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      05-16-2020, 09:56 PM   #1
mmwwhats
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Deactivate Power Steering?

As much as I love my M2C, the primary complaint I have is the numb disconnected steering. Many have pinned this on either the EPS or how BMW programs the EPS. So, screw the EPS... is it possible to deactivate power steering all together and just go powerless?
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      05-16-2020, 11:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmwwhats View Post
As much as I love my M2C, the primary complaint I have is the numb disconnected steering. Many have pinned this on either the EPS or how BMW programs the EPS. So, screw the EPS... is it possible to deactivate power steering all together and just go powerless?
I don't think there is a physical connection from steering wheel to tie rods for manual steering to be possible. Meaning these two red circled parts aren't physically connected. Which is why feeling from the tires doesn't transfer to the steering wheel.

It's the electric motor (circled in blue) that's connected to the tie rods. Steering shaft only being connected to the outer tube the tie rod/steering rack sits inside of.

It's my understanding that it's not even a power steering system, but an electric motor that accepts input from the steering wheel to move the tie rods that turn the wheels. I don't even think our cars use power steering fluid.

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      05-16-2020, 11:37 PM   #3
mmwwhats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I don't think there is a physical connection from steering wheel to tie rods for manual steering to be possible. Meaning these two red circled parts aren't physically connected. Which is why feeling from the tires doesn't transfer to the steering wheel.

It's the electric motor (circled in blue) that's connected to the tie rods. Steering shaft only being connected to the outer tube the tie rod/steering rack sits inside of.

It's my understanding that it's not even a power steering system, but an electric motor that accepts input from the steering wheel to move the tie rods that turn the wheels. I don't even think our cars use power steering fluid.
That's an incredibly informative answer. Thank you. And also a major bummer given how much I like this car otherwise
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      05-17-2020, 07:44 AM   #4
M Fifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I don't think there is a physical connection from steering wheel to tie rods for manual steering to be possible. Meaning these two red circled parts aren't physically connected. Which is why feeling from the tires doesn't transfer to the steering wheel.

It's the electric motor (circled in blue) that's connected to the tie rods. Steering shaft only being connected to the outer tube the tie rod/steering rack sits inside of.

It's my understanding that it's not even a power steering system, but an electric motor that accepts input from the steering wheel to move the tie rods that turn the wheels. I don't even think our cars use power steering fluid.

On your last point, correct, there is no power steering fluid, the motor provides the assistance directly.

On your first point, if that were the case, it would not just be difficult to turn the steering with the engine off, but actually impossible.

Last edited by M Fifty; 05-17-2020 at 07:56 AM.. Reason: Spelling
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      05-17-2020, 07:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmwwhats View Post
As much as I love my M2C, the primary complaint I have is the numb disconnected steering. Many have pinned this on either the EPS or how BMW programs the EPS. So, screw the EPS... is it possible to deactivate power steering all together and just go powerless?
Yes, it is. But see my point above about how hard it is to turn the steering with the engine off (but ignition on, so the steering lock doesn't engage).

Disconnecting the power supply to the motor on the steering rack would probably be the easiest way to test this:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ering/FpcT7gR1
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      05-17-2020, 10:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post

On your first point, if that were the case, it would not just be difficult to turn the steering with the engine off, but actually impossible.
I assume it's like any other electrical device in the car. Works with acc turned on. One press of the engine start button without stepping on the brake.

My steering wheel certainly does not turn the wheels with the car off.
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      05-17-2020, 11:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I assume it's like any other electrical device in the car. Works with acc turned on. One press of the engine start button without stepping on the brake.

My steering wheel certainly does not turn the wheels with the car off.
With the car completely off, the steering lock engages so the wheel can't move. With the car 'on' but the engine off, the motor on the rack isn't powered, which is why the steering is so dam heavy if you try to turn the steering (but, it will turn).

Try it - you'll see what I mean.
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      05-17-2020, 11:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
With the car completely off, the steering lock engages so the wheel can't move. With the car 'on' but the engine off, the motor on the rack isn't powered, which is why the steering is so dam heavy if you try to turn the steering (but, it will turn).

Try it - you'll see what I mean.
I get that the wheel is locked. What I don't get is how you know it's not powered? It could be supplied a lower voltage with power on, opposed to with engine on. Which would also cause a stiffer wheel.

Conversely, I don't actually know if the steering shaft isn't connected to the rack. I just kinda assumed it from that illustration.

