[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by Tornado1M

So, just noticed this was up today….another one! Coming out of the woodwork these days…lol!

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/2020-bmw-m2-cs/

2023 according to pundits will be a rough year, so maybe people are just realizing they'd rather save their pennies now than hold onto a possible depreciating asset (for now).

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Interesting to see all of these ~3,000 mile varieties coming to market in rapid succession.

I think its just a good mileage to sell a collectible car at where you enjoyed driving it and it isn't impacted badly by depreciation. I don't think these cars will depreciate much more from this point, and probably won't appreciate from this point that quickly if at all. They've kind of settled near their MSRP, which is great.

[RideM]

Lastest auction results - final bid $85,500 (reserve not met) buyout at 106k

[Tornado1M]

Originally Posted by RideM

Lastest auction results - final bid $85,500 (reserve not met) buyout at 106k

🤦🏻‍♂️

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by RideM

Lastest auction results - final bid $85,500 (reserve not met) buyout at 106k

Market reality versus dreaming.

I just checked and there are not any on the block at Barrett-Jackson.

[Reddevils7]

I wonder if this will hold value like the 1M. Drive it for 60-80k miles and still sell it for around MSRP. I told myself I would assess the market around the 1 year mark after buying mine and consider selling vs just keeping it for long term/life. I'm at 6 months and can't see myself parting ways anytime soon.

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by Reddevils7

I wonder if this will hold value like the 1M. Drive it for 60-80k miles and still sell it for around MSRP. I told myself I would assess the market around the 1 year mark after buying mine and consider selling vs just keeping it for long term/life. I'm at 6 months and can't see myself parting ways anytime soon.

I wouldn’t part with it as long as you are still enjoying it. Long term it will more than likely hold a strong market value.

[Humdizzle]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2023-bmw-m4-csl-4/

2023 M4 CSL with 98 miles... only bid to about 1000 under MSRP
meanwhile a 2020 m2cs with 3500 miles sold for 1500 over.

i think the enthusiasts have spoken as to what a real M car is.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by RideM

Lastest auction results - final bid $85,500 (reserve not met) buyout at 106k

They usually jack up the BUY IT NOW about 10k over the reserve. Sounds like $95 reserve.

[Humdizzle]

Another recent data point:

- 2021 M2C. 5k miles. stock. manual. 61.6k MSRP. Sold for 67.5k + fees.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2021-bmw-m2-11/

- 2023 M4 CSL. 100 miles. stock. (no cup2r, adjustable buckets, $10k ppf). 145k MSRP. Sold for 146k + fees.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2023-bmw-m4csl/

[to_riffic]

I still think an M3/4 over 6 figures is still hard to imagine for a lot.

Obviously the better car will play into the hands of the iconic 911. Which is, ad nausea, but it really is a hard playing field in the 130k+ range.

So when it comes to value, the CSL has a long way to go to appreciate whereas the M2 CS, sub 100k, is relatively attainable for a lot of enthusiasts.

[Tornado1M]

Originally Posted by to_riffic

I still think an M3/4 over 6 figures is still hard to imagine for a lot.

Obviously the better car will play into the hands of the iconic 911. Which is, ad nausea, but it really is a hard playing field in the 130k+ range.

So when it comes to value, the CSL has a long way to go to appreciate whereas the M2 CS, sub 100k, is relatively attainable for a lot of enthusiasts.

Agreed! M2cs is certainly a value play now. However, when first introduced, I do remember everyone bitching about the $85K MSRP.

However now, with the G87…..your nearly at $75K if you opt in on the carbon roof ect.

[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by Tornado1M

Agreed! M2cs is certainly a value play now. However, when first introduced, I do remember everyone bitching about the $85K MSRP.

However now, with the G87…..your nearly at $75K if you opt in on the carbon roof ect.

Oh for sure. I was one of them! But then when you start comparing that price to a “base” GT4 it became palpable. I definitely didn’t feel like paying $130k+ markup for the 718 so the CS was the easier pill to swallow.

[Davil]

911 911 Porsche Cayman 911 Porsche 911 GT3 GT4 Porsche.

Am I doing it right? Just want to make sure my post to Bimmerpost has the right content.

[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by Davil

911 911 Porsche Cayman 911 Porsche 911 GT3 GT4 Porsche.

Am I doing it right? Just want to make sure my post to Bimmerpost has the right content.

Close, but it typically goes "For that BMW xxxx in $6 figures, I can get 911 xxxx"

I think it's a general progression to want to go from a BMW to a Porsche. Nothing wrong with that.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by to_riffic

I think it's a general progression to want to go from a BMW to a Porsche. Nothing wrong with that.

Zero interest from me and likely many others. I think there’s a forum called Rennlist for people with that particular affliction.

[ShaknBak]

Originally Posted by Davil

Zero interest from me and likely many others. I think there’s a forum called Rennlist for people with that particular affliction.

Lol I have to say that forum is borderline unusable compared to Bimmerpost? No app, tons of ads, antiquated interface?

[Champ of America]

Originally Posted by to_riffic

Close, but it typically goes "For that BMW xxxx in $6 figures, I can get 911 xxxx"

I think it's a general progression to want to go from a BMW to a Porsche. Nothing wrong with that.

I went from a BMW (330ix) to a Ford (Focus RS), which felt like a pretty big upgrade at the time. Then back to a BMW (the CS), which felt like an epic upgrade. While I would say that many Porsches don't feel like a step up over it, there are a few that do. It's less about the brand than the individual cars themselves, but as a brand, Porsche makes cars at the high end of their range for driving enthusiasts that BMW just doesn't. However, for the money, the CS is an unbeatable package, nothing Porsche makes in that price category comes close.

