[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

Strike it lucky? That's funny. This will be my 4th Porsche, 3 of them used and none of them has spent a single day in the shop. My last performance BMW, E92 M3, was in the shop more often than not.

There is nothing like driving a Porsche on or off track, that's why they're profitable.

Perhaps you were unlucky with the E92 but don't delude yourself, the reason why Porsche is most profitable is purely down to their pricing structure

[swagon]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

I found the 911 I want, I'd rather have sapphire blue, but agate gray is my second favorite. I put down a deposit

AMAZING spec.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

Perhaps you were unlucky with the E92 but don't delude yourself, the reason why Porsche is most profitable is purely down to their pricing structure

what's with all the eye rolls around here?

I don't understand your issue with a company being profitable. You act like it's a bad thing - they price the cars according to what the market will bear - supply and demand, blah blah blah ... free market capitalism and all that good stuff.

Have you ever owned one?

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

what's with all the eye rolls around here?

I don't understand your issue with a company being profitable. You act like it's a bad thing - they price the cars according to what the market will bear - supply and demand, blah blah blah ... free market capitalism and all that good stuff.

Have you ever owned one?

Yes I have,997.1 bought mint with very low miles and within 2K miles the exhaust was smoking and scored bores were the diagnosis,this was after a full report and being serviced by Porsche and previously having a 996 with IMS failure so you can see I'm a bit tainted by all " Porsche is super reliable because they're expensive" comments.

Like I said previously,luck of the draw and nothing personal aimed at you

[W///]

Originally Posted by ZGirl07

That might be the difference. I was looking at pdk with sport chrono as the minimum options. I don't need all the bells and whistles. I was looking for white but I found the sapphire blue and it's actually a gorgeous color. That wasn't a cpo though so I didn't want to commit. 911 4S will most likely be my next car after the M2 is retired light years away from now. Enjoy it!!

I found a red C2S CPO for about $75k, with only 4k miles on it. It's still out of my budget unfortunately, but boy did I think about going for it. After the next M3, the plan will be to add a 911. They are just so damn nice!

[abp689]

Originally Posted by W///

I found a red C2S CPO for about $75k, with only 4k miles on it. It's still out of my budget unfortunately, but boy did I think about going for it. After the next M3, the plan will be to add a 911. They are just so damn nice!

Forgo the M2 & sell the e9x and you have the 911. Although, I think M2+e36+e92 > 911.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

Yes I have,997.1 bought mint with very low miles and within 2K miles the exhaust was smoking and scored bores were the diagnosis,this was after a full report and being serviced by Porsche and previously having a 996 with IMS failure so you can see I'm a bit tainted by all " Porsche is super reliable because they're expensive" comments.

Like I said previously,luck of the draw and nothing personal aimed at you

Ya, I would be too.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by swagon

AMAZING spec.

Thanks, I ended up paying $73 for it plus they gave me a set of rubber floor mats - cars being delivered next week. Yay!

[py0413]

Originally Posted by P-Bass

2012 had both 997 and the introduction of 991 models, old + new.

I thought 991 GTS started from model year 2013/14, but I don't live in USA so I could be wrong. Maybe it was launched earlier there ;-)

[W///]

Originally Posted by abp689

Forgo the M2 & sell the e9x and you have the 911. Although, I think M2+e36+e92 > 911.

I'm not really willing to sell the e92. Some people will call me nuts, but I'm completely ok with fulfilling this bucket list item later.

I absolutely love variety, so having a bunch of M cars from different eras is just as great as having a 911 IMO

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

I have driven the 991s and 4s and there is no way I would take an m2 over one for a weekend car unless I couldn't afford it

I've driven all the modern m cars, from the e46/92/1m/f80, not m2 obviously. They are great, but no comparison to the 991.

The 991 is by far the best car I've driven. Would take it over almost anything

It also wins the looks and sound contest by a landslide for me, and I think the m2 looks and sounds good

I have to agree 100%.
Just test drove 991.1 MT, black edition convertible.
Much better driving experience than all of my ///Ms.
It is a perfect weekend car. I would never be able to do DD the 991.
I cannot make a comment on the M2 since I have never driven one.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

I have to agree 100%.
Just test drove 991.1 MT, black edition convertible.
Much better driving experience than all of my ///Ms.
It is a perfect weekend car. I would never be able to do DD the 991.
I cannot make a comment on the M2 since I have never driven one.

