[turnsignalslol]

I live in California where it can either get pretty hot or pretty cold so I'm wondering if 0w40 or 5w40 is the best oil to use basically all year round.

By "pretty cold" I mean around 45-50 degrees and by "pretty hot" I mean well into the 100s.

Thanks

[chris719]

Originally Posted by turnsignalslol

I live in California where it can either get pretty hot or pretty cold so I'm wondering if 0w40 or 5w40 is the best oil to use basically all year round.

By "pretty cold" I mean around 45-50 degrees and by "pretty hot" I mean well into the 100s.

Thanks

I'd say there is no practical difference for you in terms of viscosity. At operating temperature they will be on the SAE 40 curve. The 0 is only significantly thinner than the 5 at temps well below freezing.

The real difference is, there are no longer any 0W-40s that meet BMW LL-01 spec after the last revision. If you are under warranty, you should pick a 5W-40 that meets BMW LL-01 spec due to stringent oxidation requirements. If you aren't under warranty, you can use whatever you want. The 5W-40 may also have slightly better shear stability, but could depend on the exact oils being discussed. Member edycol here is very knowledgeable on oil. You can check out the BITOG forum as well if you are curious.

[Track/S]

You won't have a problem with either one.
I am using 0w40 since 2019 without bmw approval ll01, street/track use, and I will continue with this viscosity.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by turnsignalslol

I live in California where it can either get pretty hot or pretty cold so I'm wondering if 0w40 or 5w40 is the best oil to use basically all year round.

By "pretty cold" I mean around 45-50 degrees and by "pretty hot" I mean well into the 100s.

Thanks

It depends which 0W40.
I can't see on my phone which model subforum this is. I got tagged so I just opened it.
If you have B generation engine or N20/26, you really want to stick to approved LL01 or LL04 oils. The reason is that in 2018 BMW moved testing to N20 platform and it all approvals have specific timing chain tests for new generation engines.
So, if that is the case, I would go Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 or Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2.

If it is N5X engine, you have more options as long as oil has MB229.5 approval. 0W40 oils are hit or miss. Mobile 0W40? Excellent choice. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W40? It is A OK. Why?
To get 0W oil you really need light base stock. To get 40 grade from that base stock, you need lot of viscosity improvers. Problem with that is shearing. You need less VI in 5W40 than 0W40 all things being equal. Good example is PPE 5W40 and 0W40. They have pretty much same base, but 5W40 has less VI, which mean it will be more shear resistant.
Mobil1 0W40 is different animal. Base stock is light, but it is highly sophisticated. It is mix of PAO, GTL, esters, AN and Group III. That means to achieve desired HTHS (which is what really matters, not grade per se) they utilize less VI.
In your case, you don't need 0W40. Actually., when it comes to cold starting, 5WXX will do in lower 48 states. I live 1 1/2hrs from coldest basin in lower 48, and often ski there and sometimes I have 5W40, like now (PPE) and sometimes 0W40. Unless you are starting vehicle below -20, you should not worry.
Ambient temperature is also irrelevant. Your oil temperature is maintained by cooling system. What could have impact is altitude as cooling system gets compromised with higher altitude (heat exchange is not as effective due to less air density). But, I tracked my BMW hitting 300f oil temperature with Mobil1 0W40, and car still drives like a champ.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by edycol

I tracked my BMW hitting 300f oil temperature with Mobil1 0W40, and car still drives like a champ.

In which BMW did you reach that temp? Don't try this on a N57 engine because you will melt the rod bearings.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

In which BMW did you reach that temp? Don't try this on a N57 engine because you will melt the rod bearings.

N52.
Before I had oil cooler installed from N55.
That is complements of track being at 5,000ft.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by edycol

N52.
Before I had oil cooler installed from N55.
That is complements of track being at 5,000ft.

It seems this engine is not afraid of oil temp

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Prodrive_X

It seems this engine is not afraid of oil temp

300f is limp mode. So who knows where is the limit 😂

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

300f is limp mode. So who knows where is the limit 😂

300F is red limp mode which is power cut, 270F is yellow limp mode which is timing being pulled.

But it looks like your car was saving itself lol.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

300F is red limp mode which is power cut, 270F is yellow limp mode which is timing being pulled.

But it looks like your car was saving itself lol.

Oh yeah, I passed 270f limp mode. This was power cut.
Mobil1 0W40 FS. Ran it 5k in the sump.

With N55 oil cooler I don't pass 245f anymore even when ambient temperature is above 100f in this altitude.

[Twonice2485]

Originally Posted by edycol

It depends which 0W40.
I can't see on my phone which model subforum this is. I got tagged so I just opened it.
If you have B generation engine or N20/26, you really want to stick to approved LL01 or LL04 oils. The reason is that in 2018 BMW moved testing to N20 platform and it all approvals have specific timing chain tests for new generation engines.
So, if that is the case, I would go Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 or Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2.

