[flinchy]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Drop two cylinders of the Autoexpress article.

BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive.

So owners who want real power/torque will have to swap in an n55? Or hardcore ones the s55?

Going 4cyl is literally the worst decision they could make for the brand imo

Having the 235i and probably 1m faster than it is no bueno

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Back to the M2. Based on initial sketches.

You will know an M2 as it will be very different from an M235i in its stance and muscular bodywork.

The appearance leads on from the M235i Race car , typical facia with upturned central intake , aerodynamic spoilers around the outline of the brake intake with additional air curtain. The breather on the front wing will occupy the full length.

There is a wider track so both front and rear arches will be pronounced to accommodate 19" wheels. Although 18" will be offered.
Signature quad M exhaust ports with aerodynamic developed diffuser and a double edged Carbon fibre roof will be standard.

That sounds amazing, almost to good to be true. Hope they make it light enough and with a responsive and considerably high reving turbocharged 4cyl that will make it a truly balanced and great handling car.

[Seagull]

Disclaimer: My thoughts purely based on nothing....Except with one thought - The M2 will be about the future like the i8 but with a different angle. Also, I am not a gear head or track junkie.

The new M2 will be influenced on the i8 and M3/M4 usage of CFRP. The M3/M4 was the first experiment in a "normal" car and as small step, but the M2 will continue the usage of CFRP towards the the i8/i3's usage at a higher rate. And not a baby step.

Because the focus is on weight, this means HP to a degree. But more importantly bhp/ton will be the measurement. Don't necessarily expect a near 400hp car. But in terms of numbers there are some standards/benchmarks it must beat. It has to be better/higher than the stock M235i regardless of bhp/ton. But there was also talk of another PPK/tune for the M235i so it has to leave room for that ( and the money it will generate). My guess 360-375 for the M2. That leaves room a ppk to of 340-350 for the M235i.

I know I'm purely dreaming but eventually the future is CFRP everywhere in BMW. If that's the case, it has to start with the "i's" but the next logical flowdown of that is the M's. Now if that's the case, as other's have said, to maintain the 50/50 balance, something must be done about the engine. The engine is only a problem up until their target is met. Their target will be a reflection of the new world bhp/ton, and not some old world heavy hp number. If I were pitching an idea, I would ask to Frankenstein a car together like the 1M... ( wait that sounds familiar ) and prove this concept

So my proof of concept would be, take the shell/suspension of an i8. Ram a conventional suspension in it. Ram a 28i engine in it. What do you think the bhp/ton would be? What's the M3/M4s?

And instead of doing it gradually, why not do it in a huge step to leapfrog the competition. And remember all those "I" engineers will be in part rolling off the "I" project, so their mind's will be available to pick from the M division.

Is this dream:

• Heavily medicated, vision induced dream
• Amsterdam in Germany
• A waking vision
• A premonition

[ezmaass]

I could see BMW attempting a high revving 4 for the M2, but I'm not sure how it would pan out with the M235 having a nice turbo 6, easily tuned for 100 more HP? I'm also not yet a fan of the 4-bangers. Yes they're lighter, but they're just too rough around the edges for me. Power delivery feels unrefined. There's something to be said about the buttery feel of BMW inline 6 engines. I'd probably consider tuning an M235 before buying the M2 if it came with a 4 cylinder. After all, getting the M235 over 400hp wouldn't be rocket science.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by flinchy

So owners who want real power/torque will have to swap in an n55? Or hardcore ones the s55?

Going 4cyl is literally the worst decision they could make for the brand imo

Having the 235i and probably 1m faster than it is no bueno

I think that power won't be the "point" of this car--more about handling and balance. My opinion of course...

You want big power, I think you get an M3/4...or if you can swing it, an M5/6. The comment above about "soul less" seems more bent on feel and handling, rather than grunt...

BMW has shown a propensity to "slot" their respective power figures based on the model and price range. I wouldn't expect this to be any different.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Seagull

Disclaimer: My thoughts purely based on nothing....Except with one thought - The M2 will be about the future like the i8 but with a different angle. Also, I am not a gear head or track junkie.

The new M2 will be influenced on the i8 and M3/M4 usage of CFRP. The M3/M4 was the first experiment in a "normal" car and as small step, but the M2 will continue the usage of CFRP towards the the i8/i3's usage at a higher rate. And not a baby step.

Because the focus is on weight, this means HP to a degree. But more importantly bhp/ton will be the measurement. Don't necessarily expect a near 400hp car. But in terms of numbers there are some standards/benchmarks it must beat. It has to be better/higher than the stock M235i regardless of bhp/ton. But there was also talk of another PPK/tune for the M235i so it has to leave room for that ( and the money it will generate). My guess 360-375 for the M2. That leaves room a ppk to of 340-350 for the M235i.

