[apos4822]

Hey Y'all,

I'm new to the F87. I bought mine used, tuned with high quality bolt-ons, crankhub done. Tires are 285/35 rear and 265/35 front, Bridgestone Potenza Sport, 34 PSI all around. KW Coilovers, corner balanced alignment. According to my primary mechanic this is one of the "wildest, fastest M2's" he's ever driven - we still don't even know what kind of tune is on it but I'm not complaining.

So here's my question to you: How do you get the rear tires to hook up? Whether it's accelerating onto a freeway or making sure I don't lose the tail in tight canyon switchbacks, I feel like I'm driving this car right on the edge of danger even at half throttle (which is it's own kind of fun). No matter what speed I'm going, what gear I'm in, the tires absolutely spin out of control at full throttle. Turning on traction control or MDM neuters the car so badly that it shuts the whole thing down. The mechanics I go to are all track-seasoned with a lot of seat time, and they are all a little surprised by how slippery and powerful the car is at the rear.

My main mechanic advised me to keep the car on boil between 3-4000 RPM in the canyons. Anything higher than that might land me in major trouble, the car will get away from me. On the one hand, it's incredibly thrilling. On the other, I wish I could experience how hard this car can accelerate if the tires would hook up for once. Maybe that's just the nature of the beast, maybe there's something I can do to get more rear wheel traction - so I ask you all for your feedback.

I'm coming from a mid-engined Porsche which lives right at the redline in the canyons. A very different animal with a lot of poise, it's own kind of fun. No trouble getting the traction down in that car, but it also doesn't have boost.

[Mahduece]

Welcome to the fun torque monster m2 world. And there is the main issue, too much torque.

There are several suspension and alignment tricks you should do/get to help put power down better. But, first and foremost, is to get a new tune or adjust current tune to reduce your torque. Even a stage 1 tune has too much torque to really use below 3rd gear. Good tuners can set you up with a smoother and lower torque curve.

If you have BM3 tunes you can adjust torque by gear until you are happy. If you don’t know your tune then your option is to get BM3 and then tune or contact tuners to do it for you.

[apos4822]

Mahduece - thank you. My mechanic is an experienced BM3 specialist so perhaps that is one route to go, he did suggest it. I didn't realize how customizable a BM3 tune could be. On the other hand, maybe embracing the full torque monstrosity is part of the thrill. It seems, in some ways, like a modern version of Porsche's 930 "Widowmaker" Turbos. Like I have to earn the ability to really drive the car at its limit.

[ThreeStripes]

You’re going to need a stickier 200tw tire. A 300tw Bridgestone Pilot Sport can’t cope. I run a 295/35/18 RE71RS on a 11” rear (+44 offset) and it holds stage 1 S55 power fine.

Now, there are trade offs. RT660, Nankang CR-S, RE71RS… these tires will hold the power but wear quickly, suck in rain, and pickup everything off the road. Good luck and enjoy

[M3SQRD]

Think of a line connecting the 3 and 9 pm locations on the steering wheel to the throttle pedal. For example, if you are turning left so the 3 pm position moved to 12 pm, the tension in the line from the steering wheel starting position and the throttle pedal would increase. Under this condition, you would not want to apply the throttle pedal. However, as you start to unwind the steering wheel, the tension in the line from the 3 pm position and the throttle starts to lose tension and, therefore, you can start to slowly roll into the throttle to maintain the tension in the line and the closer the steering wheel returns to its original unwound 3 pm position, the more aggressively you can apply the throttle until you reach max throttle. Keeping in mind the relationship between the tension in the imaginary line from the steering wheel 3 pm-9 pm positions and the throttle pedal will help you manage the % of throttle you can safely apply. Eventually, this will become instinctual and you’ll no longer have to think about the line, only the relationship between the steering wheel rotated position and the throttle pedal position.

I have a MY ‘16 f82 with the torque peak below 2k rpm and I prefer it to the later s55s with the peak torque raised above 2k rpm. I run a GTS engine tune on track and I have no problems putting the power down.