I'm going out to try it now cause I have to run to the grocery store for milk. Ate eggs every morning for weeks but had to switch to cereal to keep my milk from going bad. Yesterday I used up the last of the milk, so I can finally eat eggs again haha. Omelettes are apparently the most exciting thing in my life right now lol.
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      05-20-2020, 04:35 PM   #9
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It is physically connected. Very few cars have completely steer by wire systems.

Here is a good article showing what it looks like inside - https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...ned-78813.html
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      05-20-2020, 04:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I get that the wheel is locked. What I don't get is how you know it's not powered? It could be supplied a lower voltage with power on, opposed to with engine on. Which would also cause a stiffer wheel.

Conversely, I don't actually know if the steering shaft isn't connected to the rack. I just kinda assumed it from that illustration.

I'm going out to try it now cause I have to run to the grocery store for milk. Ate eggs every morning for weeks but had to switch to cereal to keep my milk from going bad. Yesterday I used up the last of the milk, so I can finally eat eggs again haha. Omelettes are apparently the most exciting thing in my life right now lol.
Put the front end on axle stands, power the car up (but don't start it) and get up under there with a voltmeter to check.

Or, if you never experienced how a power-assisted steering car feels with no power steering, find one with hydraulic power steering, remove the belt to the pump and go for a drive.

It feels...'distinctive'.

HTH
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      05-20-2020, 05:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
It feels...'distinctive'.
HTH
Lol, at low speeds it sucks so much, much better at high speeds.
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      05-20-2020, 06:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Put the front end on axle stands, power the car up (but don't start it) and get up under there with a voltmeter to check.

Or, if you never experienced how a power-assisted steering car feels with no power steering, find one with hydraulic power steering, remove the belt to the pump and go for a drive.

It feels...'distinctive'.

HTH
It's impossible (and particularly frustrating) to have a conversation with you about this, when I say I assume it works one way, and then you say "no you're wrong" and reply the reason being an assumption of your own... So I'm out. I don't have time for that type of non-sense.

The fact that you want me to put my car on jack stands to prove YOUR point is just silly. If you really want to prove me wrong so badly, go do it your self.

Last edited by Anthony1s; 05-20-2020 at 06:30 PM..
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      05-20-2020, 09:34 PM   #13
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If I'm not mistaken, isn't the "M Servotronic" EPS system based around less assistance? a.k.a. the heavier steering in sport mode is due to less assistance from the electronic motor. Making it more direct.

The heavy front end/wheels, wide tires, isolating bushings etc are what numb the feeling. Hydraulic systems were great because they amplified steering input AND amplified feedback.

I've heard from a M3 owner that the 20" wheels have more feel and that's probably because they ride harsher sending more "feel" back to the driver.
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      05-20-2020, 10:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmwwhats View Post
As much as I love my M2C, the primary complaint I have is the numb disconnected steering. Many have pinned this on either the EPS or how BMW programs the EPS. So, screw the EPS... is it possible to deactivate power steering all together and just go powerless?
You could also try coding one of the other options in. I’m currently running M4GTS steering coding in my OG M2. And it’s much much better than my original version. There are several different models to choose from. I used the Thor app, but you can code it yourself, I just couldn’t be bothered with learning how so I just went with Thor. Takes me 2 minutes to switch between the different coding options.
Still won’t be what the e92 m3 had. But at least there’s some adjustability.
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      05-21-2020, 02:08 AM   #15
M Fifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
It's impossible (and particularly frustrating) to have a conversation with you about this, when I say I assume it works one way, and then you say "no you're wrong" and reply the reason being an assumption of your own... So I'm out. I don't have time for that type of non-sense.

The fact that you want me to put my car on jack stands to prove YOUR point is just silly. If you really want to prove me wrong so badly, go do it your self.
Assumption - no.

Empirical evidence - yes.

Plus, read the thread about clunking from the front end turning out to be the steering There's a great picture of the adjuster on the rack.
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      05-21-2020, 06:43 PM   #16
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No power steering on a street car is going to be miserable, unless you’re really a point A to point A kind of driver hitting up the country roads.

Anecdotally, during a particularly long endurance race with our R53 Mini we overheated the power steering and it started leaking fluid. The quick fix to get back out was to remove the pump and loop the feed and return lines. At first drive I thought we made a horrible mistake. At slow speeds around the paddock it was quite an arm work out, but once at track speeds it still felt a little stiff, but manageable. This is on a car that stock is almost 1000 lbs lighter than an M2, and this one was fully stripped. I think the rack ratios are designed with power steering in mind.
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