[graider]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Of course. But until the GT-R starts racing on the world scene, it still won't have racing heritage, which was how this all started. I pointed out how the lack of facts effect my personal bias, but the facts are still facts.

i think you missed the point here. are you saying you won't buy the gtr because it doesn't race?

the gtr is designed to compete the turbo. do you see the turbo racing?

[ragingclue]

Pfft... the GT-R... Just a poor man's Veyron. What a POS.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by graider

i think you missed the point here. are you saying you won't buy the gtr because it doesn't race?

the gtr is designed to compete the turbo. do you see the turbo racing?

All I've been saying is that the GT-R doesn't have racing heritage, whether it's because it doesn't confirm to the rules shouldn't matter. For the same reason the Veyron may be faster than other cars on a track, but isn't built to confirm to racing rules. That's fine, both cars have different missions than things like M3's, 911's and Vettes.

I wouldn't buy one (or a 911tt) because there are cars that better suit my desires, and for the GT-R, I don't like two pedal cars. But as I've said before, just because it doesn't have racing heritage or appeal to me personally, that doesn't mean that I don't respect it, think it's a hell of a bargain and effect what other builders are doing to compete (off the track) with it. It's a hell of a car, regardless of price, and even more appealing because of where it's priced. Even if there's no way it puts down the quoted N'Ring times.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

All I've been saying is that the GT-R doesn't have racing heritage, whether it's because it doesn't confirm to the rules shouldn't matter. For the same reason the Veyron may be faster than other cars on a track, but isn't built to confirm to racing rules. That's fine, both cars have different missions than things like M3's, 911's and Vettes.

I wouldn't buy one (or a 911tt) because there are cars that better suit my desires, and for the GT-R, I don't like two pedal cars. But as I've said before, just because it doesn't have racing heritage or appeal to me personally, that doesn't mean that I don't respect it, think it's a hell of a bargain and effect what other builders are doing to compete (off the track) with it. It's a hell of a car, regardless of price, and even more appealing because of where it's priced. Even if there's no way it puts down the quoted N'Ring times.

Truth.

[graider]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

All I've been saying is that the GT-R doesn't have racing heritage, whether it's because it doesn't confirm to the rules shouldn't matter. For the same reason the Veyron may be faster than other cars on a track, but isn't built to confirm to racing rules. That's fine, both cars have different missions than things like M3's, 911's and Vettes.

I wouldn't buy one (or a 911tt) because there are cars that better suit my desires, and for the GT-R, I don't like two pedal cars. But as I've said before, just because it doesn't have racing heritage or appeal to me personally, that doesn't mean that I don't respect it, think it's a hell of a bargain and effect what other builders are doing to compete (off the track) with it. It's a hell of a car, regardless of price, and even more appealing because of where it's priced. Even if there's no way it puts down the quoted N'Ring times.

totally agree with you there which went back to the original point, who the fwck brought up racing heritage in the first place because obviously it doesn't apply to car like the turbo and gtr.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

All I've been saying is that the GT-R doesn't have racing heritage, whether it's because it doesn't confirm to the rules shouldn't matter. For the same reason the Veyron may be faster than other cars on a track, but isn't built to confirm to racing rules. That's fine, both cars have different missions than things like M3's, 911's and Vettes.

I wouldn't buy one (or a 911tt) because there are cars that better suit my desires, and for the GT-R, I don't like two pedal cars. But as I've said before, just because it doesn't have racing heritage or appeal to me personally, that doesn't mean that I don't respect it, think it's a hell of a bargain and effect what other builders are doing to compete (off the track) with it. It's a hell of a car, regardless of price, and even more appealing because of where it's priced. Even if there's no way it puts down the quoted N'Ring times.

While I agree that the GTR hasn't the same pedigree of racing heritage that the 911 has but I question what's really the point you are making? Like it's not as if 99% of 911s will be raced by their potential owners either. These cars are street cars bought primarily for the street and driven by guys that are usually frightened to push them anywhere close to their true potential.

Merit where due, the GTR is probably the single biggest shake up to hit the supercar market in quite some time, it's always majored on AWD technology which sticks two fingers up at the traditionalist approach to a supercar and it's prove that in this particular car that technology is as good as it gets.

