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      09-19-2021, 12:26 AM   #1
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Boxster GTS4.0: Do not meet your heroes

Do not meet your heroes.

I got a chance to take the Boxster GTS4.0 on a bit of an extended test drive today and Iíll get straight to the point - I was kind of disappointed.

Looks: Iím not really a big fan of the boxster design (love the Spyder) but I thought the python green color would rock and it did. Love it. Would def buy in this color.

Cabin/Seats: Typical Porsche - solid. Otherwise same as all 718s. The seats felt tight though, and I couldnít get the side bolsters to expand enough. I am by no means portly (more on the slim side) so I found this a bit weird.

Chassis/Suspension: This is by far the trump card of the 718 generation. Itís just superb and leagues better than the M2ís. The chassis can handle even more power. However, you can tell that itís heavier than the 4 cylinder variants. Itís not bad, and the firmness is reassuring, but you do feel that itís not as sprightly. Itís a more Ďseriousí 718.

Sound: The exhaust can get loud. Really loud. Itís a good noise - better than the 4 cylinder turbos and there wasnít the high speed drone those ones have, but itís not a really great noise either. I first noticed this when I started a 718GT4 a while back but thought then it must have been me, the sound features of the dealership floor etc, - but I confirmed it today. Itís a good but not great sound. The M2 makes a more melodious, sonorous tone and itís not as loud. There was a 991.2 Carrera driving by the other day and that had a much better sound. I had to switch off sports+ in some neighborhoods cos I just felt it was too obnoxious. Iíve never had that problem in the M2.

Engine - I know itíll sound odd but this is actually where I was disappointed - mainly with the throttle response. I get that its NA and all that, but this car feels almost lethargic in the low revs. And because the noise factor is up, itís like drama without any substance until you get up in the rev range, and then it moves. Itís just today I understood the frustration with the long gearing that folks have been talking about (I had the pdk by the way). There isnít much else but noise in the low revs and then when you to where the excitement starts, youíre already past the speed limit and have to slow back down. Itís like power that you just canít use and it was frustrating. I donít know why it has to be this way. The Miata is just a 4 pot NA and is very peppy in the low revs and I think more fun than this as a result. Also, the pdk in the 718 is nowhere near as good as in the new 992s. For the 911, I would be torn between the pdk and manual, but here, definitely the manual.

All in all, this is the third time I really went into the 718 with a view to seeing if I had found the car to replace or perhaps add to the M2. And each time Iíve come away with a clear sense that the M2 is the better car - at least for me. Weirdly, the GTS4.0 is to me, the biggest conundrum of the lot. The only thing I didnít like about the 4 cylinder GTS was the sound and the drone. In the 4.0, the chassis feels like it wants to be on the road, but the engine feels like it wants to be on a track, or be a GT car which I know sounds weird - but thatís how it felt. There was something unresolved about it. One thing I will say though is that with the exhaust left in normal, itíll be a way better daily driver than the M2.

As it stands now then, the 911 is the only car that really appeals to me in the Porsche line up (the 992 Carrera S is the best car I have ever driven in my life). Itís kinda sad cos Iíve always loved and looked up to the Cayman/Boxster series.

Maybe, really, do not meet your heroes.



NB: FWIW to anyone here, I was flabbergasted by the Cayene GTS. It's an absolute stonker of a car.
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      09-20-2021, 01:15 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydert View Post
Do not meet your heroes.

......
All in all, this is the third time I really went into the 718 with a view to seeing if I had found the car to replace or perhaps add to the M2. And each time Iíve come away with a clear sense that the M2 is the better car - at least for me. Weirdly, the GTS4.0 is to me, the biggest conundrum of the lot. The only thing I didnít like about the 4 cylinder GTS was the sound and the drone. In the 4.0, the chassis feels like it wants to be on the road, but the engine feels like it wants to be on a track, or be a GT car which I know sounds weird - but thatís how it felt. There was something unresolved about it. One thing I will say though is that with the exhaust left in normal, itíll be a way better daily driver than the M2.

......
great write up!
As a previous 718 CS owner, I think you pretty much nailed it, especially with the ^bolded statement.
The problem with the chassis is that the rear is not multi-link like you get with the 718 GT4.
This makes a HUGE difference on track. the car can get very unsettled under braking especially if coming over a rise into the braking zone.
This was the reason that that I sold it after 2 yrs and why I'm now back to BMW in the M2C.
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      09-21-2021, 05:21 AM   #3
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The 4.0 liter is more of a party trick Porsche used to sell these cars to folks who would focus on the displacement. So it is not surprising about the feedback. Porsche is hedging bets since the 4.0 they've developed will be around for a while. It'll be a lot better in a few years once they open it up some over time.
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      09-21-2021, 07:08 PM   #4
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Peak TQ arrives at 5500. There's your lethargic feeling at low revs. These moderately displaced N/A engines are more fun being wrung out. Modern BMW engines are great for poking around town with their flat torque curve maxing out at very low rpms and holding onto that into the midrange. It's all about what you really prefer.
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      09-22-2021, 08:14 AM   #5
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wow this post really hits home for me

I currently have a deposit on an allocation for a CGTS 4.0.