I know I'm purely dreaming but eventually the future is CFRP everywhere in BMW. If that's the case, it has to start with the "i's" but the next logical flowdown of that is the M's. Now if that's the case, as other's have said, to maintain the 50/50 balance, something must be done about the engine. The engine is only a problem up until their target is met. Their target will be a reflection of the new world bhp/ton, and not some old world heavy hp number. If I were pitching an idea, I would ask to Frankenstein a car together like the 1M... ( wait that sounds familiar ) and prove this concept

So my proof of concept would be, take the shell/suspension of an i8. Ram a conventional suspension in it. Ram a 28i engine in it. What do you think the bhp/ton would be? What's the M3/M4s?

And instead of doing it gradually, why not do it in a huge step to leapfrog the competition. And remember all those "I" engineers will be in part rolling off the "I" project, so their mind's will be available to pick from the M division.

Is this dream:

• Heavily medicated, vision induced dream
• Amsterdam in Germany
• A waking vision
• A premonition

Interesting idea, but would that type car price itself out of the general range that one would expect to find the M2? I can't imagine the M2 starting much more than 51-52K here in the US...that gives it coverage between the M235 and the M3/4.

SCOTT mentioned a CFRP roof, which the 1M didn't have, but perhaps the technology will be better positioned price-wise by then, that it isn't prohibitive in this range.

We shall see...

[HBspeed]

All this inevitable 4 vs 6 cylinder talk makes me wonder...

What is keeping M from taking the S55, ripping out the turbos and all associated plumbing, intercoolers, etc. Saving a good amount of weight in the process. And then tuning that base S55 engine the best they can on whatever their budget?

I would image people would go nuts for this Naturally aspirated S55 in an M2. It would avoid the inevitable M235i comparisons of having a 4 cylinder, and make all the enthusiasts and cylinder number lovers beyond happy.

What would the weight difference really be between a hypothetical S20 and an S55 without the turbos and all associated plumbing, intercoolers, etc.? Can't be that big I would imagine.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance

I agree, unless there are plans to up the power on the M3/M4 there won't be much room to squeeze this car in between the M235i and M3

My guess is the ZCP upgrade for the F8X will bring a nice boost in performance about the same time the M2 is out. That will help the gap.

[Aust350z]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive.

BMW may want an I4 but good point raised earlier where 87% said want was I6.

After driving a A45 it reminded me more of the Golf R than anything else. I was impressed, particularly at the price point in Aus. Can't wait for BMW to blow my mind in two years.

Knowing it'll be a I4 deal-breakers for me will be:
- no lag on spool (unlike A45)
- sporty exhaust note

My wishlist includes...
- Performance seats standard
- DCT
- CCB
- 0-100 4.5 secs
- colourful colour palette!

[jstnstr]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

All this inevitable 4 vs 6 cylinder talk makes me wonder...

What is keeping M from taking the S55, ripping out the turbos and all associated plumbing, intercoolers, etc. Saving a good amount of weight in the process. And then tuning that base S55 engine the best they can on whatever their budget?

I don't really think that is a plausible option, only because it is an engine built for forced induction, not NA. But what I don't understand is why can they not build a naturally aspirated inline 6 like what was in the E46 M3? With 8-9 years more of technology they should easily be able to extract 350-360 hp out of a naturally aspirated and high revving inline 6 about 3-3.2 liters in capacity. THAT is what I would like to see.

At the time the S54 was the highest output naturally aspirated engine in production (short of the million dollar McLaren F1), how fucking exciting of a prospect is that? Not only that but the critical acclaim the car received- why wouldnt BMW want to re-create that car? With the advancements in CFRP they should easily be able to make a 3200lb M2 with a 350-360hp inline 6 revving to 8000rpm. That car would rip.

[Aust350z]

Originally Posted by jstnstr

But what I don't understand is why can they not build a naturally aspirated inline 6 like what was in the E46 M3?

Fuel-efficiency.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

I think some of the previous Evo, STI, and other tc-4 campers would disagree.

If done right, a lightweight 4 cylinder engine in a light weight chassis would be pretty epic. Water to air intercooler from the M4, higher boost, OMG=sex.

Test drive a 328i and 335i and tell me which one is lighter to the touch...

I'll answer that for you. I own an f30 335i sport and I love it. With that being said when my car was at the shop overnight I've had numerous f30 328 with M sport package.
The 328 felt better, more nimbler, and felt every bit as fast as my 335i. Yes in your words lighter to the seat of the pants feel. Plus the m sport looks way better. Til this day I regret not choosing an m sport 328i and saving thousands and having twice the fun.

