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      12-06-2019, 12:50 AM   #1
///Driver
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Buying M2 Competition - Help Decide DCT or 6M

Hi,

Thanks for letting me join this forum.

I am close to purchasing a MY2020 M2 Competition in Hockenheim Silver. Perforated Dakota leather (red stitching) with heated seats, black 788M (S029U) wheels, carbon fibre interior trim. No sunroof (my head touches the roof lining with sunroof). No privacy glasses (too hard to tint the front windows to match). AppleCarPlay for an unlimited period (I just found out on this forum that BMW made it free).

M2 is pretty rare (unlike Ford Mustangs) in Australia. I have been able to sit in one, but I have not driven one. My reason for posting here seeking your thoughts.

Historically, I have had a manual transmission in all but one of my cars. So why not just buy another manual? I've heard that 6th gear in 6MT is lower than the 7th in DCT. Something like 2,600rpm @ 100kph (6MT) vs 2,100rpm (DCT). I guess that might mean that the cabin will be noisier on the freeway and consume a bit more fuel? Is that right? Noisier and thirstier at highway speed?

I also like to blip the throttle on downshifting in manual transmission myself, but M2 does it for me, and I can only disable that feature if I switch off the traction control? Is it 'partial' or 'fully' disengaged traction control? I don't think I will ever want to switch it off completely. That S55 (even in detuned form from M3 / M4) seems like its got a lot of power.

Maybe some folks with F87 DCT M2 might answer these questions for me. Does it downshift/upshift when you command it, OR sometimes it shifts down/up when it feels like it?

I am aware that DCT outperforms 6MT to 100kph by 0.2 seconds. That is not very important to me. However, does the DCT behave itself at lower speeds (e.g. around town)? Or say when performing a 3-point u-turn? Goes it go into gear faster than traditional automatic (going from 1st to reverse)? When you start moving forward slowly from stationary, is it smooth?

Lastly, is DCT reliable if serviced regularly? I wouldn't want a huge bill a month after the warranty runs out OR hugely costly to service after the first 5 years (included servicing).

One good thing about buying M2C in Australia is that DCT and 6MT are identically priced. 6MT is a No Cost Option (NCO) to delete.

I should share my driving style. I'm an ordinary guy next door — no track racing or drag racing. I only drive about 6,000kms - 7,000kms per year. I have a bit of fun on a country road when no one is around, but that is about it.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate any suggestions.

Last edited by ///Driver; 12-06-2019 at 03:06 AM..
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      12-06-2019, 12:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hithere View Post
Hi,

Thanks for letting me join this forum.

I am close to purchasing a MY2020 M2 Competition in Hockenheim Silver. Perforated Dakota leather heated seats red stitching, black 788M (S029U) wheels, carbon fibre interior trim. No sunroof (my head touches the roof lining with sunroof). No privacy glasses (too hard to tint the front windows to match). AppleCarPlay for an unlimited period (I just found out on this forum that BMW made it free). I have never spent this kind of $$$ on a car before but...

M2 is pretty rare (unlike Ford Mustangs) in Australia. I have been able to sit in one I have not driven one.

Historically, I have had a manual transmission in all but one of my cars. So why not just buy another manual? I've heard that 6th gear in 6MT is lower than the 7th in DCT. Something like 2,600rpm @ 100kph (6MT) vs 2,100rpm (DCT). I guess that might mean that the cabin will be noisier on the freeway and consume a bit more fuel? Is that right? Noisier and thirstier at highway speed?

I also like to blip the throttle on downshifting, but M2 does it for me, and I can only disable that feature if I switch off the traction control? Is that right?

Maybe some folks who own F87 DCT M2 might answer these questions for me. Does it downshift/upshift when you command it, OR sometimes it refuses to shift down/up when it feels like it?

I am aware that DCT outperforms 6MT to 100kph by 0.2 seconds. That is not very important to me. However, does the DCT behave itself at low speeds? Say performing a 3-point u-turn? Goes into gear faster than traditional automatic? When you move off slowly, is it smooth?

