[Canaletto]

I don't really understand these M2 to M4 comparisons.

They're two different cars with two different goals.

They shouldn't be compared for the same reasons you don't hear people comparing the M4 and M6.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by Canaletto

I don't really understand these M2 to M4 comparisons.

They're two different cars with two different goals.

They shouldn't be compared for the same reasons you don't hear people comparing the M4 and M6.

Agreed...
those who buy 3 series do not buy 1 series and vice versa they say.....they are different niches. Many looked at the 1 series as the cheap man/young man BMW..... I have the M235 now and when the M2 comes out......and I just have to have it I will end up getting raped on my current car and then have to pay MSRP on the new one. Not sure that is going to be worth the upgrade the m2 will offer. I might be left out in the cold

The M2 is a small car for small car lovers. What I am curious about is if the M4 has 425hp, M3 has 425hp, why wouldn't they give the M2 a little more than 370hp? 400? Maybe they feel it is too much for the small track oriented car.

And of course the M5 can be had with 575hp but it is a big car......but it was nice getting hot lap ride along's in it at the PC driving school. Last year they used the m4's but this year it is the big daddy's

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

The F80 is a better choice, I don't know what people are expecting in here, but it's not going to be better than an F80, as for weeding out people I doubt you will need to, I've yet to see a single M235i here, I've only seen three 2 series in total, all three were diesel! lol, seems to me people in this forum as talking the M2 up way too much, anyone that would spend more on an M2 than an M3 just to be individual either has too much money and doesn’t care about the car, or they need their head examining, and what is it with people and manual’s? If you want a manual buy one, but stop going on like everyone that likes drives must have one or they aren’t an enthusiast

How will the F80 be automatically a better choice when:

1. M2 hasn't even been revealed, not even a concept.

2. 2 different card with different goals.

Or are you just saying your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong? Because in my eyes, M2 will be the better car. Key phrase: in my eyes.

[abp689]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

Agreed...

The M2 is a small car for small car lovers. What I am curious about is if the M4 has 425hp, M3 has 425hp, why wouldn't they give the M2 a little more than 370hp? 400? Maybe they feel it is too much for the small track oriented car.

I am hoping the M2 is stunted because this is the value driven M to get the younger buyer in the door. Otherwise, I generally don't care to pay more for less; and in this case, less does not refer to the dimension of the car.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

The F80 is a better choice, I don't know what people are expecting in here, but it's not going to be better than an F80, as for weeding out people I doubt you will need to, I've yet to see a single M235i here, I've only seen three 2 series in total, all three were diesel! lol, seems to me people in this forum as talking the M2 up way too much, anyone that would spend more on an M2 than an M3 just to be individual either has too much money and doesn’t care about the car, or they need their head examining, and what is it with people and manual’s? If you want a manual buy one, but stop going on like everyone that likes drives must have one or they aren’t an enthusiast

How do you come out and say something like that? Better choice to WHO? And what does better even mean? That might be the silliest things I've read on this thread yet.

I 100% believe the M2 is going to be more fun/playful than the M3, which has turned into a mini-M5. I've said it many times, I think in terms of what I look for in a driver's car, I thought even the M235i was better than the M3. However, the M3 is still a very impressive car that I'm still considering too. Have you had a chance to drive them?

As for my 6MT only/weed out comment, I'm just saying that I would not have minded seeing the M2 being like the 1M or GT4. Neither of those were numbers cars (even though they are pretty quick). They were just fun, period. It's got nothing to do with me not respecting DCT drivers (which is not even the case).

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by W///

How do you come out and say something like that? Better choice to WHO? And what does better even mean? That might be the silliest things I've read on this thread yet.

I 100% believe the M2 is going to be more fun/playful than the M3, which has turned into a mini-M5. I've said it many times, I think in terms of what I look for in a driver's car, I thought even the M235i was better than the M3. However, the M3 is still a very impressive car that I'm still considering too. Have you had a chance to drive them?

As for my 6MT only/weed out comment, I'm just saying that I would not have minded seeing the M2 being like the 1M or GT4. Neither of those were numbers cars (even though they are pretty quick). They were just fun, period. It's got nothing to do with me not respecting DCT drivers (which is not even the case).

I think he's butt hurt over something, I can't tell what it is though. Very condicending. If someone spends more money on an optioned M2 it does not mean they need their 'head examined' it means that the M2 does what the customer wants BETTER THAN THE F80.

More "my opinion is right and yours is wrong, stupid".

