[grinchmas]

At the track yesterday I got my first "Engine overheating" and "Engine overheated" warnings after about 2 years of track days. This was my 2nd day here in CO but all of my previous days have been in NC, mostly at VIR. I'm running a custom stage 2 tune with all supporting mods and have never come close to overheating, even during longer (45 min) sessions.
My question is, what triggers this warning? I saw my oil temp was 255F and my coolant was 240F (running in traction mode) which didn't seem too out of the ordinary from what I've previously seen. It occurred a couple times throughout the session but only during WOT on the back straight.

Edit for more info:
I did recently have the condenser replaced due to a leak, as well as the oil changed. This happened during the 5th session of the day after lunch and 4 sessions in the morning.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

At the track yesterday I got my first "Engine overheating" and "Engine overheated" warnings after about 2 years of track days. This was my 2nd day here in CO but all of my previous days have been in NC, mostly at VIR. I'm running a custom stage 2 tune with all supporting mods and have never come close to overheating, even during longer (45 min) sessions.
My question is, what triggers this warning? I saw my oil temp was 255F and my coolant was 240F (running in traction mode) which didn't seem too out of the ordinary from what I've previously seen. It occurred a couple times throughout the session but only during WOT on the back straight.

Edit for more info:
I did recently have the condenser replaced due to a leak, as well as the oil changed. This happened during the 5th session of the day after lunch and 4 sessions in the morning.

Fellow CO resident. If you're not already, run 100% water with water wetter vs coolant. Crank the heat to max and direct the vents to the windows while on track.

If that doesn't get you there, time to upgrade coolers. The hot dry air is really problematic on cooling effectiveness and IATs.

[grinchmas]

Gotcha, yeah I definitely noticed with the brake heat as well (discounting the braking differences between tracks).. front calipers went from slightly discolored to dark green/black after 1 session
When you say "cooler", which part(s) are you referring to?

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

Gotcha, yeah I definitely noticed with the brake heat as well (discounting the braking differences between tracks).. front calipers went from slightly discolored to dark green/black after 1 session
When you say "cooler", which part(s) are you referring to?

Sorry, radiators. I'm sure OG Shark can point you in the right direction for this platform.

[Anonymoose]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Sorry, radiators. I'm sure OG Shark can point you in the right direction for this platform.

If you have money to spend he is definitely the guy to talk to

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

Gotcha, yeah I definitely noticed with the brake heat as well (discounting the braking differences between tracks).. front calipers went from slightly discolored to dark green/black after 1 session
When you say "cooler", which part(s) are you referring to?

Unfortunately the OGs struggle with heat. Like DRLane mentioned all water + water wetter. I would also take a look at the do88 bits - do88 OG M2 page. Their radiator, remote radiator, & oil cooelrs will help out quite a bit. If the CSF DCT cooler isn't up to the task might also consider the do88 piece. This might not be the cure-all though - the OGs just struggle here. But they should go a long ways towards helping out and allow temps to drop quicker during cool downs.

Ethanol might be a consideration depending on how far you want to go down the rabbit hole. Fueling has been catching up the last couple of years to allow for higher ethanol contents as well. Will help keep power from being pulled as IATs increase.

Brakes - yeah as you increase power & grip on these cars the oem setup can definitely start to struggle. When you start getting into that real dark green to black we figure here that you are pushing towards their threshold. Just keep on the lookout for signs of fade.

One thing might have happened - have you been running DSC completely off at your previous tracks? And this being your first time at this one DSC or MDM on while learning it? If so that might account for some of the extra heat in the braking system.

[grinchmas]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Unfortunately the OGs struggle with heat. Like DRLane mentioned all water + water wetter. I would also take a look at the do88 bits - do88 OG M2 page. Their radiator, remote radiator, & oil cooelrs will help out quite a bit. If the CSF DCT cooler isn't up to the task might also consider the do88 piece. This might not be the cure-all though - the OGs just struggle here. But they should go a long ways towards helping out and allow temps to drop quicker during cool downs.

Ethanol might be a consideration depending on how far you want to go down the rabbit hole. Fueling has been catching up the last couple of years to allow for higher ethanol contents as well. Will help keep power from being pulled as IATs increase.