Just curious what drives the DD or not conversation - I DD my 981 everyday and it works pretty well. Is it a lack of creature comforts? Or no good parking spots at work?

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Just curious what drives the DD or not conversation - I DD my 981 everyday and it works pretty well. Is it a lack of creature comforts? Or no good parking spots at work?

I would only consider MT in 991.1.
The clutch in the 991 is way too stiff to drive in greater DC area during traffic for me. If I opted for a PDK I could probably do DD.
991 has plenty creature comfort for me. And the seats are outstanding.
IMO, AMG seats>Porsche 14 and 18 adjustable seats>BMW///M seats.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

I would only consider MT in 991.1.
The clutch in the 991 is way too stiff to drive in greater DC area during traffic for me. If I opted for a PDK I could probably do DD.
991 has plenty creature comfort for me. And the seats are outstanding.
IMO, AMG seats>Porsche 14 and 18 adjustable seats>BMW///M seats.

I don't find the clutch stiff at all, but then again I don't think there's a MT made that's good for DC traffic (I commuted from VA and MD for 25 years)

The seats are really nice, not as planted as the CF GT2 sport seats I had in my 997, but way more comfortable.

[sgrinavi]

Here she is, all tinted out and cleaned up

[csbear]

Disagree with all the Porsche reliability stuff around here. Do your research.

Porsche is the most reliable of all car manufacturers for the last 3 years. ANY manufacturer..including Toyota/Lexus, which are considered the bastions of reliability.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs 2015

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs 2014

Not saying jdpower is the end all be all, but they list Porsche tops for 2013, 2014, 2015. And at least they use a lager sample size, compared to people having their own personal issues with the brand. If someone can show me a more reliable source/metric, I will happily eat my words.

Yes, Porsche can nickel/dime you, but you are getting a world class sports car with world class build and a world class reputation. That costs money....

Everybody has their experiences... My previous BMW was ultra reliable. Kept it for 15 years with minimal issues. But for many that's not the case.

sgrinavi, nice car. I had Sapphire Blue before and loved that color. But Agate Grey is really nice itself.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by csbear

Disagree with all the Porsche reliability stuff around here. Do your research.

Porsche is the most reliable of all car manufacturers for the last 3 years. ANY manufacturer..including Toyota/Lexus, which are considered the bastions of reliability.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs 2015

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs 2014

Not saying jdpower is the end all be all, but they list Porsche tops for 2013, 2014, 2015. And at least they use a lager sample size, compared to people having their own personal issues with the brand. If someone can show me a more reliable source/metric, I will happily eat my words.

Yes, Porsche can nickel/dime you, but you are getting a world class sports car with world class build and a world class reputation. That costs money....

Everybody has their experiences... My previous BMW was ultra reliable. Kept it for 15 years with minimal issues. But for many that's not the case.

sgrinavi, nice car. I had Sapphire Blue before and loved that color. But Agate Grey is really nice itself.

Agree 100%.
My 1996 993 C2 and 2004 Cayenne S never gave me any trouble besides the normal wear and tear issues. Matter fact, 5 MB and 6 BMW not one single issue.
I think they are all reliable if you take proper care, except RR.
I had a 1999 Range Rover (wife's car), worst car ever made. What a pile of sh**. 13 years later, I still can't get my wife within 100 yards of a Land Rover dealership.
1990 e30 325i and 1996 993 C2 were the two best cars I had the pleasure of driving.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by csbear

sgrinavi, nice car. I had Sapphire Blue before and loved that color. But Agate Grey is really nice itself.

Thanks, I wanted Sapphire Blue too, but I searched for 6 months trying to find used one at a reasonable price with three pedals wasn't happening.

[W///]

Originally Posted by csbear

Disagree with all the Porsche reliability stuff around here. Do your research.

