[VGSON]

Found this set nearby…im not too familiar with brake setups yet. Any advice about these? front set only. My car has the blue brakes currently

[M3SQRD]

It appears to be a kit someone has thrown together. The 355 mm to 390 mm rotor OD options is strange because they offer only an AP Racing CP9660 six-piston front caliper. It would be nice to see the caliper QR code and part number to see whether it’s an authentic AP Radi-cal 5000R caliper. The rotors themselves appear to be a no-name brand (not AP, not Girodisc and not Paragon). The caliper adapter bracket is hard to see clearly but I can’t tell if they’re using helicoils or something similar or just threading straight into aluminum.

Who makes this kit and what’s the price?

[Chris N]

Good advice checking the authenticity.

I bought a used set from a member here last year. The first question Essex asked me when I called them to send the calipers in for rebuild was if I was sure they were real AP/Essex. I didn't realize there were fakes out there.

[VGSON]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

It appears to be a kit someone has thrown together. The 355 mm to 390 mm rotor OD options is strange because they offer only an AP Racing CP9660 six-piston front caliper. It would be nice to see the caliper QR code and part number to see whether it’s an authentic AP Radi-cal 5000R caliper. The rotors themselves appear to be a no-name brand (not AP, not Girodisc and not Paragon). The caliper adapter bracket is hard to see clearly but I can’t tell if they’re using helicoils or something similar or just threading straight into aluminum.

Who makes this kit and what’s the price?

Looking for links to the “kit”…price is really good. why im interested..will ask for qr code, part numbers..

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by VGSON

Looking for links to the “kit”…price is really good. why im interested..will ask for qr code, part numbers.

How did you find the pictures without the link?

Definitely ask who makes the rotors because if this company goes out of business and they were the only ones supplying the brake rotors then you’re in trouble when it’s time to replace rotors. The rotor quality doesn’t look to be equivalent to AP Racing J hook rotors, Girodisc curved grove rotors and Paragon curved grove rotors. If the price of a genuine AP Racing 5000R CP9660 caliper brake kit is “really good” then I’d be concerned about the legitimacy of the kit. There are plenty of counterfeit AP Racing kits out there.

[VGSON]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

How did you find the pictures without the link?

Definitely ask who makes the rotors because if this company goes out of business and they were the only ones supplying the brake rotors then you’re in trouble when it’s time to replace rotors. The rotor quality doesn’t look to be equivalent to AP Racing J hook rotors, Girodisc curved grove rotors and Paragon curved grove rotors. If the price of a genuine AP Racing 5000R CP9660 caliper brake kit is “really good” then I’d be concerned about the legitimacy of the kit. There are plenty of counterfeit AP Racing kits out there.

Seen the for sale ad from nearby poster. The legitimacy of the set is what im trying to determine..along with if this is a true ap 5000r; would it be too much for mostly street... I had same concerns about rotors as they didn’t match what i have seen on places like Essex and the like. I have same concerns..Trying to get seller to verify authenticity

[Westersund]

Doesn't all genuine AP 5000 R come with J-hook discs?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by VGSON

Seen the for sale ad from nearby poster. The legitimacy of the set is what im trying to determine..along with if this is a true ap 5000r; would it be too much for mostly street... I had same concerns about rotors as they didn’t match what i have seen on places like Essex and the like. I have same concerns..Trying to get seller to verify authenticity

Originally Posted by Westersund

Doesn't all genuine AP 5000 R come with J-hook discs?

It’s clearly a kit put together by someone other than Essex. The rotors appear to be inferior to AP J hook, Girodisc and Paragon. It also does not look like the rotors used on the BimmerWorld/Alcon brake kits. I’d be very concerned about the quality of the rotors which are a major safety item on your car.

The 355, 362, 378 and 390 mm OD brake rotors, except for the 378 mm OD brake rotor, are not the proper size for any f8x M2, M3 or M4. The largest diameter the CP9660 can use is a 380 mm OD rotor. The fact that a 390 mm OD rotor is an option suggests this kit isn’t put together well and doesn’t fall within the specs of the CP9660 brake caliper.

Also, if you assume for a minute that this kit is genuine, there should be four different sized brake caliper adapter brackets to fit the four different sized rotors. The quality of the design and machining of the brake caliper adapter looks like it is a lower quality adapter compared to Essex.

[M3SQRD]

It’s a kit put together in the UK. Assuming the AP Racing CP9660 are authentic, you’re not saving that much at £3305 ($4170) + shipping for a kit with inferior rotors. The option for a 390 mm OD rotor which is out of spec for the CP9660 is suspect and the 356 mm OD and 362 mm OD are odd rotor ODs for a f8x kit. Essex is having a Black Friday sale right now so I’d play it safe and get the Essex/AP Racing CP9660 with 372 mm OD for $4769 with Ferodo DS2500 pads.

https://www.wgmotorworks.co.uk/produ...ake-kit-front/

[VGSON]

yeah im passing on this “kit”.

so..which brake pads are yall running for daily’s? looking for better stopping power and less dust..