Lastly, is DCT reliable if serviced regularly? I wouldn't want a huge bill a month after the warranty runs out OR costly to service after the first 5 years (included servicing).

I should share my driving style. I'm an ordinary guy next door — no tracking or drag racing. I only drive about 6,000kms - 7,000kms per year. I have a bit of fun on a country road, but that is about it.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate any suggestions.
I've only driven DCT on the track and for about 10 minutes on the street. Other members who have daily experience with DCT will probably give you more useful feedback. With that said, I thought DCT was very good when driving hard or in manual mode. It seemed civilized enough at low speeds to not annoy me on the street. You can notice it's not a torque converter automatic, though. The shifts themselves are extremely fast, but you can still confuse it occasionally in automatic mode.

For me, I came away thinking DCT would not annoy me on a daily basis. I think the question will be, does the 6MT make the car more fun or interesting for you? I am still grappling with this question as I look at M2C and used M2s.
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      12-06-2019, 02:04 AM   #3
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Thanks Chris for chipping in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The shifts themselves are extremely fast, but you can still confuse it occasionally in automatic mode.
That is a good point. If I get annoyed with auto mode, I can choose to shift manually 100% of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I am still grappling with this question as I look at M2C and used M2s.
I was originally going to get an M240i... but BMW Australia decide to fit sunroofs for free since mid-2019, so they are all imported with them - I cannot fit in it (too tall). I hear value-for-money option is N55 M2, as it is nearly as fast as M2C with S55. It depends on the difference in price in your area. Here in Australia, it seems to be the difference of AUD$10,000 (USD$6,500) between them with similar mileage. Good luck deciding.

Last edited by ///Driver; 12-06-2019 at 02:29 AM..
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      12-06-2019, 04:54 AM   #4
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Hithere, I guess I can comment here as the M2c is my first DCT experience for about the last 6 months. Have been MT always before then. Was an easy decision for me as I kept my manual 1M for a different experience.

The M2c is my daily. DCT is a great trans, but the auto mode gives me the f shits. I almost exclusively drive it in manual mode 2 and love it for it. The shifts are crisp and downshifts blip the throttle for some nice noise. In manual mode it will also downshift automatically should the revs drop sufficiently if you don't feel like downshifting yourself, but will bounce off the limiter if you want to in manual mode when accelerating. Manual mode 1 is f useless, smooth but slow as to inputs.

Took me a while to get used to the slowness of the gearbox when going from fwd to reverse and back again - it's almost like it needs a moment at standstill to engage. I'm learning something new about this trans all the time, but for me this is a negative.

Throttle mapping is aggressive in Sport +. I don't like it - not smooth at all for fast take-offs. I've disconnected the exhaust valves in the open position and drive pretty much in Sport only. Less obnoxious crackles and perfect throttle mapping. Sport + also activates the additional engine cooling for track work and so it's noticeably noisier and rough running for daily duties.

I mix between shifting with the paddles and the lever itself, both are fairly intuitive and comfortable to use.

I haven't tracked it yet, but auto mode might make more sense on a track or for drags if that's your sort of thing. I'm glad I chose the DCT, BUT if I didn't have the MT to fall back on in the 1M I would possibly regret it.

It's a rough decision. You really need extended drive time with each trans to decide.

Last edited by Piets94; 12-06-2019 at 05:11 AM..
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      12-06-2019, 07:45 AM   #5
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Based on what you've stated, you should probably get the manual. You have experience driving manual and enjoy heel toe downshifting. The rev match can easily be coded it off in all driving modes. The DCT is quicker but you stated that doesn't concern you. Should something go wrong out of warranty, the DCT will be more expensive to fix.

I have manual in my M2 and DCT in my 135i which is my daily driver. For me the DCT is boring unless your going full throttle or on track. And yes I drive it exclusively in manual mode but it's not the same engagement as MT.
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      12-06-2019, 07:47 AM   #6
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I was 100% set on buying a manual, but I was a bit concerned having it as my only car in case my wife needed to drive it in an emergency. She can't drive a manual and doesn't care to learn, so I went to the local dealer and test drove a DCT.