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by juyeop

It sounds like 10,000 M2 over the course of its life cycle might lead to dealer-favorable retail price or even above MSRP.

10k cars over 3 years is 3333 cars a year worldwide. If 40% (guess) go to the US market, 339 US BMW dealers will see 4 M2 allocations per year. Allocations aren't done that way; but for the sake of simplicity... Sounds tight; but, keep in mind, not all dealers want M2 allocations. It all depends on their immediate market conditions and their financial position. Find that guy and, price wise, your in.
Generally, though, in the first round, you can expect a buying frenzy so prices stay high. But when that frenzy is gone, prices are very likely going to soften. If the M2 turns out to be a so so car (horrors!!), the price will drop even faster.
If you need to have the car right away and want a price break, find a dealer willing to do ED.
If you want to spend the least (time and money) on the car then wait until next summer when round two starts.
Just some thoughts.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Reid

I agree that I'm not interested in paying anything over MSRP.

However, it seems that some are only interested in the M2 if they are someday available for invoice + $500. I don't think it's reasonable to ever expect the supply of the M2 to outstrip demand.

If near invoice pricing is a requirement, one should look at the M3/4.

Agree - I'm OK paying MSRP for a model that is in-demand. It's the "this car is so rare, you'll have to beg us to sell it to you for $5-10K above MSRP" crap that I can't tolerate.

I expect this to be the norm when the car is released and allocations start to trickle in. So I'll likely either have to be patient or bail and get an F80.

[filet.M2c]

First off, where did this 10K production over the entire life cycle rumor emerge from? Secondly, the reason I want the M2 is not because it is the "entry M" or because it is cheaper. It is because I have owned e46 M3s and a 135i and the M2 is the ideal sized car for me. The M4 is just too large a coupe for my taste and the driving dynamics of a smaller car has always attracted me. Honestly, I am not worried about power numbers as much as I am weight. After a tune and full exhaust this car will probably be in the 400-450 whp and torque range and that is more enough. Sure the same mods in an M4 will take you to 460-500 whp/ torque but these guys are having trouble getting traction with 305 sectional tires. So yes, the whole "better" idea is subjective and in my opinion I think the M2 will be a better car.

[Artemis]

Compact is cool.

[juyeop]

Originally Posted by fuddman

10k cars over 3 years is 3333 cars a year worldwide. If 40% (guess) go to the US market, 339 US BMW dealers will see 4 M2 allocations per year. Allocations aren't done that way; but for the sake of simplicity... Sounds tight; but, keep in mind, not all dealers want M2 allocations. It all depends on their immediate market conditions and their financial position. Find that guy and, price wise, your in.
Generally, though, in the first round, you can expect a buying frenzy so prices stay high. But when that frenzy is gone, prices are very likely going to soften. If the M2 turns out to be a so so car (horrors!!), the price will drop even faster.
If you need to have the car right away and want a price break, find a dealer willing to do ED.
If you want to spend the least (time and money) on the car then wait until next summer when round two starts.
Just some thoughts.

That's why I'm trying to go for 2018 M2 man. First year will be mess from all those long-awaited buyers like us.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

Agreed...
those who buy 3 series do not buy 1 series and vice versa they say.....they are different niches.

I sold my M3 for the GT4 and am considering the M2. I'm sure many car enthusiasts would buy M3 vs M2.

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by Reid

Obviously the M2 will not be faster in a straight-line or have more horsepower than a M4 <etc.>.

I think the article nailed it:

"M2 consumers" are those who will actually purchase the car, not those who claim to be in the market for one.

The gist of the article was that the M2 via options or limited availability will approach the price range of the M3/M4 and, as such, will not represent an obvious value to most. This will constrain the market to a few that are looking for some (unidentified in the article) unique premium capabilities offered by the M2. If I understood what your post was saying in regard to the article in play, I might respond.

As for 'consumers' versus 'claim to be in the market', it appears logic would dictate that all in this forum are in the latter category until sometime next year. Then, if the car is beneath expectations a few fanboy diehards will still purchase one. On the other hand, if it excels compared to the competition, most of us in this forum would likely have one given reasonable availability and financial ability.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Will I have trouble obtaining an M2?

