[ZM2]

Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo

They must have added it a little while back when they included misfire counts ect to the options. I probably glossed over it when flipping through them. Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can pull it up on previous logs, so I guess you have to run it as one of the dashboard channels at the time of capture.

I’m not too familiar with the history of the platform or if datalog options differ bn cars. I just noticed it was a datalog option when I started logging at the end of 2018.

[AmuroRay]

The more I read, the more I'm convinced that the Wagner Evo 3 might be one of the best IC's on this platform. It's not just the good keeping the IATs in check, it's that it provides (from all the reviews) lighter weight and great driveability.

I'll wait for more review to trickle out, but I really like what Wagner did - MASSIVE surface area to make up for the lack of fin density (which can limit response) lighter weight (I believe it was quoted at 27lbs?) but still heavy enough to provide good thermal capacity.

I really want to see some track reviews on it, and how the taller height effects the coolant temperatures.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The more I read, the more I'm convinced that the Wagner Evo 3 might be one of the best IC's on this platform. It's not just the good keeping the IATs in check, it's that it provides (from all the reviews) lighter weight and great driveability.

I'll wait for more review to trickle out, but I really like what Wagner did - MASSIVE surface area to make up for the lack of fin density (which can limit response) lighter weight (I believe it was quoted at 27lbs?) but still heavy enough to provide good thermal capacity.

I really want to see some track reviews on it, and how the taller height effects the coolant temperatures.

30.4-lbs on Wagner’s site, but I don’t think anyone has weighed it to confirm.

It’s pricey and a bit of a pain to install, but it comes with its own pipes with larger inlet/outlet diameters, so that saves some cash.

And it bolts to the crash bumper, so it’s super solid.

It’ll take 5-6mo for me to get some hot weather track day logs, but the 95F ambient back to back pull logs I did last summer look pretty good!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

30.4-lbs on Wagner’s site, but I don’t think anyone has weighed it to confirm.

It’s pricey and a bit of a pain to install, but it comes with its own pipes with larger inlet/outlet diameters, so that saves some cash.

And it bolts to the crash bumper, so it’s super solid.

It’ll take 5-6mo for me to get some hot weather track day logs, but the 95F ambient back to back pull logs I did last summer look pretty good!

In that weather, how much over ambient are the IAT typically? And yes, I did see all the hardward it comes with, including the Charge Pipe and bumper, which actually makes the cost actually more reasonable.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

In that weather, how much over ambient are the IAT typically? And yes, I did see all the hardward it comes with, including the Charge Pipe and bumper, which actually makes the cost actually more reasonable.

Here's what I noticed and have in various logs from last summer. The deltas are definitely smaller in cooler weather when the engine, radiator, etc, aren't as hot, so look at these as extreme values.

Also remember I'm pushing 442whp@5500rpm & 507wft-lbs@2600rpm (~520/600 engine hp/ft-lbs) with 20.5-20.9psi target and this is real world data, not a "best case scenario" starting off with a cooled off IC, doing single pull data using lower powered cars than this, like the IC manufacturers do.

In addition, IAT temp rise (or fall) and the temp delta to ambient are two different measures that may not be clear to some folks. The values below are absolute values above ambient in different scenarios, not the IAT rise/fall trend under load.

The general IAT trend for the Evo3 when you're applying throttle is temps drop in gears 1-2-3, stay flat in 4, and begin to creep up in 5, which is pretty darn impressive.

I get the feeling that the ambient delta for other IC's may be better when cruising around town or at part load, but this thing performs when you're WOT and really pushing it. But, I haven't seen anyone else with as much data pushing one of the big IC's as hard as I have with the Evo3, just some single pull VRSF & ER data from the manufacturers--so, IDK their real world performance.

Everyday driving (95F ambient):
Very slow stop-and-go/bumper-to-bumper traffic: +30-35F
25mph cruising around town: +20-25F
75mph cruising highway: +15F

Logging (95F ambient):
End of first pull: +12F
End of 3rd & 4th combo pull: +15F
End of 3rd/4th/5th combo pull: +19F
End of 10+ back-to-back 3-4/3-4-5 pulls with hard braking in between: +28F

Cooler weather example (34F ambient):
75mph cruising highway: +6F
End of first pull: +6F
End of 3rd & 4th combo pull: +8F
End of 3rd/4th/5th combo pull: +13F

[akkando]

So I attempted to take some logs today but couldn't stay in Mexico long. Wagner Comp Evo 2 intercooler and BM3 stage 1 ACN tune. Ambient temp unfortunately was only 55-60 degrees F.