Brakes - yeah as you increase power & grip on these cars the oem setup can definitely start to struggle. When you start getting into that real dark green to black we figure here that you are pushing towards their threshold. Just keep on the lookout for signs of fade.

One thing might have happened - have you been running DSC completely off at your previous tracks? And this being your first time at this one DSC or MDM on while learning it? If so that might account for some of the extra heat in the braking system.

Thanks for replying! I actually ended up ordering those 3 do88 parts the other day after doing some research so good to see I chose well. After swapping to water + water wetter and getting the do88 bits installed we'll see how it works out. I have the CSF intercooler and DCT cooler already but might swap those out depending on the results; they've seemed to hold up well so far.

I'll keep ethanol in mind but would prefer to stay on regular 91 oct for the time being.

Yep, definitely was in traction mode for the first day so that was a contributing factor. Also my previous track, VIR, had way more time in between hard braking zones than I do here at High Plains so they were able to vent heat better

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

Thanks for replying! I actually ended up ordering those 3 do88 parts the other day after doing some research so good to see I chose well. After swapping to water + water wetter and getting the do88 bits installed we'll see how it works out. I have the CSF intercooler and DCT cooler already but might swap those out depending on the results; they've seemed to hold up well so far.

I'll keep ethanol in mind but would prefer to stay on regular 91 oct for the time being.

Yep, definitely was in traction mode for the first day so that was a contributing factor. Also my previous track, VIR, had way more time in between hard braking zones than I do here at High Plains so they were able to vent heat better

What are your thoughts on HPR?

[grinchmas]

Originally Posted by DRLane

What are your thoughts on HPR?

It's a fun time! Admittedly I was bit skeptical coming from VIR but the two times I've been out have been a blast. It's not as fast but I've been enjoying working through the turns to find which lines work best.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

Thanks for replying! I actually ended up ordering those 3 do88 parts the other day after doing some research so good to see I chose well. After swapping to water + water wetter and getting the do88 bits installed we'll see how it works out. I have the CSF intercooler and DCT cooler already but might swap those out depending on the results; they've seemed to hold up well so far.

I'll keep ethanol in mind but would prefer to stay on regular 91 oct for the time being.

Yep, definitely was in traction mode for the first day so that was a contributing factor. Also my previous track, VIR, had way more time in between hard braking zones than I do here at High Plains so they were able to vent heat better

Awesome - think you will be very happy with that setup. Excellent coolers. On the intercooler though I would put the caution out there that it does induce a bit of lag. Think their coolers are the top choice for the N55 but might consider other intercoolers if you decide to move away from the CSF. Completely understand not wanting to get into E and keeping it simple with pump gas - just more of an fyi that it is an option that will definitely help if still battling heat issues after tackling the other bits.

Yeah DSC/MDM as much as they can be useful can also bite back a bit with the brakes. Just keep a close eye on them. I would hit up DRLane about the levels of brakes stress at the tracks on that side of the country. The characteristics of the OG F87 & E9x are similar enough that the E9x can provide a decent barometer of what to eventually expect with the OG M2 (imo).

[fleetfoot]

You mentioned that your tune is custom. Who created it for you? How aggressive is it compared to the AA track tune?

[pal]

+1 to fleetfoot's question. Also, since you moved from the east coast, I am guessing your tune is optimized for 93 octane. Since you didn't have issues there, it is possible that 91 octane is causing the ECU to pull a lot of timing to protect the engine from knock events and generating heat. A cheap test is to throw some Boostane or Racegas octane additive to raise the blended octane level to 94-95 and see if it helps. The elevation of HPR (5000 ft vs 400 ft for VIR) is likely also making the motor work harder - thinner and less oxygen rich air. If this helps, May be worth getting a 91 octane tune.

[pal]

Originally Posted by "OG Shark"

The characteristics of the OG F87 & E9x are similar enough that the E9x can provide a decent barometer of what to eventually expect with the OG M2 (imo)

Slightly off topic (sorry OP), but I've never heard this before. Please share some context. TIA.