One drive and I knew it was a better choice for me, they located a HS DCT for me that day and a few days later I took ownership.

It is a very special car and my wife loves driving it, makes it a lot easier when the wife is happy about such a large purchase.

I have no regrets choosing the DCT for my situation, and if I really want a manual car I can get an S2000 or Cayman to satisfy that craving.

Good luck whichever way you choose.
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      12-06-2019, 08:41 AM   #7
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I think it really comes down to where you live. I’ve owned manuals my whole life and loved them every second. I moved to atl 3 years ago and the joy of manual is being sucked from me based on the roads, traffic, etc. My m2 is manual but I’m actually selling it for a alfa qv cause that car just works better in this area. I have an e46 track car so if I need to drive stick I have that but honestly I barely use it now. If you have the area to enjoy stick do it. If not then it will become a pain more then a pleasure.

Btw mines for sale. 3500 miles and the only thing I did was paint the exhaust black with high temp paint (primed first). 53k. Lemme know if you are interested.
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      12-06-2019, 08:43 AM   #8
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Manual all the way. I am a bit biased though, as I own a 6mt M2C, and have never driven a DCT. Unless you have to have the auto for a very specific reason, the driver engagement portion of the 6mt outweighs pretty much every advantage the DCT gives (in my opinion). Plus, if you get the 6mt and save ~$3000, which is very nice, but if you planned on spending that, could be a nice set of coilovers and then some cosmetic mods.
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      12-06-2019, 08:50 AM   #9
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I think the decision comes down to how much stop and go traffic you drive in. In Seattle the traffic has gotten terrible and I switch from a 6 speed to DCT. No regrets. Just wasn’t fun anymore in our traffic and the DCT is faster and gets better gas mileage.

The local BMWCCA lead track instructor went with DCT also because he said it was much better on the track.
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      12-06-2019, 09:20 AM   #10
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IMO, the M2C pays homage to the great M cars of old...the 6MT is the entire point. Albeit, the M2C is an overall great car, and even a DCT won't entirely kill the driving experience.
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      12-06-2019, 09:52 AM   #11
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Easy 6mt.

https://torontosun-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/torontosun.com/news/local-news/stick-shift-simpletons-manual-transmission-foils-york-u-theft/amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh= 15756474708102&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c om&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ft orontosun.com%2Fnews%2Flocal-news%2Fstick-shift-simpletons-manual-transmission-foils-york-u-theft
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      12-06-2019, 10:14 AM   #12
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I haven't tried the DCT but love the 6 speed just as I thought I would. I still love a good manual on track as well.

Auto rev match makes it easier to live with in traffic and is even nice at the track if you want an extra layer of protection from a money shift (still possible, just not as likely when you hear the revs shoot up unexpectedly).
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      12-06-2019, 10:46 AM   #13
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You can rev match the 6spd without interference from the ECU if your timing is correct.
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      12-06-2019, 12:31 PM   #14
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Do your part. Keep the manual alive!
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      12-06-2019, 02:48 PM   #15
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I bought the car specifically because it came with a manual, so i'm obviously biased, that said, I don't think it's the greatest manual to ever come on a car, though it's also far from the worst.

The shift quality will be familiar if you've driven many BMW manuals, reasonably accurate, longish throws and a very 'cushy' feeling, without much harshness. Despite the cushiness, there is still some feedback, but overall it feels pretty refined for what i'm used to in a sports car. Not much effort is needed to slot between gears.

The transmission is actually VERY nice for daily driving IMHO and it's by far the easiest to drive MT i've ever experienced, mostly due to the electronic assistance. As you mentioned, there is a rev match feature that can't be turned off without turning TCS off all the way. There is also a hill hold feature and an anti-stall feature. You don't need to give it any gas when getting away from a stop, just slowly let out the clutch and the car will do it for you.