[XutvJet]

Man, that's a REALLY tough change. I recently replaced my tuned 2016 M235 6mt with a bonestock 2018 M2 DCT. I also own a stock base model 265hp 2011 Cayman 6MT. Last weekend, I went out on a B road run with a couple Cayman friends (2007 Cayman Base and 2009 Cayman Base). While the M2 DCT is miles better handling, braking, and power wise compared to my old M235, it simply doesn't hold a candle to the handling dynamics and confidence of a Cayman. I couldn't keep up and those cars only had 245-265hp. I could run them down on the straights, but as the curves piled on, they kept gaining more and more distance. A Cayman is more of a precision tool. The M2, a bit of a sledge hammer and more muscle car like.

I'd suggest dialing the power back and/or retuning for more of a linear power delivery. Turbo cars can be a huge handful, especially when torque overwhelms the tires at an unexpected time.

[IsoM2]

I would put a bigger and stickier tyre on the car and maybe even rear arms/ bushing etc.

[annabellapizza]

Might help flashing the Euro mdm which is less restrictive than the US one for traction control and slip

[Disgustipated]

Originally Posted by apos4822

Hey Y'all,

I'm new to the F87. I bought mine used, tuned with high quality bolt-ons, crankhub done. Tires are 285/35 rear and 265/35 front, Bridgestone Potenza Sport, 34 PSI all around. KW Coilovers, corner balanced alignment. According to my primary mechanic this is one of the "wildest, fastest M2's" he's ever driven - we still don't even know what kind of tune is on it but I'm not complaining.

So here's my question to you: How do you get the rear tires to hook up? Whether it's accelerating onto a freeway or making sure I don't lose the tail in tight canyon switchbacks, I feel like I'm driving this car right on the edge of danger even at half throttle (which is it's own kind of fun). No matter what speed I'm going, what gear I'm in, the tires absolutely spin out of control at full throttle. Turning on traction control or MDM neuters the car so badly that it shuts the whole thing down. The mechanics I go to are all track-seasoned with a lot of seat time, and they are all a little surprised by how slippery and powerful the car is at the rear.

My main mechanic advised me to keep the car on boil between 3-4000 RPM in the canyons. Anything higher than that might land me in major trouble, the car will get away from me. On the one hand, it's incredibly thrilling. On the other, I wish I could experience how hard this car can accelerate if the tires would hook up for once. Maybe that's just the nature of the beast, maybe there's something I can do to get more rear wheel traction - so I ask you all for your feedback.

I'm coming from a mid-engined Porsche which lives right at the redline in the canyons. A very different animal with a lot of poise, it's own kind of fun. No trouble getting the traction down in that car, but it also doesn't have boost.

I have the same tires and zero issues with traction. Flash the S55 CS tune or a similar linear powerband tune and the car will drive a lot better.

[Mahduece]

OP, can you tell us what tune you are running and your current alignment specs?

[apos4822]

Mahduece - The tune is unknown to everyone who has looked at it, they all just say it's powerful AF. Even plugging the car into the computer they were not able to identify telltale signs of the tunes they usually use. The only suggestion I've received is shops suggesting to reflash to whatever tune they know well (often BM3).

Alignment specs - will have to see if my alignment specialist can pull those up for me, stand by.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

You’re going to need a stickier 200tw tire.

This.

71RS @ 29 psi should do it.

[apos4822]

ThreeStripes ///MPhatic - recommended 200TW tires for public roads/canyons? I drive my M2 around 2-3000 miles per year and most of it is just weekend fun, but I don't do any HPDE or track.

[ThreeStripes]

Tirerack has the Goodyear Supercar 3R available in 265/285 and they’re exceptional. They’ll provide much more traction and should hook up all of 2nd gear.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by apos4822

ThreeStripes ///MPhatic - recommended 200TW tires for public roads/canyons? I drive my M2 around 2-3000 miles per year and most of it is just weekend fun, but I don't do any HPDE or track.