[Reddevils7]

Originally Posted by Champ of America

I went from a BMW (330ix) to a Ford (Focus RS), which felt like a pretty big upgrade at the time. Then back to a BMW (the CS), which felt like an epic upgrade. While I would say that many Porsches don't feel like a step up over it, there are a few that do. It's less about the brand than the individuals cars themselves, but as a brand, Porsche makes cars at the high end of their range for driving enthusiasts that BMW just doesn't. However, for the money, the CS is an unbeatable package, nothing Porsche makes in that price category comes close.

Yeah I agree. I've driven Carrera T, s, turbos. They're fun don't get me wrong but it's not a significant step up from my CS for the amount of price difference. Rear engine definitely gives it a certain feel but it's not like it blew me away compared to the CS. Now if it's a 991 gt3 then yes I would say that's a worthy upgrade, especially considering that it's the same price as a well equipped 991 turbo/turbo s. I have not driven a gt4 but I think I would still want my m2cs over it because of the torque gap alone even though it has the weight difference. And the gt4 is still easily $30k above a cs with similar miles. If I was to sell my cs today, for the same money, I think I would go pickup a f82 gts or maybe a very clean E92. E92 has the same issue as the gt4 for me, lack of torque, but the v8 would be worth it if it's a daily and I'm not tracking it.

[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by Champ of America

I went from a BMW (330ix) to a Ford (Focus RS), which felt like a pretty big upgrade at the time. Then back to a BMW (the CS), which felt like an epic upgrade. While I would say that many Porsches don't feel like a step up over it, there are a few that do. It's less about the brand than the individual cars themselves, but as a brand, Porsche makes cars at the high end of their range for driving enthusiasts that BMW just doesn't. However, for the money, the CS is an unbeatable package, nothing Porsche makes in that price category comes close.

I'd still say the vehicle that does come close is the 718 Cayman 4.0. But in a world where turbos are found in anything and everything, people don't want to work for that power. So the long gearing and lack of anything below 4k RPM sitting in any traffic would make the drive numb.

Originally Posted by Reddevils7

Yeah I agree. I've driven Carrera T, s, turbos. They're fun don't get me wrong but it's not a significant step up from my CS for the amount of price difference. Rear engine definitely gives it a certain feel but it's not like it blew me away compared to the CS. Now if it's a 991 gt3 then yes I would say that's a worthy upgrade, especially considering that it's the same price as a well equipped 991 turbo/turbo s. I have not driven a gt4 but I think I would still want my m2cs over it because of the torque gap alone even though it has the weight difference. And the gt4 is still easily $30k above a cs with similar miles. If I was to sell my cs today, for the same money, I think I would go pickup a f82 gts or maybe a very clean E92. E92 has the same issue as the gt4 for me, lack of torque, but the v8 would be worth it if it's a daily and I'm not tracking it.

Yep, I hear ya. Most modern Porsches are pretty bland, the turbos in them are so good, you blink and you're at 80, and where's the fun in that? So yes, a GT is really the only way to go. I had a 981 GT4, it was fun, it screamed with the exhaust mod I had on it, and my only regret is I never tracked it in the time I had it.

hmm....If I got rid of the CS it's only up from there, it'd likely be a 991.2 GT3.

[Champ of America]

Originally Posted by Reddevils7

Yeah I agree. I've driven Carrera T, s, turbos. They're fun don't get me wrong but it's not a significant step up from my CS for the amount of price difference. Rear engine definitely gives it a certain feel but it's not like it blew me away compared to the CS. Now if it's a 991 gt3 then yes I would say that's a worthy upgrade, especially considering that it's the same price as a well equipped 991 turbo/turbo s. I have not driven a gt4 but I think I would still want my m2cs over it because of the torque gap alone even though it has the weight difference. And the gt4 is still easily $30k above a cs with similar miles. If I was to sell my cs today, for the same money, I think I would go pickup a f82 gts or maybe a very clean E92. E92 has the same issue as the gt4 for me, lack of torque, but the v8 would be worth it if it's a daily and I'm not tracking it.

This is really the key if you're not tracking, I am not sure I see the point in anything above the CS, unless you just prefer NA engines. I will say that, having driven the GT4 and Spyder, if you are a sports car purist and enjoy rotating a car with trail braking, or just prefer the way mid engine cars rotate in general, over the lurid tail slides you get with the CS, the Porsches are superior in this regard. However, if you want to track your weekend toy, the argument for the GT4 becomes much clearer.

[Champ of America]

Originally Posted by to_riffic

I'd still say the vehicle that does come close is the 718 Cayman 4.0. But in a world where turbos are found in anything and everything, people don't want to work for that power. So the long gearing and lack of anything below 4k RPM sitting in any traffic would make the drive numb.



Yep, I hear ya. Most modern Porsches are pretty bland, the turbos in them are so good, you blink and you're at 80, and where's the fun in that? So yes, a GT is really the only way to go. I had a 981 GT4, it was fun, it screamed with the exhaust mod I had on it, and my only regret is I never tracked it in the time I had it.

hmm....If I got rid of the CS it's only up from there, it'd likely be a 991.2 GT3.

With ya there, in fact when I bought the CS and people asked me "how long are you keeping this one?", my reply was "until I can afford a GT3!".