Is this time achieved at the N-ring believable and achievable by anyone else? Frankly I don't really care, I do believe Nissan achieved it like they did in the past and I do reckon that put the right man in any car and it will go quicker than previously thought possible. But the fact it's already out shone such stars as the LF-A and 458 suggests that it's a very gifted and special car that shouldn't be underestimated.

[graider]

cannot say any better. footie is back, yay.

Originally Posted by footie

While I agree that the GTR hasn't the same pedigree of racing heritage that the 911 has but I question what's really the point you are making? Like it's not as if 99% of 911s will be raced by their potential owners either. These cars are street cars bought primarily for the street and driven by guys that are usually frightened to push them anywhere close to their true potential.

Merit where due, the GTR is probably the single biggest shake up to hit the supercar market in quite some time, it's always majored on AWD technology which sticks two fingers up at the traditionalist approach to a supercar and it's prove that in this particular car that technology is as good as it gets.

Is this time achieved at the N-ring believable and achievable by anyone else? Frankly I don't really care, I do believe Nissan achieved it like they did in the past and I do reckon that put the right man in any car and it will go quicker than previously thought possible. But the fact it's already out shone such stars as the LF-A and 458 suggests that it's a very gifted and special car that shouldn't be underestimated.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Okay, believe what you want. If you think the "Australian Touring Car Championship" is a big cup race, nothing I say is going to change your mind. However according to your own criteria, the Ford Sierra, which duplicated the same feat the GTR did, 1 year before, also has a great racing heritage. Maybe you and I just have different standards on what we consider a great racing heritage.

Also I think it's quite telling that the R35, in its 4th year of production, has yet to be fielded in a major cup race against its contemporaries in the FIA GT.

The Australian touring car championship was an excellent series, the Sierra Cosworth had a fantastic racing heritage, it pissed all over the E30 M3, it was only the R32 GTR that eventually beat it. The Cossie was also pretty useful as a rally car in both original and later Saphire Cosworth guises.



The R32 GTR was specifically built for the FIA Group A Touring Car Class



I might be wrong here because you are so obviously correct, but aren't these photos of a Nissan R35 GTR racing in the FIA World GT1 Championship, Team Sumo Racing are currently in thrid place and have 1 victory and several podiums, not bad for a car in it's 1 competitive year.

But I'm probably worng and these are all fakes because the GTR has as we all now know has no racing heritage.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

I might be wrong here because you are so obviously correct, but aren't these photos of a Nissan R35 GTR racing in the FIA World GT1 Championship, Team Sumo Racing are currently in thrid place and have 1 victory and several podiums, not bad for a car in it's 1 competitive year.

But I'm probably worng and these are all fakes because the GTR has as we all now know has no racing heritage.

heritage (n) - something inherited at birth, such as personal characteristics, status, and possessions

1 year of competition doesn't mean heritage

[footie]

Originally Posted by graider

cannot say any better. footie is back, yay.

Back but still in a limited capacity so only post if something pricks my interest. But thanks for the continued support.

[MikeyV]

The R32 was an incrediably successful race car, so successful they banned it in many series, The R31 Skyline GTS-R (before the R32) was also a very successful touring car, all verions of GTR have raced in the Japanese GT500 series with a lot of success, so as far as heritage is concerned anyone who says the GTR has no racing heritage doesn't know what they are talking about.

Nissan Skyline GTS-R



Nissan Skyline GTR PGC10



Nissan Skyline C110 GTR





I could just keep on going with photos of racing Skylines but what would be the point as obviously the Skyline has no racing heritage because a bunch of numptys on this forum say so.

[footie]

Originally Posted by TK-421

heritage (n) - something inherited at birth, such as personal characteristics, status, and possessions

1 year of competition doesn't mean heritage

I think what he was suggesting is that though the 911 has a great amount of racing hertiage the GTR has had quite a bit itself. Every version of the GTR has had a successful racing history dating back more than 30 years, hardly 1 year of competing, unless your comments are referring to solely the R35 model.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by footie

I think what he was suggesting is that though the 911 has a great amount of racing hertiage the GTR has had quite a bit itself. Every version of the GTR has had a successful racing history dating back more than 30 years, hardly 1 year of competing, unless your comments are referring to solely the R35 model.

