[ZM2]

So, I put the 300-cell HJS DP on yesterday and wanted to see how things looked.

BTW, you're going to hate this log FSociety I had some nice pulls before these, but it didn't save for some reason. So, I had to do these where I didn't have as much space to run thru the gears, but I focused on quick, hard braking and then back on the gas to try to get the IATs up to see how'd she perform.

The timing drop on cylinder 3 is pretty much gone, except for a couple of later pulls where there's also a mini knock (0.1) detected. Think it's a plug not performing as well as it could, or nothing to worry about?

Also, I can feel my HPFP cracking up on the first pull, so I'm going to drop to E29 to see if that resolves it and if the timing is still good.

Lastly, I'm seriously contemplating putting a water/meth injection system on just for IAT reduction, vs added fueling and tuning for it. Goal would be to keep IATs always below 105F. May do that in a couple weeks.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d0cec87ae729b165fa4ea46

Edit: My first set of logs showed up! These are better for reviewing:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d0ceb1dae729b165fa4ea41

[ZM2]

So, I was reviewing some of my logs and summarized a quick comparison below.

The first log is Stg 2 93 5.7 from a couple months back after installing the Wagner IC. The second log is Stg 2H E30 with the new downpipe and Motul 300V Racing oil. Quick summary:

-Similar ambient temps, so shouldn’t impact the logs differently.
-Oil & coolant temps are about 10F lower with the E30 map, new downpipe, and 300V.
-No change to ultimate IATs, they still get up to 135F in the later runs. But, the IAT rise on the E30 map is much slower, allowing the car to do more runs before starting to pull timing. I'm guessing the DP had an impact here.
-The E30 map is hitting the boost target much more consistently, and the timing pull is substantially less especially as IATs go up. More power! This is also evidenced in the MAF values dropping less in the E30 log (vs Stg 2 93) as IATs go up.
-With the little bit of added power from the new DP (and the E30), I’ve crossed the threshold when the HPFP starts to crack up on the first pull. So, I’m going to back down to E29, E28, E27, etc, until it holds steady, and will check logs to make sure no knocks are being introduced.
-I’m skeptical that I’ll be able to run this higher boost E30 map on track in the summer, as over a 30min run I’m guessing IATs will get too high. I can switch to the OTS E30 map or Stg 2 93 map (while running an E27-29 blend), if so.
-Altho, if I install the WMI, it should address the IAT issue and supplement fueling just enough to keep the HPFP from crashing.
-Overall, more power and running cooler with E30, the DP, and 300V. And the car sounds much better!

93 logs
www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cb90b36ae729b44f4273e3b

E30/300V/DP logs
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d0ceb1dae729b165fa4ea41

[ZM2]

Well, I tried dropping to E26 with the Stg 2H E30 map to see if I could cure the HPFP crash on the initial pull, but it didn't fix it. Similar to my E30 runs, on E26 the HPFP drops pretty low and cuts out on the first pull, but is perfectly fine after that.

The E26 doesn't feel quite a peppy as the E30, but there's still no knocks on the Stg 2H E30 map with a little additional timing pull in 4th gear.

So, I'll probably stick to an E30 mix, but I'm not sure how to manage the initial HPFP crash. Maybe just go 3/4 throttle thru some revs and then it'll be ready for WOT pulls? Seems like it should be OK for the track, as the HPFP is fine after the first pull.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d102ed8ae729b165fa4f3d6

[JKen_0115]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Well, I tried dropping to E26 with the Stg 2H E30 map to see if I could cure the HPFP crash on the initial pull, but it didn't fix it. Similar to my E30 runs, on E26 the HPFP drops pretty low and cuts out on the first pull, but is perfectly fine after that.

The E26 doesn't feel quite a peppy as the E30, but there's still no knocks on the Stg 2H E30 map with a little additional timing pull in 4th gear.

