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      03-30-2019, 03:41 PM   #23
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You do know that despite its much heavier weight, the Tesla has a far more optimal weight distribution, right? You're also aware then that 50/50 is not even optimal, right? Also that the statement is meaningless because "50/50" is incredibly vague and doesn't tell you where the moments are.

It has traction control and doesn't make any sound, I understand these gripes.

You should also understand that the Teslas are not meant to be hardcore sports cars. How many of your knocks also apply to M340xi or M550xi? Because that's really the class the Tesla "Performance" cars are in.
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      03-31-2019, 03:29 AM   #24
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You just made my point.

This thread is about M2 vs Model 3. And in this comparison M2 wins for all the reasons we’ve already mentioned.

I have to disagree with you. 50/50 front rear split is the ideal weight distribution in a car like the M2, and large part of why the balance of the chassis is so neutral. If you start with 50/50 then suspension designers can work with physics, not against it, on how the weight transfers during acceleration and braking. This is achieved by picking spring rates, and roll stiffness. And since neutral steering is pretty much set, now they can focus on damping and optimizing braking and acceleration traction forces via suspension parameter optimization. This is far more efficient than starting with a 60/40 split and trying to overcome with suspension design.

Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 03-31-2019 at 05:10 AM..
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      03-31-2019, 07:59 AM   #25
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I took a long look at the Model 3 since it’s more attainable by me. From a five foot view the car looks great. Panel gaps though are not consistent. I also feel the minimalist interior is too minimalist. The Audi A3 is minimalist but has a good balance of knobs, dials and driver interfaces.

Once EVs can fully charge in five minutes or less, I might buy one. I also believe that unless Tesla improves things quickly, other manufacturers will eclipse them. The tax credits are going away, and I’m not entirely sure if Tesla is profitable yet.
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      03-31-2019, 08:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
You just made my point.

This thread is about M2 vs Model 3. And in this comparison M2 wins for all the reasons we’ve already mentioned.

I have to disagree with you. 50/50 front rear split is the ideal weight distribution in a car like the M2, and large part of why the balance of the chassis is so neutral. If you start with 50/50 then suspension designers can work with physics, not against it, on how the weight transfers during acceleration and braking. This is achieved by picking spring rates, and roll stiffness. And since neutral steering is pretty much set, now they can focus on damping and optimizing braking and acceleration traction forces via suspension parameter optimization. This is far more efficient than starting with a 60/40 split and trying to overcome with suspension design.
A slight rear bias is always going to give you better grip on acceleration and braking. Like I said, dividing the car into two parts is horribly imprecise and you could build a pretty poor "50/50" because of the latitude that measure gives you in placing the actual center of mass. Blindly saying that 50/50 is best is just wrong. Tell me how many real race cars have a 50/50 distribution.
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      03-31-2019, 08:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I took a long look at the Model 3 since it’s more attainable by me. From a five foot view the car looks great. Panel gaps though are not consistent. I also feel the minimalist interior is too minimalist. The Audi A3 is minimalist but has a good balance of knobs, dials and driver interfaces.

Once EVs can fully charge in five minutes or less, I might buy one. I also believe that unless Tesla improves things quickly, other manufacturers will eclipse them. The tax credits are going away, and I’m not entirely sure if Tesla is profitable yet.
I thought the A3 wasn't really minimalist, just cheap looking. I'm no fan of the Model 3's layout and Tesla build quality, though.

Tesla posted a profit in both Q3 and Q4 of 2018. I think the longer they survive the more likely it is they will be around for the long term.
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      03-31-2019, 09:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I thought the A3 wasn't really minimalist, just cheap looking. I'm no fan of the Model 3's layout and Tesla build quality, though.