Porsche is the most reliable of all car manufacturers for the last 3 years. ANY manufacturer..including Toyota/Lexus, which are considered the bastions of reliability.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs 2015

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-iqs 2014

Not saying jdpower is the end all be all, but they list Porsche tops for 2013, 2014, 2015. And at least they use a lager sample size, compared to people having their own personal issues with the brand. If someone can show me a more reliable source/metric, I will happily eat my words.

Yes, Porsche can nickel/dime you, but you are getting a world class sports car with world class build and a world class reputation. That costs money....

Everybody has their experiences... My previous BMW was ultra reliable. Kept it for 15 years with minimal issues. But for many that's not the case.

sgrinavi, nice car. I had Sapphire Blue before and loved that color. But Agate Grey is really nice itself.

You know I love Porsche, but that survey is USELESS when it comes to determining what I consider "reliability". It's all fluff.

That survey determines the owner's satisfaction during the FIRST 90 days. So 3 months and maybe 3-5k miles on the car? Who cares? I own my cars long term and I want to know how they do at 50k miles. The chances of things going wrong in the first 90 days are slim.

I don't even know if these things put weight on particular issues. It's one thing if your phone does not connect to your infotainment, but what if you are stuck on the side of the highway with a hole in your engine block?

Again, don't get me wrong, I love love love Porsche to death and hope to one day own one. But J.D Powers is a joke IMO. I know the manufacturer's would never release the data, but I'd be far more interested in seeing warranty claim numbers.

[csbear]

Originally Posted by W///

You know I love Porsche, but that survey is USELESS when it comes to determining what I consider "reliability". It's all fluff.

That survey determines the owner's satisfaction during the FIRST 90 days. So 3 months and maybe 3-5k miles on the car? Who cares? I own my cars long term and I want to know how they do at 50k miles. The chances of things going wrong in the first 90 days are slim.

I don't even know if these things put weight on particular issues. It's one thing if your phone does not connect to your infotainment, but what if you are stuck on the side of the highway with a hole in your engine block?

Again, don't get me wrong, I love love love Porsche to death and hope to one day own one. But J.D Powers is a joke IMO. I know the manufacturer's would never release the data, but I'd be far more interested in seeing warranty claim numbers.

Good point. It is for initial quality and like I mentioned, JD Power probably not the best way to prove long term reliability.

However, Toyota/Lexus have topped these charts for decades (less so recently). No one is debating against their overall reliability. So is it a coincidence that they also last longer than most cars past 50K, 100K, 200K etc?

At the bottom of the list: Jeep, Land Rover, etc. Is that a coincidence as well? They are perennially on the bottom for years and are notorious by their owners to have bad reliability.

You said, "The chances of things going wrong in the first 90 days are slim." Then why are Land Rover and Jeep exhibiting these problems very early on as evident in the JDPower survey? And why do they continue to do so throughout the years? If they are this bad early on, their owners are in for a world of hurt at 50,000K miles or more.

I definitely see what you are saying, but if cars from the start are built well, that means they have high standards for quality control. That high quality will be exhibited through much of their lineup, and play a part in long term reliability as well. I will take my chances on these top cars then those far down the list no matter what a few people experiences were on the interwebz. (Although I don't base my car choices on JD Power )

But yes, you are right, the important reliability data (engine problems, warranty information, etc) for cars should be more readily available, but unfortunately it isn't. And it is pretty difficult to say what a car will be like 100,000K miles from now no matter what brand. Too many variables: how the owner took care of the car, or the weather it resided in, or if it is city driving vs highway driving, etc. 100,000K miles is a huge amount of mechanical wear on any car.

And most problems really are the minor stuff anyways... I would gather that engine issues are a lot more rare as engine technology today is pretty robust. I don't see many people on these forums complaining that their BMW was stranded on the side of the road due to engine failures. And if they did , they got a lemon or were really bad with oil changes, etc. If a company had many engine issues with a particular car for years, the company would be out of business real soon.

I agree, you can't read into everything JDPower says, but consumers can use it as a guide. But more importantly, if you have a well known brand with even decent reliability, just take care of your car and you will be in good shape.

[CosmosMpower]

No brainer. Even a base 991 over a M2, not even in the same league.

[dmboone25]

The proof is in the pudding. I am genuinely curious to see if a standard M2, 3 or 4 could do this as well...