I've had 2 Cayman 981 S's in the past.

I currently have an M2C.

I like cars with good low end torque (I think my affinity for this started way back with fox body 5.0 mustangs I had).

My preference for low end torque has showed itself over the years, one clear example being my purchase of a mx6 with a torquey 2.5 v6 over a prelude with a vtec. The prelude was better looking, had a better manual and handled better, but it was weak in the lower rev ranges compared to the 2.5 v6.

Your review makes me seriously consider whether the 4.0 GTS is the right move for me. I always felt like the 3.4 caymans had decent enough low end torque, but that was before I had an M2. it may well be that the 4.0 compared to the S55 feels like the prelude did as compared to the mx6.

sounds like I need to drive a 4.0

and I really would like to hear your review of a 992S as compared to the 4.0, the size of the 992 makes me hesitate but it's something I've thought about.
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      09-22-2021, 08:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
great write up!
As a previous 718 CS owner, I think you pretty much nailed it, especially with the ^bolded statement.
The problem with the chassis is that the rear is not multi-link like you get with the 718 GT4.
This makes a HUGE difference on track. the car can get very unsettled under braking especially if coming over a rise into the braking zone.
This was the reason that that I sold it after 2 yrs and why I'm now back to BMW in the M2C.
wow you got an M2C?

we have had a few cars in common lately and followed a somewhat similar trajectory

e86 to cayman to M2C

how do you like the M2C?
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      09-22-2021, 09:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Peak TQ arrives at 5500. There's your lethargic feeling at low revs. These moderately displaced N/A engines are more fun being wrung out. Modern BMW engines are great for poking around town with their flat torque curve maxing out at very low rpms and holding onto that into the midrange. It's all about what you really prefer.
Do you suspect that the GT4 and upcoming GT4 RS will also not have good low end torque?
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      09-22-2021, 09:38 AM   #8
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I echo some of the things you are saying in this post OP. I dipped my toe into P car ownership a couple of years ago through a new 2018 Cayman S. Obviously the handling characteristics of that car were truly sublime, and the way the car rotated and steered through a corner was telepathic. But there was also a lot that I couldn't accept, including: very sub par build quality which was a shock to me after hearing about how P cars are the best in the world, rough sounding 4cyl turbo (not an issue with the NA 4.0), and an incredibly loud cabin roar that was ever present. I am glad I scratched that itch, and maybe a 911 would have been different but I was underwhelmed overall.
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      09-22-2021, 10:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
wow you got an M2C?

we have had a few cars in common lately and followed a somewhat similar trajectory

e86 to cayman to M2C

how do you like the M2C?
It just arrived at the dealership, just waiting for them to PDI.
I just sold the Z4MC a few days ago and wasn't really planning to jump right away.
I then found out that the G87 is moving to Mexico and will be out of production for a while.
I needed something for next season; found an M2C in HS that was still in the system, so I snagged it.
BIG change for me was opting for the DCT.

I think these are going to be in really short supply with the production delays.
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      09-22-2021, 11:35 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Do you suspect that the GT4 and upcoming GT4 RS will also not have good low end torque?
Both of those are unobtainable for me so I'll never know
When you say "not good low end torque", compared to a modern turbo, yes...you're not getting that thrust at 1500 rpm. I will say this though, I never had a problem in the lower rev range when my Cayman was stock. It spun up quickly to where the meat of the powerband was.

As great as the S65 is, it has a commonly known shortfall which is lack of torque (295 lb-ft) for daily driving. I've never driven an E9x M3 but, I'd have to chalk that up to the mass of the car at roughly 3600+ lbs as being one reason. The Cayman/Boxter never had a problem with being fat so perhaps that's why only 258 lb-ft was sufficient.

I'm confident that I could daily a GT4 and not complain about the low end. Others would.
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      09-22-2021, 01:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
It just arrived at the dealership, just waiting for them to PDI.
I just sold the Z4MC a few days ago and wasn't really planning to jump right away.
I then found out that the G87 is moving to Mexico and will be out of production for a while.
I needed something for next season; found an M2C in HS that was still in the system, so I snagged it.
BIG change for me was opting for the DCT.