This log is just cruising the highway. As you can see IAT was like 11-12 degrees above ambient.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6042...729b5994d9ea9e


Some pulls with the highest IATs. Ambient was 57. Highest IAT was 84 after two pulls and then coasting for a while. The IAT went down as soon as I was on throttle again.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6042...729b5a22cd1188


Here I am just fooling around on the highway with little pulls here and there. Ambient is 56 degrees F and IAT start at 79 but get lower and hover low 70s.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6042...729b5a22cd11aa



My conclusion is that for the STREET for my state of tune I don't think I will have IAT problems at any ambient less than 80 degrees. I just generally can't be pushing the motor more than this because I can't get to the top of fourth on these roads and I can't find roads where I can do back to back to back pulls often enough that the intercooler heatsoaks and doesn't cool down. Also on back roads with curves I can't be flat out long enough to heat soak the intercooler.

Is there a better intercooler that's cheaper? I am sure of it. Does this intercooler do the job for my use case? It does. Would this work for someone who is in 95 degree weather most of the year or on the track? I doubt it.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Good morning.

Would anyone with an ER intercooler provide me with its weight and fin density, please?

If you a Wagner, can you please measure the fin density as well?

Saw these shots on a for sale post. Maybe you can figure it out from the images.


Wagner Evo 2 Comp https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1788934

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by akkando

Saw these shots on a for sale post. Maybe you can figure it out from the images.


Wagner Evo 2 Comp https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1788934

Fin density looks low, and this is likely why the Evo has ‘good throttle response’ - the core’s fins are less dense than all but Ebay cores. This explains the Evo’s lighter weight and poor absolute cooling performance (compared to its peers)

I thank you for doing the legwork for this, and the logs. The Evo2 is a good street cooler, but even without all the data I’ve seen, I could assume it’s not ready for stage 2 or track use.

[AmuroRay]

Good afternoon,

Did you ever get the IC installed? Eagerly waiting for your review.

[pal]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Good afternoon,

Did you ever get the IC installed? Eagerly waiting for your review.

I have not installed the Intercooler yet. Want to get some data on the stock unit in a couple of different conditions before swapping over. In WA that means likely in late summer.

On Sat, I was at The Ridge Motorsports park (my home track). This has a long front straight where you enter at around 50'ish mph in 3rd gear and get to around 132-135mph in 5th before braking for T1 that is around a 90mph turn. On Sat, the ambient temp was around 50°F. For 3 20 minute sessions, I would enter the straight at around 100°F for IAT and end at 120-124°F; every shift would drop the temp by a few degrees only to climb back up. The rest of the track has enough in terms of pace and slowdowns that IAT stayed below 90°F - average I'd say was 75-82°F. I was using an Ultraguage connected to OBD II and data was visual reference. I did not experience any timing pull or loss of power. Top speed at the end of the straight was consistent lap after lap.

Oh, another thing is how quickly the stock Intercooler sheds IAT as soon as you're off boost.

[pal]

Here are 5 laps to give you a sense of pace and consistency.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by pal

I have not installed the Intercooler yet. Want to get some data on the stock unit in a couple of different conditions before swapping over. In WA that means likely in late summer.

On Sat, I was at The Ridge Motorsports park (my home track). This has a long front straight where you enter at around 50'ish mph in 3rd gear and get to around 132-135mph in 5th before braking for T1 that is around a 90mph turn. On Sat, the ambient temp was around 50°F. For 3 20 minute sessions, I would enter the straight at around 100°F for IAT and end at 120-124°F; every shift would drop the temp by a few degrees only to climb back up. The rest of the track has enough in terms of pace and slowdowns that IAT stayed below 90°F - average I'd say was 75-82°F. I was using an Ultraguage connected to OBD II and data was visual reference. I did not experience any timing pull or loss of power. Top speed at the end of the straight was consistent lap after lap.

Oh, another thing is how quickly the stock Intercooler sheds IAT as soon as you're off boost.

Fun and beautiful track. There are some fingernail marks by me dug into the passenger door grab of a BMW Performance School M3 bc of my buddy trying to keep up with an instructor (who was a national drift champion) and went into T1 at about 105mph on PSS’s, the rear started to rotate, and I instantly knew we were going off. Luckily MDM saved his ass and he only dropped two tires. He has the least experience in our group so I’m glad I convinced him to keep MDM on! That’s a super fun corner when you nail it, scary as hell when you don’t!

I got the autox fastest time of the week a few years ago at M Track Days, but I wasn’t actually registered bc a cpl of the instructors (that I raced with) invited us out to Seattle. No free trip to Thermal, damnit!

Anywho, 75F IAT above ambient is pretty nuts. The car def makes less power as IATs go up unless you’ve got high ethanol or octane in your fuel, and timing is def pulled with IAT >110F—you just may not have noticed it for the last bit of the front straight.

It’ll be interesting to see the IAT impact of the ER IC, and daily driving impressions. Thanks for posting up some info!

[pal]

105mph through T1 takes a special set of "skills" to even attempt. And I am not surprised he did not stick it - should have kept it straight and stayed on the brakes and the car would have slowed down before the track ends or just past. I'm usually in the 88-92 range at T1 apex - there are a few more mph to be had, but it makes the next complex (T2/T3/T4) more difficult to get right and carry momentum. It's a fun track and has a nice mix of elevation, speed and technical bits.