So, I'll probably stick to an E30 mix, but I'm not sure how to manage the initial HPFP crash. Maybe just go 3/4 throttle thru some revs and then it'll be ready for WOT pulls? Seems like it should be OK for the track, as the HPFP is fine after the first pull.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d102ed8ae729b165fa4f3d6

I have learned some tuner to use B58 OEM HPFP replacement to solve the similar issue, you may want to investigate a bit. Not sure if it would help but just like to share for you.

[ZM2]

No HPFP issues on E25. Not as zippy as E30, but faster than Stg 2 93 and no annoying HPFP issues.

Haven’t seen any knocks on my Stg 2H E30 map, but will keep logging.

[SeanWRT]

If you're hitting the boost cap, you're injecting less fuel than it would with maximum power (that the map could target) when IAT is lower.

Meaning whatever E % you're seeing you're working fine with, wait until it's cool enough to NOT hit the boost target and find out.

[msmiljanic]

Originally Posted by ZM2

No HPFP issues on E25. Not as zippy as E30, but faster than Stg 2 93 and no annoying HPFP issues.

Haven't seen any knocks on my Stg 2H E30 map, but will keep logging.

Do you understand why e25 runs ok on a e30 map when many folks have issues running 93 on the 93 map. It would seem that e25 wouldn't have enough octane for the e30 map - weird.

Why not move back to e20 and run the 93 map providing headroom for when it gets hotter? And you are using less ethanol which may be a good thing.

I am still not convinced that about running over 10% on ethanol for reasons of low quality e85 in the stations tank and being in a humid environment(I have many researched if that's an issue).

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by msmiljanic

Do you understand why e25 runs ok on a e30 map when many folks have issues running 93 on the 93 map. It would seem that e25 wouldn't have enough octane for the e30 map - weird.

Why not move back to e20 and run the 93 map providing headroom for when it gets hotter? And you are using less ethanol which may be a good thing.

I am still not convinced that about running over 10% on ethanol for reasons of low quality e85 in the stations tank and being in a humid environment(I have many researched if that's an issue).

It seems there’s some decent headroom in the E30 map. I’m guessing bc you never know exactly what the E ratio is at our E85 pumps—can be E51-85–and Halim wants to account for that.

Ethanol is much more tolerant in producing power with high IATs vs gas, so I’d like to run an E mix all the time. But, we all battle the HPFP issue on the N55, especially once it gets cold, as SeanWRT mentioned.

You could definitely run E20 on the 93 map and that’s what I’ll do if I need to back down bc of high IATs at the track or HPFP issues as outside temps change. I have an open track event for testing next month and we’ll have to wait until winter for the later.

In the meantime, we’re supposed to have a heat index of 97F here tomorrow, so I’ll get some Stg 2H E30 logs on E25 to see how IATs, timing, and knock look.

[5.M0NSTER]

Hey ZM2, you’ve been fighting this battle with fueling, tuning parameter and IATs for some time now.

I’m curious, would you say that this adventure for sustainable power has been fun, or would you try to persuade others to avoid this path. Just curious how you feel. No deeper motives here.

There have been questions on this forum about high Hp N55 builds and you’re one of the more seasoned users of this motor. Curious what you think. Would you do it all again, or do something different knowing what you know now.

Thanks for your insight.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Hey ZM2, you’ve been fighting this battle with fueling, tuning parameter and IATs for some time now.

I’m curious, would you say that this adventure for sustainable power has been fun, or would you try to persuade others to avoid this path. Just curious how you feel. No deeper motives here.

There have been questions on this forum about high Hp N55 builds and you’re one of the more seasoned users of this motor. Curious what you think. Would you do it all again, or do something different knowing what you know now.

Thanks for your insight.

If you’re tracking the car often and/or not planning on keeping it for long, don’t add power. The rabbit hole is too deep.

If you’re planning on keeping it for a long time or not tracking it, go for it.

It’s a great car despite its weaknesses, I have zero interest in the sound of an S55, and who knows what the next gen M2 will look/be like. So for me, I track it often and will probably plan on keeping the car a long time.

