still can still rotate pretty well too. I like the feel of 20mm stagger - 275/295 - at the track. Good turn in, very grippy, and can put the power down pretty well. Both definitely have their benefits.
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      10-08-2019, 05:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
That's awesome that you found a good square setup that works for you. Definitely a lot of positives to being square. Mind sharing what offset the wheels are & any spacers if needed? Also what suspension are you running & camber? Thanks!



Yeah definitely both fun. Little more nimble with square - but a little stagger still can still rotate pretty well too. I like the feel of 20mm stagger - 275/295 - at the track. Good turn in, very grippy, and can put the power down pretty well. Both definitely have their benefits.

I'm using 18 x 10 wheels with 33 offset. The front has -2.9 camber. I am using a 12mm spacers. Fit is perfect! This is all in the Apex fitment guide.

https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide

The camber and spacer are needed to fit a 275 tire in the front. I don't like spacers, but it's necessary. The camber plates have multiple benefits, even if you're staggered.
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      10-09-2019, 09:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bi0hazard View Post
I'm using 18 x 10 wheels with 33 offset. The front has -2.9 camber. I am using a 12mm spacers. Fit is perfect! This is all in the Apex fitment guide.

https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide

The camber and spacer are needed to fit a 275 tire in the front. I don't like spacers, but it's necessary. The camber plates have multiple benefits, even if you're staggered.
I have 18 x 9.5 ET 28 on the front & have to use a 7mm spacer also - clears but very tight with Ohlins R&T. Have you upgraded the dampers or still on oem? Agree with you on the spacers, never been a fan of them either. 9.5 is not my preferred wheel for 275, would rather 10 or 10.5 - but I think I'm at the limit with the spring perch on these dampers. Still handled well so can definitely work with it - but I bet that 10" square setup you have was a lot of fun around the track.

Texas it looks like - heading to COTA this weekend?
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      10-09-2019, 12:52 PM   #13
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OG Shark:

I'm on stock suspension and I'm probably going to keep it stock. My car is 3 years old and I'm on the lookout for something new (waiting to see what upcoming M4 looks like!), so I think I'm done sinking money into it.

Would love to drive COTA, but I'm too lazy to drive down there... So many events in DFW. I'm hooked on autoX currently; I looove the competition down to a millisecond.
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