That said, the transmission doesn't ever swing all the way into "boring" territory for me. As I mentioned, there's still a fair amount of feel through the shifter and the engine doesn't hang revs too excessively. In addition, the car will still let you rev match even with the auto rev match on. I like to double clutch my downshifts with a blip in neutral and the car will absolutely, faithfully respond to my throttle blip. However, if i don't give it enough of a blip, the engine will blip a little extra for a perfect rev match when i actually slot it into gear. If I do get it perfect on the other hand, I can't tell the car is doing anything to help me (and indeed it may not be.)

Cruising on the highway in 6th gear hasn't been a problem for me, last week I drove from seattle to portland and then back to seattle, which is at least 500 miles. The car isn't going to get great mileage no matter what, but I didn't feel like there was excessive vibration or noise from the engine while cruising at 70-80 mph. I'm sure a DCT would've gotten slightly better mileage though and probably been just a touch more relaxed, but again, I don't think this is a problem with the 6mt.

So, if you're expecting a Miata transmission that lives to delight and entertain, this probably isn't it. If on the other hand, you're looking for a transmission that's reasonably fun, offers all the control of a traditional manual and is as easy to live with as a 3-pedal manual setup can be, I think the 6mt won't disappoint.
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      12-06-2019, 02:54 PM   #16
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On track - DCT. If you spend most of your time in traffic jams - also DCT (although, why are you buying something this uncompromising if you do?). Open roads with little or no bends or gradients - DCT. Otherwise...
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      12-06-2019, 02:55 PM   #17
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Oh, and: Its got a 50 litre tank and a 23mpg thirst. More road noise at 100kmh is so not the problem...
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      12-06-2019, 03:14 PM   #18
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The DCT in auto mode drives me nuts so I only drive it in manual mode. Going from 1st to reverse and back again is slow, but it doesn't bother me much, I spend most of my time moving forward anyway.

I hear with the MT some people notice a loss of boost when shifting up through the gears that isn't there on the DCT.

The DCT will be more expensive to repair but if you do a search for transmission issues the DCT has been reliable and been more trouble free than the MT.

At 80 mph in 7th gear the DCT doesn't annoy me with drone. If I put it in 6th it does, so maybe I would be a bit annoyed with the cruising speed noises of the MT, not sure.

At least in the states MT cars have better resale.

This is the last DCT BMW ever, only ZF torque convert auto and MT for next gen.
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      12-06-2019, 03:41 PM   #19
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Purpose of the car is to be fast and if you wanna be fast there is only one option.

If you can take it being slower but have more fun then there is only one option for that too.

I use mine as weekend warrior and could have swung either way, they had a nice DCT in dealership so I took it. If it was manual with same options but a better price then I would have taken that.
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      12-06-2019, 04:33 PM   #20
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6MT N55 M2 LCI (not stock) here. Drove it back to back with stock 2C DCT on track. I didn't hate the DCT as much as I thought I would (once I learned how to shift it correctly) it was actually not bad, but I do still prefer the 6mt on my car, I was able to go faster in my car than the 2C, but that was not due to the transmission.

End of the day, it comes down to your personal situation/preferences. No one on here can tell you what is best for you. Either way, the M2/M2C is a great car to drive.
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      12-06-2019, 05:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I hear with the MT some people notice a loss of boost when shifting up through the gears that isn't there on the DCT.
It's actually quite noticeable, but I think it only happens in eco mode. You don't really drop out of boost at all when shifting gears in Sport/Sport+ even if you're shifting kind of slowly.

I actually kind of like driving in eco mode sometimes. The car feels much more "old school turbocharged" with a significant lag between when you put your foot down and when the boost starts to spool. It will still eventually scoot pretty good if you have your foot all the way down though.
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      12-06-2019, 06:31 PM   #22
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Having owned both an N55 and and S55, I prefer the N55 engine with a 6MT.

However, I never have felt that the 6MT really matches well with the S55 engine. That's just MY feeling, but for what it's worth, the DCT seems to bring out the torque curve of the S55 engine better. Plus, it is WICKED FAST.
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