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by VGSON

yeah im passing on this “kit”.

so..which brake pads are yall running for daily’s? looking for better stopping power and less dust..

Porterfield R4S for less dust and Ferodo DS2500 for more stopping power. Shoot us a private message if you have any questions about brakes.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by VGSON

yeah im passing on this “kit”.

so..which brake pads are yall running for daily’s? looking for better stopping power and less dust..

Carbotech 1521, G-Lok GS-1 (99% identical to the 1521) and Cobalt XR5 are good street performance pads with minimal dust. The Porterfield R4S are a good option, too, but the amount of dust generated can vary with the R4S (not the R4 which is a track pad). My set had minor dust (~90% less than stock) but I’ve heard and seen some sets with moderate dust (~40% less than stock).

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Carbotech 1521, G-Lok GS-1 (99% identical to the 1521) and Cobalt XR5 are good street performance pads with minimal dust. The Porterfield R4S are a good option, too, but the amount of dust generated can vary with the R4S (not the R4 which is a track pad). My set had minor dust (~90% less than stock) but I’ve heard and seen some sets with moderate dust (~40% less than stock).

Currently running the R4S, great street pad but a bit dusty. I haven’t been able to figure out if the pads you listed fit AP 9660 & 9440?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by VGSON

yeah im passing on this “kit”.

so..which brake pads are yall running for daily’s? looking for better stopping power and less dust..

The Akebono pads are going to be the very best out there (for an OG) with regards to less dust, color of dust, braking feel, and rotor preservation. Probably 30% better than the closest competitor which is the G-Loc GS1, which is nearly the same as the Redstuff pads.

Akebono 1880 & 1656 FTW.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

The Akebono pads are going to be the very best out there (for an OG) with regards to less dust, color of dust, braking feel, and rotor preservation. Probably 30% better than the closest competitor which is the G-Loc GS1, which is nearly the same as the Redstuff pads.

Akebono 1880 & 1656 FTW.

Also don’t think these fit the APs?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Currently running the R4S, great street pad but a bit dusty. I haven’t been able to figure out if the pads you listed fit AP 9660 & 9440?

I agree. The R4S is a great street performance brake pad. The set I had in my e46 M3 from 2003-2005 generated virtually no dust. Everyone I’ve talked to have said they are dusty so I’m a bit hesitant to recommend them as a low dust performance street pad.

Yes. The 1521, which I’ve used for 25 years as a street pad in stock and fixed calipers, the GS-1 (the family that owns Carbotech disagreed on the direction to take the company so some of the family left and started G-Loc) and the XR5 all have pad options to fit the AP Racing 9660 and 9449/9451 (is 9440 a typo? 9440 caliper max rotor diameter is 330 mm). Carbotech has the pad profile defined by the AP caliper number. G-LOC offers them but they may be listed by the PFC pad number. CP9660 is PFC 7790 and CP9449/9452 is PFC 7768 (typically made by increasing the IR of the PFC 7769 pad). The Cobalt CP9668 pad is AP19 and you need to specify the pad thickness. The Cobalt CP9449/9451 pad is the AP13. I’d give the Cobalt XR5 if you want something that performs very similar to the R4S and 1521. I’ve continued to use the 1521 compound because I have yet to run into a race pad incompatibility with the 1521 (I primarily use PFC but Cobalt and Carbotech are my backups if I can’t find the PFC compounds I’m looking for).

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I agree. The R4S is a great street performance brake pad. The set I had in my e46 M3 from 2003-2005 generated virtually no dust. Everyone I’ve talked to have said they are dusty so I’m a bit hesitant to recommend them as a low dust performance street pad.

Yes. The 1521, which I’ve used for 25 years as a street pad in stock and fixed calipers, the GS-1 (the family that owns Carbotech disagreed on the direction to take the company so some of the family left and started G-Loc) and the XR5 all have pad options to fit the AP Racing 9660 and 9449/9451 (is 9440 a typo? 9440 caliper max rotor diameter is 330 mm). Carbotech has the pad profile defined by the AP caliper number. G-LOC offers them but they may be listed by the PFC pad number. CP9660 is PFC 7790 and CP9449/9452 is PFC 7768 (typically made by increasing the IR of the PFC 7769 pad). The Cobalt CP9668 pad is AP19 and you need to specify the pad thickness. The Cobalt CP9449/9451 pad is the AP13. I’d give the Cobalt XR5 if you want something that performs very similar to the R4S and 1521. I’ve continued to use the 1521 compound because I have yet to run into a race pad incompatibility with the 1521 (I primarily use PFC but Cobalt and Carbotech are my backups if I can’t find the PFC compounds I’m looking for).

Thanks! I’m running PFC 7790/7767 F/R pad shapes (AP 9660 front. Paragon PA025 rear, says CP3215D50, CP3215D46 fits).

Which of the three that you listed would you consider the most aggressive? Would prefer minimal decrease in performance while keeping the silent nature of the R4S, but less dust.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Thanks! I’m running PFC 7790/7767 F/R pad shapes (AP 9660 front. Paragon PA025 rear, says CP3215D50, CP3215D46 fits).