If it is N5X engine, you have more options as long as oil has MB229.5 approval. 0W40 oils are hit or miss. Mobile 0W40? Excellent choice. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W40? It is A OK. Why?
To get 0W oil you really need light base stock. To get 40 grade from that base stock, you need lot of viscosity improvers. Problem with that is shearing. You need less VI in 5W40 than 0W40 all things being equal. Good example is PPE 5W40 and 0W40. They have pretty much same base, but 5W40 has less VI, which mean it will be more shear resistant.
Mobil1 0W40 is different animal. Base stock is light, but it is highly sophisticated. It is mix of PAO, GTL, esters, AN and Group III. That means to achieve desired HTHS (which is what really matters, not grade per se) they utilize less VI.
In your case, you don't need 0W40. Actually., when it comes to cold starting, 5WXX will do in lower 48 states. I live 1 1/2hrs from coldest basin in lower 48, and often ski there and sometimes I have 5W40, like now (PPE) and sometimes 0W40. Unless you are starting vehicle below -20, you should not worry.
Ambient temperature is also irrelevant. Your oil temperature is maintained by cooling system. What could have impact is altitude as cooling system gets compromised with higher altitude (heat exchange is not as effective due to less air density). But, I tracked my BMW hitting 300f oil temperature with Mobil1 0W40, and car still drives like a champ.

What oil and weight do you recommend for the s55 engine in NYC weather with a full upgraded cooling system, from oil cooler with upgraded lines AN fittings to heat exchanger, and an air to water cooler upgrade if that helps?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Twonice2485

What oil and weight do you recommend for the s55 engine in NYC weather with a full upgraded cooling system, from oil cooler with upgraded lines AN fittings to heat exchanger, and an air to water cooler upgrade if that helps?

Warranty or no warranty?
If warranty, go LL01 FE BMW TPT 0W30.
But, you did lots of modifications so I guess no warranty? I would go Castrol Edge 0W30. Available on Amazon at $55 for 5qt. Castrol Edge 0W40 and then Mobil1 0W40 would be my next choice. Motul X-Max 0W40 is also good.
These 0WXX oils cannot be approved for LL01 and LL04 since 2018. But older generations like N/S55 are ok running these 0W30/40 oils as long as they have MB229.5 approval.

[Twonice2485]

Originally Posted by edycol

Warranty or no warranty?
If warranty, go LL01 FE BMW TPT 0W30.
But, you did lots of modifications so I guess no warranty? I would go Castrol Edge 0W30. Available on Amazon at $55 for 5qt. Castrol Edge 0W40 and then Mobil1 0W40 would be my next choice. Motul X-Max 0W40 is also good.
These 0WXX oils cannot be approved for LL01 and LL04 since 2018. But older generations like N/S55 are ok running these 0W30/40 oils as long as they have MB229.5 approval.

Thank you, I think I'll go with the 0w-40 motul I know it's 100% synthetic

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Twonice2485

Thank you, I think I'll go with the 0w-40 motul I know it's 100% synthetic

It is not.
It is on much lower side of synthetic base stock.
Pour point is -45. That indicates Group III stock.
Castrol Edge 0W30 or old Edge 0W40 (API SN), as well as Mobil1 0W40 have pour point -60. Once pour point is below -50, you can safely say there is some PAO. -60? We talk serious stuff. Byt, there is no 100% synthetic oil. You have to add other base stocks to improve solubility (Group III), make it less oxidative etc.

[Twonice2485]

Originally Posted by edycol

It is not.
It is on much lower side of synthetic base stock.
Pour point is -45. That indicates Group III stock.
Castrol Edge 0W30 or old Edge 0W40 (API SN), as well as Mobil1 0W40 have pour point -60. Once pour point is below -50, you can safely say there is some PAO. -60? We talk serious stuff. Byt, there is no 100% synthetic oil. You have to add other base stocks to improve solubility (Group III), make it less oxidative etc.

I stand corrected, you really know your stuff, thank you, so when they say 100% synthetic, that isn't true then

[jefe2000]

From what I can see — if you want to stick with OEM BMW-labeled oil — 0W40 isn't an option. Looks like BMW has moved to 0W30 for our cars. I suspect that's adequate for the fairly temperate climate here in CA.

Depending on which part of CA of course, it's not like we see the dramatic and sustained high and low temps that other locations routinely experience. It gets cold, but not Midwest cold. And it gets hot, but not Arizona desert hot. Unless you live in Death Valley, I suppose.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by jefe2000

From what I can see — if you want to stick with OEM BMW-labeled oil — 0W40 isn't an option. Looks like BMW has moved to 0W30 for our cars. I suspect that's adequate for the fairly temperate climate here in CA.

Depending on which part of CA of course, it's not like we see the dramatic and sustained high and low temps that other locations routinely experience. It gets cold, but not Midwest cold. And it gets hot, but not Arizona desert hot. Unless you live in Death Valley, I suppose.