No.
It, simply depends on when you want it and how much you have in the bank.
Want one of the first ones? Hand the dealer a blank check, you'll go right to the top of the list. Sort of like what they do with new Ferrari's.
Want an invoice deal? Then you'll have to bide your time and stay smart, like the rest of us bargain hunters.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Spook410

The gist of the article was that the M2 via options or limited availability will approach the price range of the M3/M4 and, as such, will not represent an obvious value to most. This will constrain the market to a few that are looking for some (unidentified in the article) unique premium capabilities offered by the M2. If I understood what your post was saying in regard to the article in play, I might respond.

I understood that the author was hinting to the fact that - as also the E82 1M experiment pointed out - (some) enthusiasts yearn for getting a compact pocket-rocket, mainly because of the driving dynamics and size. Nimble and agile. Powerful, but no hp overkill, allowing to put all the power down properly throughout the rev range. Offering a lot of driving joy.

Hierarchy in the ///M line-up and the price-tag matters less for those enthusiasts. It's all about what the driver experiences, the feedback the car provides, the car's capabilities.

[Spook410]

I do not doubt that it would have been a better article had you done an edit for him Artemis.

I think most of us want something more agile and fun than an M3/M4. I do depart from the authors position on the result of a poor value proposition. If it costs too much, we won't see more M3/M4 sales or individuals happy to pay a premium for the M2 wheelbase. Instead we'll see more happy Porsche Cayman owners.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by Zoli007

Im getting more and more excited about the car as more pics are released of it.

Im 90% on the car now. I'm between this or an F80 M3.

I've noticed a few guys on the forum that are deciding between the M2 and the M3. Why not the M4? The M2 is a coupe as is the M4 (just way bigger) but the M3 is a large sedan. The M3 is high performance of course, but to my eyes a completely different kind of car. It's like saying "I'm considering a base 911 or Panamara S."

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

I've noticed a few guys on the forum that are deciding between the M2 and the M3. Why not the M4? The M2 is a coupe as is the M4 (just way bigger) but the M3 is a large sedan. The M3 is high performance of course, but to my eyes a completely different kind of car. It's like saying "I'm considering a base 911 or Panamara S."

I can only speak for myself of course. For me, I just like the way the M3 looks better than the M4. And if I'm going to have a car that size, I'd rather have a sedan. Can't go wrong either way, of course.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by KevinM

And if I'm going to have a car that size, I'd rather have a sedan.

I was thinking the same thing and didn't even consider the M4. More sport vs more size and luxury.

If I was in the market for a M4 I'd probably end up getting a 911. Just personal preference.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

I've noticed a few guys on the forum that are deciding between the M2 and the M3. Why not the M4? The M2 is a coupe as is the M4 (just way bigger) but the M3 is a large sedan. The M3 is high performance of course, but to my eyes a completely different kind of car. It's like saying "I'm considering a base 911 or Panamara S."

Personally think the M3 looks infinitely better than the M4. Also, if they had made an M2 Gran Coupe, I would have gone for that as I already have too many 2 door coupes. But I'll let that slide if the M2 turns out to be as great of a driving car as we hope.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by W///

Personally think the M3 looks infinitely better than the M4. Also, if they had made an M2 Gran Coupe, I would have gone for that as I already have too many 2 door coupes. But I'll let that slide if the M2 turns out to be as great of a driving car as we hope.

Agreed. I'm in the same boat. If for whatever reason the M2 doesn't quite light my fire then I'm ordering an M3 without batting an eye.

Every now and then I start feeling whimsical and reconsider the M4 as an alternative but then I take a good long look at one and its large, soft bloated bodywork and immediately scratch it off my list again.

[SilverEmu]

If the article is correct, it kind of contradicts 2 things:
- M2 was supposed to help lower the admission prices to the M rank for younger buyers (as I think was mentioned here before). Making it harder and more expensive to obtain will kill that.
- BMW will act like this is the only car in the segment (yeah, yeah, pure RWD experience et all), with Mercedes and Audi eating them alive in terms of power/torque figures and prices. Now I realize those 2 will not play in the same league, especially for us dudes hanging out on this forum, but I don't think BMW will want to fully drop the value proposition out completely here. I honestly think (and secretly hope) they will lose this game.

I think it is sad that BMW have the leverage nowadays to play with us enthusiasts like that. Basically the features they plan on incorporating in the M2 were the main characteristics of series BMWs in the past - good steering, RWD (damn! my in town dealer has no manual RWD in stock), standard transmission as, well, standard (now it is a no charge option, LOL), simply put, a honest and pure driver's car. I know, I know, it's the market reality that they have to adjust to, but I honestly hope that it will the same market reality that will keep them in check.

...but these are just my opinions.