Tesla posted a profit in both Q3 and Q4 of 2018. I think the longer they survive the more likely it is they will be around for the long term.
I hope they make it and keep things competitive. I do like that they are a market disruptor and are making the mainstream manufacturers take notice. I don’t see myself buying an EV yet especially since I just got a Macan lol, but I typically go through cars fairly quickly.
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      04-02-2019, 07:07 AM   #29
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I hope they make it and keep things competitive. I do like that they are a market disruptor and are making the mainstream manufacturers take notice.
Excellent point. We can all bash Tesla cars because you can't disable the traction control or stability control, and they won't last a day on the track (not enough charge and the motors overheat) and they make no sounds and build quality sucks and spare parts are non-existent and... well the list goes on and on. But you can't argue with the fact that they really did create a new automotive niche, something that GM and Nissan couldn't quite do, and the world will be a different place for it.

There's often a fine line between genius and insanity, as Mr. Musk often reminds us by his behavior. Still, it's hard to argue with the success of Tesla and SpaceX.
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      04-02-2019, 07:08 AM   #30
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I just got a Macan lol, but I typically go through cars fairly quickly.
We should start a club. I too go through cars too quickly, to the dismay of my bank account.

I'd love to hear your impressions of the Macan after you've had it a bit longer.
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      04-02-2019, 11:26 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Excellent point. We can all bash Tesla cars because you can't disable the traction control or stability control, and they won't last a day on the track (not enough charge and the motors overheat) and they make no sounds and build quality sucks and spare parts are non-existent and... well the list goes on and on. But you can't argue with the fact that they really did create a new automotive niche, something that GM and Nissan couldn't quite do, and the world will be a different place for it.

There's often a fine line between genius and insanity, as Mr. Musk often reminds us by his behavior. Still, it's hard to argue with the success of Tesla and SpaceX.
Depends on your definition of success. We will see if they are still around in 25 years. I'll agree with you on the niche though, all the H1B Visa IT professionals are now moving up from their green honda accords to Model 3's. Ironically they are the ones that need autopilot the most.
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      04-02-2019, 09:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
We should start a club. I too go through cars too quickly, to the dismay of my bank account.

I'd love to hear your impressions of the Macan after you've had it a bit longer.
Other than being somewhat expensive to purchase, I love it. Fit and finish is impeccable and despite being two years old, there are no squeaks or rattles. It’s just as fast and handles better than my 135is did. Plus I have a little more room now. It is thirsty but I only lost 1mpg on my drive to work. However, the tank is much larger and I always had to get gas during the week with the BMW and I don’t have to with the Macan. It rides as soft as a luxury sedan but is almost as compliant as a sports car. It’s weird. I’m not sure how Porsche did it.

There is a Cobb tune that will put its 0-60 on par with my Stingray. Crazy. Already considering it lol.

This is the 30th car I have owned in my lifetime.
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      04-03-2019, 10:43 AM   #33
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... the Macan. It rides as soft as a luxury sedan but is almost as compliant as a sports car. It’s weird. I’m not sure how Porsche did it.

This is the 30th car I have owned in my lifetime.
Hmmm, I may have to check it out, the next time I get an itch. I had a Panamera, which disappointed me in many respects, one of which was the ride quality, as I expected it to be 7-series luxury car smooth, and it was more like 5-series with sport package. I've had 4 911s and a Boxster as well, and yes, Porsche does some amazing engineering.

As for the 30th car, congrats on that. Not that we're having a contest, but my M2 is number 50. Give or take one or two that I can't remember. Nothing to be proud of, wasting money like that.
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      04-03-2019, 11:17 AM   #34
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I was going to sell the M2 for a Model 3.... but changed my mind. I'd rather have both in the garage tbh
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      04-03-2019, 06:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Hmmm, I may have to check it out, the next time I get an itch. I had a Panamera, which disappointed me in many respects, one of which was the ride quality, as I expected it to be 7-series luxury car smooth, and it was more like 5-series with sport package. I've had 4 911s and a Boxster as well, and yes, Porsche does some amazing engineering.

As for the 30th car, congrats on that. Not that we're having a contest, but my M2 is number 50. Give or take one or two that I can't remember. Nothing to be proud of, wasting money like that.
It’s about my only vice. I don’t drink, smoke do drugs etc etc. I work hard and enjoy what I enjoy.

I still want a 911 and am shopping now but probably need a better job first lol.
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