Grade is irrelevant.
BMW like other European manufacturers base their requirements on HTHS: High Temperature/High Shear. That is resistance to the temporary or permanent loss of viscosity.
So, if manual requires LL01 or LL04, that means oil has to have minimum HTHS of 3.5mpas. Those are heavy XW30 and light XW40 oils.
If we are talking LL01FE, we talk minimum HTHS of 3.0mpas. LL17FE? Minimum HTHS 2.6.
As it is indicative, FE means fuel economy.
Running LL01 or LL04 means higher HTHS which is better suited for these engines. In any engine, you can run thicker oil. Bit thicker oil will hit mpg and turbo spooling. But, gives you more margin when it comes to wear.
Problem is running oil thinner than required. So, going thicker is really not issue especially bcs. these engines run LL04 in Europe.

Also, ambient temperature doesn't affect oil temperature as much. There is enough air density at lower altitudes for cooling system to maintain appropriate temperature. However, at high altitude, like here in CO, it will definitely have an effect, even if ambient temperature is low.

[Fred Conoway]

Originally Posted by edycol

Grade is irrelevant.
BMW like other European manufacturers base their requirements on HTHS: High Temperature/High Shear. That is resistance to the temporary or permanent loss of viscosity.
So, if manual requires LL01 or LL04, that means oil has to have minimum HTHS of 3.5mpas. Those are heavy XW30 and light XW40 oils.
If we are talking LL01FE, we talk minimum HTHS of 3.0mpas. LL17FE? Minimum HTHS 2.6.
As it is indicative, FE means fuel economy.
Running LL01 or LL04 means higher HTHS which is better suited for these engines. In any engine, you can run thicker oil. Bit thicker oil will hit mpg and turbo spooling. But, gives you more margin when it comes to wear.
Problem is running oil thinner than required. So, going thicker is really not issue especially bcs. these engines run LL04 in Europe.

Also, ambient temperature doesn't affect oil temperature as much. There is enough air density at lower altitudes for cooling system to maintain appropriate temperature. However, at high altitude, like here in CO, it will definitely have an effect, even if ambient temperature is low.

Always appreciate your knowledge on these subjects of oil!

Just curious about one of the points you made; you mentioned that in any engine you can run thicker oil. I am far from an oil expert, but doesn't the oil viscosity affect components/engine systems that are sensitive to oil pressure and/or flow (VANOS units for example)? I remember hearing or seeing something second-hand with the S85 engines that running different oil grades than the one recommended for the engine could mess with the VANOS units and throw engines codes in certain cases. Any validity to this, or is this just far-fetched?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Fred Conoway

Always appreciate your knowledge on these subjects of oil!

Just curious about one of the points you made; you mentioned that in any engine you can run thicker oil. I am far from an oil expert, but doesn't the oil viscosity affect components/engine systems that are sensitive to oil pressure and/or flow (VANOS units for example)? I remember hearing or seeing something second-hand with the S85 engines that running different oil grades than the one recommended for the engine could mess with the VANOS units and throw engines codes in certain cases. Any validity to this, or is this just far-fetched?

That is why thicker oil is not problem. But, let's be clear, I am not suggesting to run 20W60 Motul 300V in M2.
Thicker oil will maintain better oil pressure under duress. In case if S85, people were running thinner oil as engine was specified for 10W60. What people were doing is experimenting with thinner oils. But running lets say 5W40 in engine specified for 10W60 is not too big of an issue. You might get a code but, nothing else will happen. 10W60 very quickly shears down to 50 or even thick 40 grade.
Problem is manufacturers are pushing thin oils due to CAFE requirements. So let's say you are running 0W20 in B58, and you decide why not in N55 or S55. Well, problem is that engines are definitely not designed for such low viscosity and oil film can wash off easily from cylinder walls, not have sufficient HTHS to keep journal bearings healthy etc. So, forget VANOS code, there are really big issues running thinner than recommended. Running thicker won't do anything as pressure stays stable even at very high temperatures.
Take into consideration that Toyota for example recommends 0W20 in 2GR-FE and 2GR-FKS engines here in the US, ACEA C3 5W30 in EU (category of LL04), and in desert Australia, 20W50!!!

[jefe2000]

For reference, this prior thread goes into a lot of the same topic. I think it's quite informative. After awhile, the thread takes a deep dive into UOAs (used oil analyses). Even if that's not of interest to the OP, the first part of the thread still seems pretty relevant:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1764786

[gmhl10]

edycol
What is your experience or opinion on running Motul 300V 5W40 for track duty on S55 engine?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by gmhl10

edycol
What is your experience or opinion on running Motul 300V 5W40 for track duty on S55 engine?

It would be excellent for track use, you can confirm via a UOA for your own use case.

But if you drive it alot on the street it would be best to switch to a more streetable oil as 300v breaks down due to oxidation far too quickly for street use. It also doesn't have the greatest additive pack for daily use.


but iirc edy should have some UOA of 300v for you to see.