I’ve learned a lot going thru this process. That’s the fun part.

[ZM2]

Here are 94F ambient pulls with the Stg 2H E30 map and E25 fuel. Observations:

-IATs are getting up to 150F
-The E mix definitely handles high IATs better than gas, and the effect of timing pull isn't nearly as bad
-MAF hits about 0.8-lb/min less as IATs get high, confirming the above. That's probably 10-hp or so of power pulled?
-No major knocks
-I filled up with E30 afterwards and had no issues with the HPFP dropping out. To SeanWRT point, higher IATs = less power = less strain on the HPFP

Overall, I think I'm going to stick the Stg 2H E30 map and E30 fuel for my open track day next month when ambient will be ~100F, vs adding WMI and more complexity for now. I won't be making as much power w/o WMI, but I want to see how coolant, oil, and IATs hold up vs my experience last year: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1525790

I'm making more power now and I think my temps will stay lower with my hardware upgrades since and E30, so we'll see how it works out. If things get too hot, I'll back down to the Stg 2 E30 or Stg 2 93 maps with E30 fuel.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d17a323c090c6118f25c1f6

[SeanWRT]

@ZM2 Glad you find more and smoother power from ethanol.

An much easier, simpler and cheaper solution to your fueling issue would be the B58 HPFP, a plug and play option which from recent test, can hold up E30 on the power level Dinan turbo is capable of.

STG1 turbo+E30+HPFP seems to be a very balanced combo for the M2. I'm even thinking a lifted boost cap from E30 map would be possible (not that OTS E30 map isn't aggressive already) if you want to max it out for dyno or high way pull.

Good luck man tuning with M2. I understand It's not easy.

[5.M0NSTER]

Thanks ZM2, it's good to hear advice from more experience users. Appreciate your input!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

@ZM2 Glad you find more and smoother power from ethanol.

An much easier, simpler and cheaper solution to your fueling issue would be the B58 HPFP, a plug and play option which from recent test, can hold up E30 on the power level Dinan turbo is capable of.

STG1 turbo+E30+HPFP seems to be a very balanced combo for the M2. I'm even thinking a lifted boost cap from E30 map would be possible (not that OTS E30 map isn't aggressive already) if you want to max it out for dyno or high way pull.

Good luck man tuning with M2. I understand It's not easy.

I’m thinking this would be a great way to go. I don’t see wanting much more power than this setup, or I’d likely need to upgrade suspension (Dinan HAS), brakes (front AP’s), and WMI to cope with the additional power.

I’ve seen a couple mentions of this upgrade, but do you have a good link that describes the needed part numbers and install? Sounds like it’s as simple as replacing the stock HPFP, but I don’t know if there’s anything custom about the mounting.

Thanks!

Edit: I read thru this thread, which you make some comments in: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1589774 I can’t find the B58 pump for less than $1100. At that pricing I’d probably go WMI first, then the B58 or XDI pump, if wanting more.

[ZM2]

Hey guys.

So, I'm going to hit the dyno on Monday. I'll run the Stg 2H E30 map with E28 so I don't have any HPFP issues. E30 def feels faster, but I think it'll crack up on the dyno.

I've never dyno'ed a car before, so give me your input so you don't tell me I did it wrong on Monday.

-5th gear pulls? (I'm DCT)
-SAE corrected?
-Get an OBD splitter to take logs while on the dyno?
-It'll be around 90F here, so hopefully the heat soak won't be an issue. Altho, the ethanol helps to keep power up with higher IATs.

Anything else?

[M2C AW]

No pearls of wisdom here..but definitely interested in your results ( I have a stg 1 turbo ready to go in).
It would be great to see some logs too.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hey guys.

So, I'm going to hit the dyno on Monday. I'll run the Stg 2H E30 map with E28 so I don't have any HPFP issues. E30 def feels faster, but I think it'll crack up on the dyno.

I've never dyno'ed a car before, so give me your input so you don't tell me I did it wrong on Monday.