Originally Posted by ezmaass

I could see BMW attempting a high revving 4 for the M2, but I'm not sure how it would pan out with the M235 having a nice turbo 6, easily tuned for 100 more HP? I'm also not yet a fan of the 4-bangers. Yes they're lighter, but they're just too rough around the edges for me. Power delivery feels unrefined. There's something to be said about the buttery feel of BMW inline 6 engines. I'd probably consider tuning an M235 before buying the M2 if it came with a 4 cylinder. After all, getting the M235 over 400hp wouldn't be rocket science.

Not to burst your bubble but tuning this new Bosh ecu to deliver another 100 hp, you're dreaming big there. It's proven quite to be a PITA to tune. BMW has outsmarted everyone so far.
400hp is reaching at the very least on an m235i. If there were a good reliable tune available I would have had one with most of the other members on here.

PPK or a JB pick your poison but neither will give you anything near the figure you're after.

[bimmerJP]

I really hope M2 will be a reality, however, I highly doubt BMW would want to make one. M2 would totally destroy M3/M4 sale and that is the last thing BMW wants. I really hope BMW is crazy though and M2 might come to life. We can always hope right?

[jstnstr]

Originally Posted by Aust350z

Fuel-efficiency.

They couldn't make an NA inline 6 as fuel efficient as an FI inline 6?

16/24 was what the E46 got, but I am sure they could improve upon that which isnt even that bad.

[Aust350z]

Originally Posted by bimmerJP

I really hope M2 will be a reality, however, I highly doubt BMW would want to make one. M2 would totally destroy M3/M4 sale and that is the last thing BMW wants. I really hope BMW is crazy though and M2 might come to life. We can always hope right?

The second post in thread basically confirmed it's coming, and with a I4. First post highlights previous posts which explains why there is a 2-year delay which includes building M4 as mid-level coupe, opening up room for entry-level M2.

Originally Posted by jstnstr

They couldn't make an NA inline 6 as fuel efficient as an FI inline 6?

16/24 was what the E46 got, but I am sure they could improve upon that which isnt even that bad.

Yes they could - but not with the same performance.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by jstnstr

They couldn't make an NA inline 6 as fuel efficient as an FI inline 6?

16/24 was what the E46 got, but I am sure they could improve upon that which isnt even that bad.

I believe the E46 was subject to the gas guzzler tax--might be wrong but I thought so.

The problem isn't just gas mileage at this point--it is also based on fewer emissions as the standards get more strict. Turbo/supercharging an engine can (as I understand it) provide the umph without the cough.

[amdmaxx]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

360hp/340tq 29xxlbs DCT. Just going to leave this right here.

T

600lb drop over m235 won't happen

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I think that power won't be the "point" of this car--more about handling and balance. My opinion of course...

You want big power, I think you get an M3/4...or if you can swing it, an M5/6. The comment above about "soul less" seems more bent on feel and handling, rather than grunt...

BMW has shown a propensity to "slot" their respective power figures based on the model and price range. I wouldn't expect this to be any different.

you can still have the handling and 'balance' with the 6cyl motor in place.. it's only upsides really, a tiny bit more weight for WAY more power... as evidenced in the 1M.. imagine if they went all out ground up on the 1M like they did with the new M3/4.. CF hood/roof/boot from factory, that sorta thing... heck, the M3/M4 will be lighter than the 1M.. so seriously imagine it, even lighter and smaller than that yet again, with good power still!

no matter what way you look at it, the M235i would have to be a better base platform with the N55, if you wanted to go fast.. easier and cheaper to add widebody and suspension with a bigger turbo upgrade, unless the M2 has a seriously spectacular tough S20B20 with a rev limit at the moon or something.

the M2 would only really be good for showing that you can afford an 'M'.. and even then it'd be bad, since it's the base model 'M' lol.

[amdmaxx]

Originally Posted by bimmerJP

I really hope M2 will be a reality, however, I highly doubt BMW would want to make one. M2 would totally destroy M3/M4 sale and that is the last thing BMW wants. I really hope BMW is crazy though and M2 might come to life. We can always hope right?

Why? Did m3 destroy m5 sales? No. It's all going to same BMW pockets with more potential buyers with lower entry point for m car.

[imserious]

Originally Posted by Aust350z

Fuel-efficiency.

+1

The N/A days are over folks.

High revving 4cyl making 300+ hp, getting good gas mileage and being relatively affordable? That's a pipe dream.

BMW is pretty predictable. They are trying to be sporty, but efficient and profitable. Basically they do FI engines and play with cylinder counts. It will be a 4 cyl turbo.

Maybe the next generation of M cars will showcase hybrid tech. Until then it will be turbos and more turbos.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

600lb drop over m235 won't happen

The new G10 5 series is already in testing and down to F30 weights.....

BIG drops in weight are coming.

T

[335i2007]

M2 is what the M3/M4 should have been. In my opinion it's the only hope BMW has for an M car that can follow in the heritage of the previous M's.

I am tired of these bloated overweight cars with M badges slapped on them.