200tw tires are fine for public roads, especially long-cycling versions like the 71RS, which can also deal with rain quite well.

The thing you don't want to do with a 200tw tire is get it cold. It should never see temps under 42°F.

I wear 100tw on my Exige on the street now, but I used to drive full slicks on the street every Summer.

100tw by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

[jondaah]

I have 600 wheel torque and 540whp on KW coils and 295 rear PS4S tires. PSI lower at 31-32psi plus making sure the tires are at least 100F helps. PSS was always on edge but PS4S does a lot of the work. I’d get a tackier compound or lower the psi. Also what’s size is your wheel? A stretched tire can give less play

[Beenz]

All responses are good suggestions for you. I will add two more observations:
1. Driving around with traction off (not even MDM) all the time is ‘bold’, especially if on a higher torque and power tune… if traction on kills it so much then you may have to seriously consider a retune to make it drivable
2. Stating the obvious a bit, but you need to drive it very differently to a Porsche. The appeal of the P car is it’s clinical delivery of power and traction… the appeal of M2 (any variant) is that it’s completely the opposite…

Have fun!

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Beenz

The appeal of the P car is it’s clinical delivery of power and traction… the appeal of M2 is that it’s completely the opposite…

Have fun!

So many miss these basic facts. Perfectly said.

[apos4822]

Beenz ///MPhatic - very much agree the thrill of the M2 is how rowdy it is, and I certainly didn't expect it to mimic the Porsche in any way, but it's the first car I've had that just refuses to do anything but spin the rear wheels if I give it more than like 30% throttle in almost any gear. I've owned rear drive 6MT BMWs with tunes in the past but this M2 DCT feels unique in a good way, just need to recalibrate my brain to it. The Porsche does feel clinical as you put it. The M2 has a wonderful sense of humor - I just don't want the comedy to kill me. I did notice after an hour in the canyons my rhythm, control and ability to carve without unwanted disruptions from the tail spinning really improved dramatically.

///MPhatic - wow, what a car! Where I live in SoCal ambient temps are mostly above 80F, often 100F with a short winter where daytime temps are in the 50F range. I take time to warm up the whole car because it takes 30-45 mins just to get to good driving roads. So I may be a good candidate for 200TW tires. Do you have to deal with far more paint chips and scrapes on your car as a result of the stickier tires?

jondaah - Fronts: 19x9.5 et22 Apex EC7RS on 265/35/19 Bridgestone Potenza Sport
Rears: 19x10.5 Apex EC7RS et45 on 285/35/19 Bridgestone Potenza Sport.
The TPMS shows tire pressures of 33-34PSI most of the time, occasionally rising to 35 or 36 on a hot day.
The Porsche is different - tire pressures will rise 5PSI based on TPMS reading once the car gets warmed up, no matter the time of year.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by apos4822

///MPhatic - wow, what a car! Where I live in SoCal ambient temps are mostly above 80F, often 100F with a short winter where daytime temps are in the 50F range. I take time to warm up the whole car because it takes 30-45 mins just to get to good driving roads. So I may be a good candidate for 200TW tires. Do you have to deal with far more paint chips and scrapes on your car as a result of the stickier tires?

Absolutely, it's part of the price of admission.

All you really need covered is what should have been covered from the factory, which is the rocker, entire quarter panel, and the section behind the rear wheel.

[ThreeStripes]

The throttle sensitivity that’s configured may also be a contributing factor in play here. Bend Calibration offer a linear throttle calibration and it makes metering out the torque much easier.

[Neusser]

Drop your tire pressures, particularly in the rear.

Sport Auto (a very respected mag over here in Germany) ran their M2 at 2.5/2.0 bar F/R on the 'Ring and 2.2/2.2 at Hockenheim.

Those would be warm pressures. So if you use those as cold pressures, you should be in similar territory on the street once your tires warm up a bit.

These pressures are much lower than the stock 2.6/2.6 (which I also find too nervous and tail happy). The pressures for the 'Ring in particular will settle the rear, as the rear axle will be putting down more rubber.