-5th gear pulls? (I'm DCT)
-SAE corrected?
-Get an OBD splitter to take logs while on the dyno?
-It'll be around 90F here, so hopefully the heat soak won't be an issue. Altho, the ethanol helps to keep power up with higher IATs.

Anything else?

My suggestion on dyno:

1) Log all of the runs, of course. If no switching maps, 3~4 runs would be enough.

2) Pull on 4th gear to avoid heat soak. 4th & 5th whp difference is minimal given no heat soak.

3) Corrected to either STD or SAE, Dynojet would give you a considerably favorable correction factor, to compensate for the hot temp. In reality, turbocharged engine already self-compensates for that by increasing boost target. In your particular case, ethanol's high octane rating should support the lifted boost target without timing loss. As a result, you'll get very inflated corrected whp numbers. It can even reads higher than it would on a very cold day. Therefore, you better ask the dyno shop to show you both uncorrected and STD corrected whp.

4) Cool it down well (ignition on, external fan/blower on) for at least 5 mins in between EVERY run. The OTS maps have boost capped at 17.6psi, a ceiling you certainly will hit at middle and high rpm ranges as hot as you're running. Therefore, every Celsius/Fahrenheit increase of IAT would mean some loss of air density, or volumetric efficiency, AKA power. You would see number going down run by run if you don't show patience.

My guess for your setup would be 415whp on 4th, E25-E30 corrected to STD and smoothing 5, shown from your 2nd run.

Let's find out Don't forget to start a new thread for your dyno story.

Good luck!

[ZM2]

Thanks SeanWRT We’ll see what happens!

[JKen_0115]

Any good result to share?

[ZM2]

Well, not sure what to think about the dyno plots attached below. It was really hot (as shown in the logs), and I didn't do a pull on the stock tune even tho it would be with upgraded hardware and E28.

The car definitely doesn't feel like what is shown in the graph from 5.5k-up, and it pulls on cars that I know have more power than this.

My plan at this point is to try a different Dynojet in town, also do a stock pull, and have a buddy with a stock M2 do some pulls, as well. Will also try for a little cooler day so there's not as much timing pull.

That should help compare dyno's, but the real world test will be later this week when I hit the open track against my Uncle's Turner Motorsports track prepped supercharged E93 M3 (587whp). I barely beat him last year with my Dinantronics Stage 4, Dinan suspension, AP brakes, CSF coolers, etc, and the car def pulls harder now than it did last year.

Logs:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d2cef2cc090c61354aa592c
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d331fc9ae729b2135acc5d1

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Well, not sure what to think about the dyno plots attached below. It was really hot (as shown in the logs), and I didn't do a pull on the stock tune even tho it would be with upgraded hardware and E28.

The car definitely doesn't feel like what is shown in the graph from 5.5k-up, and it pulls on cars that I know have more power than this.

My plan at this point is to try a different Dynojet in town, also do a stock pull, and have a buddy with a stock M2 do some pulls, as well. Will also try for a little cooler day so there's not as much timing pull.

That should help compare dyno's, but the real world test will be later this week when I hit the open track against my Uncle's Turner Motorsports track prepped supercharged E93 M3 (587whp). I barely beat him last year with my Dinantronics Stage 4, Dinan suspension, AP brakes, CSF coolers, etc, and the car def pulls harder now than it did last year.

Logs:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d2cef2cc090c61354aa592c
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d331fc9ae729b2135acc5d1

From log, it's pulling very strong despite of the high temp and the falling HPFP. Back to back stock pull would help explain.

Thanks for sharing!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

From log, it's pulling very strong despite of the high temp and the falling HPFP. Back to back stock pull would help explain.

Thanks for sharing!

Normally MAF hits 43-43.5lb/min. Only 41 in this case. I’ll do some dyno time over the next month.

It actually looks pretty cool for our open track day this year (85F vs 105F), so maybe I’ll do a race gas tank on the race gas map!