[csbear]

Originally Posted by Tag

I still don't get BMW's rational behind any of this....For a company that's all about efficiency this is the most idiotic and counter intuitive thing I've ever seen them do.

Glad I'm not the only one thinking this. I am appreciative of BMW giving us these M Perf options for the M2C, but this CF roof install process on a new car is completely asinine. M car buyers are a more informed breed of customers. What was BMW thinking? That customers wouldn't ask about the actual install process?

I hope to eat my words and there are customers who are happy with the end result and the structural integrity of the car is not affected (which it probably won't be for the most part). However, I'd rather not be the guinea pig.

[Tony007]

The way they have things set up I would be willing to bet the take rate for the carbon roof is less than 5% whereas if it was factory installed it would be 50% or greater.

[buckybadger]

This is crazy, no way I'm doing it even if CF roof is free.

[Sideshow]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

This is crazy, no way I'm doing it even if CF roof is free.

mmmmokay, just hang on there......

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by Sideshow

mmmmokay, just hang on there......

Okayyyyy

[MS81]

I have spoken to a couple dealers, including the one I’m buying my M2C from and non Way to touch the carbon roof installation. They have said for them there are far too many risks involved (granted they don’t know the process for a roof swap as it’s not know what is actually involved). I think this is a huge mistake from BMW and I will not be doing it sadly!

[Karmic Man]

Not sure what are they thinking...

It’s like asking a beautician to do a face transplant.

It doesn’t matter if there is a 500 pages step by step manual. The issue is if something goes wrong they won’t be able to fix it.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by MS81

I think this is a huge mistake from BMW...

I'm guessing BMW will turn a profit from the carbon roof part alone. For this reason I don't think it is a mistake to offer it.

[Poochie]

I don't think they really care if they sell the carbon fiber roofs or not.. Their focus is profiting on the vehicle sales itself..

Someone a few weeks ago suggested that these carbon fiber parts where intended for a M2 CS version but after they scrapped those plans, they decided to offer these parts individually.

And yes, there will be no F-Series M2 CS; if they where going to release one, we would see the test mules running around by now..

Aside from a few cosmetic special editions (eg. "Shadow Black"), the M2C is the end of the road for this generation F87 M2.

[alscks0414]

My question is "why BMW does not allow an option to get this installed at the factory?" even though they will offer genuine part. Is it because they want to give dealers profit by doing labor work for installing this piece?
I assume actual procedure of installing the roof in the first place between regular roof and CF roof should not differ much so that they would not have to alter their production procedure so much that could effect their production efficiency... But why??

[F87_LCI]

Originally Posted by csbear

I hope ... the structural integrity of the car is not affected (which it probably won't be for the most part). However, I'd rather not be the guinea pig.

I thought the roof was just a "skin" and had nothing to do with the structural rigidity of the car? Pretty sure I've seen that posted here a couple of times.

Honestly, it's going to be under warranty, so if there are any issues (i.e. leaks, etc.) they will be covered. Not sure what everyone is so worried about. If my LCI wasn't on lease I would have had this mod done already (and that wouldn't be covered by BMW warranty!), but I can't do any non-reversible mods. Get it done by a good shop and it's no different from replacing a cracked windshield IMO.

[qnet]

I understand peoples concerns. I've had a similar situation with a performance car I once owned.

I bought a Evo X back in 2014. Evo's can be ordered with a moonroof, but normally come with an aluminum roof. The dealer offered to install a moonroof & leather seats for the car I was getting. I was warned against doing the moonroof on the Evo forum by a few people. The reasons were very similar to the ones given hear (aftermarket company cutting into roof, possible leaks etc..)

I researched the company that did the procedure, and ended up doing it. I never had issues with the moonroof leaking but after some time, it did start creaking when backing out of my driveway, which is on an incline. Every once in awhile it wouldn't close completely, this didn't happen very often but enough to bother me some.


I didn't have the car long enough (about two years) to see any long term effects, but I won't do this again on a car of this type.

On a side note, at the time I still had my E36 M3. The M3 had a sunroof, and it was rock-solid. I remember comparing backing out of my driveway with it vs. the Evo with the aftermarket moonroof.

With the carbon roof install, I think it would be ok if the right shop did it. That's a big if I know.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I don't think they really care if they sell the carbon fiber roofs or not.. Their focus is profiting on the vehicle sales itself..

First, I guarantee the people responsible for M Performance parts have sales goals. They care A LOT if M Performance products sell or not.

Also, there is an extremely important goal in sales... "Accessorize the sale." You want to accessorize the products being sold as much as possible. This increases the goal of making more profit per transaction.

I'm a sales manager... When I see one of my salespeople failing to accessorize the sale, I consider it "clerking" instead of selling. A successful salesperson literally displays their skills and competency by adding accessories.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

First, I guarantee the people responsible for M Performance parts have sales goals. They care A LOT if M Performance products sell or not.

Also, there is an extremely important goal in sales... "Accessorize the sale." You want to accessorize the products being sold as much as possible. This increases the goal of making more profit per transaction.

I'm a sales manager... When I see one of my salespeople failing to accessorize the sale, I consider it "clerking" instead of selling. A successful salesperson literally displays their skills and competency by adding accessories.