I was kinda surprised at the peak IATs on the front straight as well, given ambient was 50°F. What does a timing pull even feel like, if at all? If it's happening, I certainly don't notice it. I only had WA 92 octane in the tank. No octane booster or anything else. What's the word on Boostane or Race Gas octane boosters on a car with stock cats (or just with cats in general)?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by pal

105mph through T1 takes a special set of "skills" to even attempt. And I am not surprised he did not stick it - should have kept it straight and stayed on the brakes and the car would have slowed down before the track ends or just past. I'm usually in the 88-92 range at T1 apex - there are a few more mph to be had, but it makes the next complex (T2/T3/T4) more difficult to get right and carry momentum. It's a fun track and has a nice mix of elevation, speed and technical bits.

I was kinda surprised at the peak IATs on the front straight as well, given ambient was 50°F. What does a timing pull even feel like, if at all? If it's happening, I certainly don't notice it. I only had WA 92 octane in the tank. No octane booster or anything else. What's the word on Boostane or Race Gas octane boosters on a car with stock cats (or just with cats in general)?

Special is one word, dumb is another. He learned his lesson to respect T1.

It sounds like you're not getting above 110F IAT until the end of the straight, so you're probably focused on braking and turning for T1 and may not notice the timing pull. It just feels like the car has slightly less power, and it's hard to pick up on unless it's summer and happening all the time.

It could also be that you're not actually hitting >110F IAT while under power and it spikes up once you start braking for T1 with reduced airflow over the IC. In that case you wouldn't feel power pulled, but it will reduce available power getting back on the gas coming out of the corner. Again, more noticeable in summer, but it is happening.

I'd say all it's going to take is a 70F ambient day for you to start to notice these things bc your IATs will start going 130F+.

[AmuroRay]

I have an IC on my car now (unkown brand) and it does NOT hold up. LOL, I looked back at my logs and it's hitting 130F iats during some of my pulls. Can't wait to change this garbage out.

[pal]

It's definitely over 115°F for the second half of the straight, close to 120 at the top of 4th gear, drops a couple of degrees during the shift and climbs back up to 122-124° before I brake for T1. The car is over 110 for most of the straight ...

AmuroRay, I am surprised you're running some random brand Intercooler

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by pal

It's definitely over 115°F for the second half of the straight, close to 120 at the top of 4th gear, drops a couple of degrees during the shift and climbs back up to 122-124° before I brake for T1. The car is over 110 for most of the straight ...

AmuroRay, I am surprised you're running some random brand Intercooler

Well, all I’ll say is you’ve probably seen some of the threads with guys running crappy CA gas, getting high IATs on track, and imploding their motors. Your gas is better, but it’s still only 92...

IMO, you have enough data to support putting the ER on before your next track visit.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by pal

It's definitely over 115°F for the second half of the straight, close to 120 at the top of 4th gear, drops a couple of degrees during the shift and climbs back up to 122-124° before I brake for T1. The car is over 110 for most of the straight ...

AmuroRay, I am surprised you're running some random brand Intercooler

I never even cared about this stuff until I couldn't get a straight answer myself.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1661914

Check the wonderful IATs on that. When I bought the car, it already had a MPE, DP, IC and JB4. I sold the JB4, moved to MHD but otherwise I haven't done anything else.

When I asked inquired about an intercooler, no one could give me a satisfactory answer. I've been wishywashy about if I wanted to continue to mod the car or go back to stock, so I really haven't done anything since.

[bentom2]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Well, all I’ll say is you’ve probably seen some of the threads with guys running crappy CA gas, getting high IATs on track, and imploding their motors. Your gas is better, but it’s still only 92...

IMO, you have enough data to support putting the ER on before your next track visit.

Here’s a visual of the IAT on the front straight at the ridge, from the day prior to when Pal was tracking temps. I believe outside temp was in the 40s during this lap. Unfortunately, I don’t know Harry’s well enough to get numerical read outs of the IAT (yellow) line on the graph, but it looks like it reached ~120f and stayed there for the majority of the straight. Seems to drop off immediately as I get to T1 and out of the throttle.

For the record, I agree with your assessment that Pal has all the data he should need to go ahead and install the intercooler.

[AmuroRay]

I’m going to run a log this morning if I can. I want to give a good before/after comparison.
This morning - stock tune, 58F-62F - IAT as low as 10F over and as high as 20F. Stock tune, no full WOT. I'm going to continue compiling a few logs tonight, hopefully stock tune vs custom 2-3-4 runs.

[AmuroRay]

Hey OP, any update on this?

[pal]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Hey OP, any update on this?

So much peer pressure

I have a track event this weekend and another in 2 weeks. I can tackle it after that - will keep this thread updated for sure.