Which just proves that, unlike what someone said earlier, the R35 HAS been used in a world-level racing series.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Even if there's no way it puts down the quoted N'Ring times.

Since you seem to have missed it earlier, the 997 Turbo doesn't put down it's quoted Ring times either.

SportAuto test by same driver:
Nissan claimed 7:26, SportAuto HvS acheived 7:38 - difference of 12 secs
Porsche claimed 7:38 for the 997 Turbo, HvS got a 7:54 - difference of 16secs
The new 2012 GT-R Nissan claimed 7:20 (7:24 in semi-wet) - HvS acheived 7:34 - difference of 14secs.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Since you seem to have missed it earlier, the 997 Turbo doesn't put down it's quoted Ring times either.

SportAuto test by same driver:
Nissan claimed 7:26, SportAuto HvS acheived 7:38 - difference of 12 secs
Porsche claimed 7:38 for the 997 Turbo, HvS got a 7:54 - difference of 16secs
The new 2012 GT-R Nissan claimed 7:20 (7:24 in semi-wet) - HvS acheived 7:34 - difference of 14secs.

Was that something I argued? I stated elsewhere that the 911tt isn't a car that interests me, for similar reasons that the GTR doesn't interest me.

[DASHOCKER]

The GTR is the best car out of Japan for driving enthusiasts on planet Earth.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Was that something I argued? I stated elsewhere that the 911tt isn't a car that interests me, for similar reasons that the GTR doesn't interest me.

Will your 135i post similar times to either of these cars, will it match their respective performance stats, will command the same kind of respect from other road users?

I personally would love to own either of them, the fact that I've 3 kids and the need to supply cars starting soon means I couldn't justify the expense and they will probably always be dream cars for the foreseeable future. But I couldn't make the claim that neither of them wouldn't interest me because there was something 2wd that was better. Don't take this the wrong way but arguing about cars claiming that they 'don't interest me' for any other reason other than they are out of your price bracket is not being truthful to yourself. Given the chance of owning one I bet you would be as happy as a kid in a candy store.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Was that something I argued? I stated elsewhere that the 911tt isn't a car that interests me, for similar reasons that the GTR doesn't interest me.

Besides where I quoted you?? You are discounting the car because it doesn't back up Nissan's claim Ring times. Neither does Porsche. The point is, discounting the GT-R as "unworthy" because of that means you'd have to discount the Porsche. I haven't looked but I wonder if ANY of the 911s have had a 3rd party driver back up their claimed times.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by footie

Will your 135i post similar times to either of these cars, will it match their respective performance stats, will command the same kind of respect from other road users?

Would anything from Audi? I listed why they don't interest me, they're awd, one doesn't come with a manual, and they're both rather heavy. Even heavier than my wife's 135i.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Besides where I quoted you?? You are discounting the car because it doesn't back up Nissan's claim Ring times. Neither does Porsche. The point is, discounting the GT-R as "unworthy" because of that means you'd have to discount the Porsche. I haven't looked but I wonder if ANY of the 911s have had a 3rd party driver back up their claimed times.

Okay, let's discount both. I also haven't looked, but my feeling is that the GT3 has times that are closer to Rohl's. But comparing quoted N'Ring times for any car, with a factory driver, and who knows how much near cheating, like shaved tires, roll cages, etc. will always be a bit silly. Can a showroom fresh GTR post a 7:2x time, with me at the wheel? Hell no. But can a GTR from the showroom, with a little extra prep work, with a factory hot shoe post that time? Yes.

Is it impressive? Yes. Do I want one? Who cares?

[graider]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Okay, let's discount both. I also haven't looked, but my feeling is that the GT3 has times that are closer to Rohl's. But comparing quoted N'Ring times for any car, with a factory driver, and who knows how much near cheating, like shaved tires, roll cages, etc. will always be a bit silly. Can a showroom fresh GTR post a 7:2x time, with me at the wheel? Hell no. But can a GTR from the showroom, with a little extra prep work, with a factory hot shoe post that time? Yes.

Is it impressive? Yes. Do I want one? Who cares?

if you don't care and don't want one, then why argue about it's ring time?

time to GTFO

[MediaArtist]

Lesson learned = On the internet, anyone can argue about anything.