I beg to differ, I bought a couple of BMWs and they always acted like adding M Performance parts was a burden. Not only that, they were not very knowledgeable about the options ('What's a LSD?')

But they did heavily push the BMW extended warranty and tire insurance hard!

Leads me to believe that it's a take it or leave it option.. And offered so they don't miss out on the aftermarket competitors.

Also, why make it so difficult to obtain these parts if they had some sort of sale goal. All it does is deter potential customers.. Not just the roof, pretty much every MP part caters to "aftersales"

[MR.]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

My question is "why BMW does not allow an option to get this installed at the factory?" even though they will offer genuine part. Is it because they want to give dealers profit by doing labor work for installing this piece?
I assume actual procedure of installing the roof in the first place between regular roof and CF roof should not differ much so that they would not have to alter their production procedure so much that could effect their production efficiency... But why??

According to info I got over the weekend, it is because it would slow down the production too much to implement this particular feature for a single car. The cost would be too high to change the production cycle.

Originally Posted by Poochie

I beg to differ, I bought a couple of BMWs and they always acted like adding M Performance parts was a burden. Not only that, they were not very knowledgeable about the options ('What's a LSD?')

But they did heavily push the BMW extended warranty and tire insurance hard!

Leads me to believe that it's a take it or leave it option.. And offered so they don't miss out on the aftermarket competitors.

Also, why make it so difficult to obtain these parts if they had some sort of sale goal. All it does is deter potential customers.. Not just the roof, pretty much every MP part caters to "aftersales"

Answer = incentive! If the sales guy would get the right kind of incentive to sell the parts, he would... It is like selling mobile phones, if brand A gives you a free trip with your gf to sunny Barbados when you sell their phones the most and the other brand puts you in a tent in the Belgian Ardennes, than you know what you want to sell...

Doesn't matter what people want, a good sales man sells what he wants to sell and what people need, not what the people want... Big issue here is that we all know what we want and that annoys the shit out of sales people. Although I had a laugh with my sales guy today when we sent the whole sales force in the dealership an email featuring IND's video on how to fit the carbon fiber roof with the quote "Are we honestly going to do this here?".

MR

[Dan@AutoTalent]

Wow, that is some intricate work. Definitely not for the faint of heart.

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by MR.

According to info I got over the weekend, it is because it would slow down the production too much to implement this particular feature for a single car. The cost would be too high to change the production cycle.

Changing the piece of roof in their production cycle should not affect much. If it is like "add-ons" such as front splitters, side winglet on the top of existing (assenbled) body panel, I can adimit that there will be "extra cost" and "extra time".

If procedures installing different material roof different from each other, I guess it could be additional cost and time from production.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

Changing the piece of roof in their production cycle should not affect much. If it is like "add-ons" such as front splitters, side winglet on the top of existing (assenbled) body panel, I can adimit that there will be "extra cost" and "extra time".

If procedures installing different material roof different from each other, I guess it could be additional cost and time from production.

And in a facility where money is made with Active Divorce and Gran Divorce models... you can see the point that the management says; that is not gonna happen on that production line.

MR

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by MR.

And in a facility where money is made with Active Divorce and Gran Divorce models...

MR

That's a hilarious description of their potential demographics...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

First, I guarantee the people responsible for M Performance parts have sales goals. They care A LOT if M Performance products sell or not.

Also, there is an extremely important goal in sales... "Accessorize the sale." You want to accessorize the products being sold as much as possible. This increases the goal of making more profit per transaction.

I'm a sales manager... When I see one of my salespeople failing to accessorize the sale, I consider it "clerking" instead of selling. A successful salesperson literally displays their skills and competency by adding accessories.

And this is why I don’t understand (or care to be around) most sales people.

I don’t need someone pushing me incessantly so they can “accessorize” my business - I know what I want and need, thanks anyway.

[Poochie]

I never met a BMW sales person that's actually more informed than the average Bimmerpost member..

They just see it as a paycheck.. Which is a shame really because if I was in sales and had the opportunity to make extra money on M Performance accessories, I would be killing it!

I am hustler; I could sell salt to a slug..

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

And this is why I don't understand (or care to be around) most sales people.

I don't need someone pushing me incessantly so they can "accessorize" my business - I know what I want and need, thanks anyway.

I can tell you don't understand sales. A good salesperson doesn't push incessantly; they display the potential value in what they're selling.

That being said... I didn't want any accessories, warranties, or service plans when I bought my F30. Because I know the sales mentality I approached it as follows.

I had all my stuff together when I was ready to buy. I didn't need the salesperson to so much as walk away from his desk. I already did my research as to exactly what I wanted and had competitive offers in writing. I didn't even need to talk about financing. I showed up on the last day of the month (and quarter, and year coincidentally (it was New Years Eve)). This relayed a clear message to the salesperson... I was ready to be closed and didn't need to be sold. We had a brief discussion over about $125 of dealer fees and we had a deal. He then passed me to an assistant write up my special order.

Moral of the story? Make it super quick and easy for the salesperson to get a sale and move on. This way they're more-willing to; and feel better about making a skinny deal.