Which of the three that you listed would you consider the most aggressive? Would prefer minimal decrease in performance while keeping the silent nature of the R4S, but less dust.

The 7767 has a 49 mm pad radial depth (PRD) but the 9449/9451 calipers with the 365 mm OD rotor use a 41 mm PRD.

I’d say the Cobalt XR5 compound will be the closest to the R4S with a decent reduction of brake dust. Less of brake dust does result in a slight loss of performance. As an FYI, the Cobalt XR1 race compound is actually a solid race compound with the performance closest to my favorite PFC 05 compound (PFC 11 is an updated version but with a very progressive CoF curve). A lot of people aren’t even aware of Cobalt. I’ve used F/R XR1/XR1 on my e92 M3 with PFC Z31/Z31 (4 pads/caliper) calipers and it performed as well as the PFC F/R 11/11 on my e92 with PFC Z54/Z45 calipers. Another nice thing about Cobalt, just like Carbotech, they’ll make custom pads if you supply the pad backing plates. The Z31 pads were custom but now it’s one of their standard brake pads.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

The 7767 has a 49 mm pad radial depth (PRD) but the 9449/9451 calipers with the 365 mm OD rotor use a 41 mm PRD.

I’d say the Cobalt XR5 compound will be the closest to the R4S with a decent reduction of brake dust. Less of brake dust does result in a slight loss of performance. As an FYI, the Cobalt XR1 race compound is actually a solid race compound with the performance closest to my favorite PFC 05 compound (PFC 11 is an updated version but with a very progressive CoF curve). A lot of people aren’t even aware of Cobalt. I’ve used F/R XR1/XR1 on my e92 M3 with PFC Z31/Z31 (4 pads/caliper) calipers and it performed as well as the PFC F/R 11/11 on my e92 with PFC Z54/Z45 calipers. Another nice thing about Cobalt, just like Carbotech, they’ll make custom pads if you supply the pad backing plates. The Z31 pads were custom but now it’s one of their standard brake pads.

Great info.

I’ll try to source the 7790/7767 shapes for the XR5’s.

Btw, I’m running 378x36 front and 380x34 rear. I figured the larger 7767 pad shape would help shift more bias to the rear.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Also don’t think these fit the APs?

Sorry, I thought the AP kit was abandoned!

For the 2NH I know you can get the CarboTech 1521 and Redstuffs, but not sure about the AP caliper, sorry.

G-Loc does make the GS1 for the AP calipers on my Exige, which is what I have, and I'm happy with them, but they aren't as good as the Akebono's.

New Kicks. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Great info.

I’ll try to source the 7790/7767 shapes for the XR5’s.

Btw, I’m running 378x36 front and 380x34 rear. I figured the larger 7767 pad shape would help shift more bias to the rear.

What 7790 pad thickness are you using with a 378x36 mm rotor? The Essex/AP9660 caliper uses a 372x34 mm rotor with an 18 mm thick pad. How can you squeeze a 18 mm pad into a 9660 caliper with a 378x36 mm rotor? I know I could not squeeze in a pad with a thickness > 25 mm thick into a 9668 caliper using a 372x34 mm rotor.

I’m not familiar with the Paragon PA025 rear brake kit rotor ODs and pad profiles and thicknesses. A pad with a shorter PRD actually increases brake torque over a pad with a longer PRD. The longer PRD reduces the mean rotor radius and, therefore, reduces the braking torque magnitude. This would shift the brake bias forward. For brake bias calculations, the mean rotor diameter = rotor OR - PRD / 2 so longer PRD = reduced brake torque.

Looking at the Cobalt AP2 (PFC 7767), it only comes in a 20 mm thick pad. I’m unsure whether Cobalt will make an 18 mm thick, or thinner, version of the AP2. This pad is used in Radical track/race cars.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

What 7790 pad thickness are you using with a 378x36 mm rotor? The Essex/AP9660 caliper uses a 372x34 mm rotor with an 18 mm thick pad. How can you squeeze a 18 mm pad into a 9660 caliper with a 378x36 mm rotor? I know I could not squeeze in a pad with a thickness > 25 mm thick into a 9668 caliper using a 372x34 mm rotor.

I’m not familiar with the Paragon PA025 rear brake kit rotor ODs and pad profiles and thicknesses. A pad with a shorter PRD actually increases brake torque over a pad with a longer PRD. The longer PRD reduces the mean rotor radius and, therefore, reduces the braking torque magnitude. This would shift the brake bias forward. For brake bias calculations, the mean rotor diameter = rotor OR - PRD / 2 so longer PRD = reduced brake torque.

Looking at the Cobalt AP2 (PFC 7767), it only comes in a 20 mm thick pad. I’m unsure whether Cobalt will make an 18 mm thick, or thinner, version of the AP2. This pad is used in Radical track/race cars.

Hmm, 17mm or 18mm works on my 9660 378x36mm front setup, but maybe the 18mm worked bc my disc was slightly worn?

Gotcha on the PRD. I guess the larger pad just helps with lifespan, which isn’t a huge concern on the rear?

Is the bias impacted that much bn 7767 49mm & 7766 43mm?

Thanks!