I think these are going to be in really short supply with the production delays.
wow, that e86 was yours for a long time
congrats on the M2C, I think you will quite like it, I do!
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      09-22-2021, 04:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by baege View Post
wow, that e86 was yours for a long time
congrats on the M2C, I think you will quite like it, I do!
Thanks! pick it up on Monday
Yeah, the Z4MC has been the longest that I've owned any other car... 11.5 yrs
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      09-22-2021, 06:31 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Both of those are unobtainable for me so I'll never know
When you say "not good low end torque", compared to a modern turbo, yes...you're not getting that thrust at 1500 rpm. I will say this though, I never had a problem in the lower rev range when my Cayman was stock. It spun up quickly to where the meat of the powerband was.

As great as the S65 is, it has a commonly known shortfall which is lack of torque (295 lb-ft) for daily driving. I've never driven an E9x M3 but, I'd have to chalk that up to the mass of the car at roughly 3600+ lbs as being one reason. The Cayman/Boxter never had a problem with being fat so perhaps that's why only 258 lb-ft was sufficient.

I'm confident that I could daily a GT4 and not complain about the low end. Others would.
Don't feel bad as the GT4 RS is likely very unobtainable to me as well. Currently own an M2 CS as I looking at possibly adding a Porsche as my budget allows. Looking for either GT3 or GT4 RS, whichever I really don't care at this point. I'm near end of list for GT3 (I'm not a VIP client at dealer as I never owned a Porsche before). I'll put in an email and phone call when the GT4 RS is revealed likely in November only to be told no.
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      09-22-2021, 06:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Don't feel bad as the GT4 RS is likely very unobtainable to me as well. Currently own an M2 CS as I looking at possibly adding a Porsche as my budget allows. Looking for either GT3 or GT4 RS, whichever I really don't care at this point. I'm near end of list for GT3 (I'm not a VIP client at dealer as I never owned a Porsche before). I'll put in an email and phone call when the GT4 RS is revealed likely in November only to be told no.
I'll keep this short and sweet. Go for the GT3 because of the engine, the engine, and that engine.
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      09-22-2021, 06:53 PM   #15
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Thanks for the review Spydert. This gives me the sads, as I've been telling myself that a Cayman GTS 4.0 is the only car that I would leave my OG M2 for. I used to own a 987 Cayman S and loved it, although not enough to trade it in and get myself installed in a manual M2.

I went to the local Porsche dealer for the launch of the 4 cyl 718 and just could not get past the gorgeous lines of the car....only to hear that nauseating drone from the exhaust. The 4.0 will fix that! (I thought).

The long gearing always concerned me, and the thought of needing to take a brand new Porsche to Sharkwerks to resolve that problem seemed ludicrous.

I'd still like to drive one myself to confirm my fears, but yeah, I think 911 has replaced the Cayman in my brain-garage. My wallet doesn't approve of this change!.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydert View Post
Do not meet your heroes.

I got a chance to take the Boxster GTS4.0 on a bit of an extended test drive today and Iíll get straight to the point - I was kind of disappointed.

Looks: Iím not really a big fan of the boxster design (love the Spyder) but I thought the python green color would rock and it did. Love it. Would def buy in this color.

Cabin/Seats: Typical Porsche - solid. Otherwise same as all 718s. The seats felt tight though, and I couldnít get the side bolsters to expand enough. I am by no means portly (more on the slim side) so I found this a bit weird.

Chassis/Suspension: This is by far the trump card of the 718 generation. Itís just superb and leagues better than the M2ís. The chassis can handle even more power. However, you can tell that itís heavier than the 4 cylinder variants. Itís not bad, and the firmness is reassuring, but you do feel that itís not as sprightly. Itís a more Ďseriousí 718.

Sound: The exhaust can get loud. Really loud. Itís a good noise - better than the 4 cylinder turbos and there wasnít the high speed drone those ones have, but itís not a really great noise either. I first noticed this when I started a 718GT4 a while back but thought then it must have been me, the sound features of the dealership floor etc, - but I confirmed it today. Itís a good but not great sound. The M2 makes a more melodious, sonorous tone and itís not as loud. There was a 991.2 Carrera driving by the other day and that had a much better sound. I had to switch off sports+ in some neighborhoods cos I just felt it was too obnoxious. Iíve never had that problem in the M2.

Engine - I know itíll sound odd but this is actually where I was disappointed - mainly with the throttle response. I get that its NA and all that, but this car feels almost lethargic in the low revs. And because the noise factor is up, itís like drama without any substance until you get up in the rev range, and then it moves. Itís just today I understood the frustration with the long gearing that folks have been talking about (I had the pdk by the way). There isnít much else but noise in the low revs and then when you to where the excitement starts, youíre already past the speed limit and have to slow back down. Itís like power that you just canít use and it was frustrating. I donít know why it has to be this way. The Miata is just a 4 pot NA and is very peppy in the low revs and I think more fun than this as a result. Also, the pdk in the 718 is nowhere near as good as in the new 992s. For the 911, I would be torn between the pdk and manual, but here, definitely the manual.

All in all, this is the third time I really went into the 718 with a view to seeing if I had found the car to replace or perhaps add to the M2. And each time Iíve come away with a clear sense that the M2 is the better car - at least for me. Weirdly, the GTS4.0 is to me, the biggest conundrum of the lot. The only thing I didnít like about the 4 cylinder GTS was the sound and the drone. In the 4.0, the chassis feels like it wants to be on the road, but the engine feels like it wants to be on a track, or be a GT car which I know sounds weird - but thatís how it felt. There was something unresolved about it. One thing I will say though is that with the exhaust left in normal, itíll be a way better daily driver than the M2.

As it stands now then, the 911 is the only car that really appeals to me in the Porsche line up (the 992 Carrera S is the best car I have ever driven in my life). Itís kinda sad cos Iíve always loved and looked up to the Cayman/Boxster series.

Maybe, really, do not meet your heroes.



NB: FWIW to anyone here, I was flabbergasted by the Cayene GTS. It's an absolute stonker of a car.
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      09-23-2021, 12:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Do you suspect that the GT4 and upcoming GT4 RS will also not have good low end torque?
Both of those are unobtainable for me so I'll never know
When you say "not good low end torque", compared to a modern turbo, yes...you're not getting that thrust at 1500 rpm. I will say this though, I never had a problem in the lower rev range when my Cayman was stock. It spun up quickly to where the meat of the powerband was.

As great as the S65 is, it has a commonly known shortfall which is lack of torque (295 lb-ft) for daily driving. I've never driven an E9x M3 but, I'd have to chalk that up to the mass of the car at roughly 3600+ lbs as being one reason. The Cayman/Boxter never had a problem with being fat so perhaps that's why only 258 lb-ft was sufficient.

I'm confident that I could daily a GT4 and not complain about the low end. Others would.
It doesn't lack torque for daily driving. It's just an engine that makes it's max power at the top of the rev range. But this whole it's not good for daily driving because of torque is horse shit. You think you can't get up to freeway speeds before the ramp ends? Please. It's not good for daily driving because it guzzles gas like crazy.
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      09-23-2021, 04:50 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
It doesn't lack torque for daily driving. It's just an engine that makes it's max power at the top of the rev range. But this whole it's not good for daily driving because of torque is horse shit. You think you can't get up to freeway speeds before the ramp ends? Please. It's not good for daily driving because it guzzles gas like crazy.
Yeah, I'm only echoing the masses.
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      09-23-2021, 01:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
It doesn't lack torque for daily driving. It's just an engine that makes it's max power at the top of the rev range. But this whole it's not good for daily driving because of torque is horse shit. You think you can't get up to freeway speeds before the ramp ends? Please. It's not good for daily driving because it guzzles gas like crazy.
I wanted so much to love the Cayman but after driving the 718 pdk and the manual I felt that the M2C was more fun to drive on the street. I have no doubt that flat out on the track is where it would come into it's prime. The lack of torque around town was disappointing, they made my M2C feel like a muscle car.
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      09-23-2021, 02:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
It doesn't lack torque for daily driving. It's just an engine that makes it's max power at the top of the rev range. But this whole it's not good for daily driving because of torque is horse shit. You think you can't get up to freeway speeds before the ramp ends? Please. It's not good for daily driving because it guzzles gas like crazy.
People don't seem to realize the torque at the actual wheels is what matters, not the crank. After the gearing and final drive the torque is excellent. People also don't understand that you really need to push the pedal down and use the revs.
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      09-23-2021, 09:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
People don't seem to realize the torque at the actual wheels is what matters, not the crank. After the gearing and final drive the torque is excellent. People also don't understand that you really need to push the pedal down and use the revs.
Sorry, I don't agree.

Using the revs is a problem on the street.
The tall gearing issue has been beaten to death for a reason.
The tall gearing also hinders torque.
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      09-23-2021, 09:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Sorry, I don't agree.

Using the revs is a problem on the street.
The tall gearing issue has been beaten to death for a reason.
The tall gearing also hinders torque.
I was responding to akkando who was taking about E92 M3 which does not have tall gearing.
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      09-23-2021, 09:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I was responding to akkando who was taking about E92 M3 which does not have tall gearing.
LOL .... sorry my bad
Completely different ball game & I agree.
Owned one myself & loved it.!
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