[grinchmas]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Awesome - think you will be very happy with that setup. Excellent coolers. On the intercooler though I would put the caution out there that it does induce a bit of lag. Think their coolers are the top choice for the N55 but might consider other intercoolers if you decide to move away from the CSF. Completely understand not wanting to get into E and keeping it simple with pump gas - just more of an fyi that it is an option that will definitely help if still battling heat issues after tackling the other bits.

Yeah DSC/MDM as much as they can be useful can also bite back a bit with the brakes. Just keep a close eye on them. I would hit up DRLane about the levels of brakes stress at the tracks on that side of the country. The characteristics of the OG F87 & E9x are similar enough that the E9x can provide a decent barometer of what to eventually expect with the OG M2 (imo).

For sure, it's been on since pretty early on in my build so I haven't noticed too much lag or have just gotten used to it by now
Yep, I try to run DSC off once I've learned the track a bit more so that shouldn't be a problem for much longer!

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

You mentioned that your tune is custom. Who created it for you? How aggressive is it compared to the AA track tune?

Its by Cary Jordan of JordanTuned; last I had it dynoed it was putting out ~397hp and 480ftlbs. I'm not familiar with the AA track tune so I can't answer that.

Originally Posted by pal

+1 to fleetfoot's question. Also, since you moved from the east coast, I am guessing your tune is optimized for 93 octane. Since you didn't have issues there, it is possible that 91 octane is causing the ECU to pull a lot of timing to protect the engine from knock events and generating heat. A cheap test is to throw some Boostane or Racegas octane additive to raise the blended octane level to 94-95 and see if it helps. The elevation of HPR (5000 ft vs 400 ft for VIR) is likely also making the motor work harder - thinner and less oxygen rich air. If this helps, May be worth getting a 91 octane tune.

It was for 93 but had it changed to 91 shortly after moving when I upgraded the HPFP.

[pal]

Originally Posted by "grinchmas"

Its by Cary Jordan of JordanTuned; last I had it dynoed it was putting out ~397hp and 480ftlbs. I'm not familiar with the AA track tune so I can't answer that.

Was this on a Dynojet with SAE correction? The peak power is def on the high side of what I've seen on stage 2 M2's. Most are in the 375-385 range. Would love to see your dyno curve. Also, what HPFP did you go with and are you happy with it?

Lastly, I think it may be worth testing a track day with some octane booster and see if it helps. Even a 91 tune at 5000ft is probably pushing against knock parameters under sustained load. Just a thought before you do all the cooling mods.

[3LiterBeater]

I did speak with AA regarding tunes and safety on track (after hearing of two cars with cracked pistons due to ignored limp modes/ "aggressive" tunes)

Using the M235iR as a reference point as it has the same engine, he found that any N55 car will start to lose power even at stock power levels. I don't doubt that much of this has to do with the factory intercooler being a tad small. As mentioned though, I do feel my car pull power a few laps into a session. I recall him mentioning that some do their pro teams use "less aggressive" tunes to help mitigate power loss as the car heats up (if I recall correctly, I'll reach back out to him to verify)

All in, I could not find a strong enough argument to convince myself that any tune was needed on this engine. I swapped out for a catless downpipe (and run with a CEL), have yet to experience any limp modes. My feelings are that the tune only offers higher power until things get hot, and then settles to what factory software will offer. I don't have solid data to confirm this, however. I'd love to see if someone had that.

[ZM2]

100 octane or E85 always helps on air-to-air intercooled cars on hot track days, even if you're not tuned for it.

The most power I've been able to run stable on 100F+ track days is Stg 2 E30 (~415whp).

However, I'm now running an E50 tune (480whp/535wftlbs), have the Evo 3 IC and all the oil/water coolers, just added the M2 CS Racing BMW Motorsports DCT pan (had to replace my DCT filters & remove stock pan anyways) and switched back to the OE DCT cooler for more airflow across the radiator, am running 100% water & wetter, and added a GTS hood for more airflow thru the nose & engine bay.

So, we'll see in a month or so how she holds up, and I'll update this thread then: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...hlight=extreme

Bottom line, if you add power you'll need all the hardware cooling mods possible, and run a mix of race gas or ethanol if you don't want power pulled.

[grinchmas]

Originally Posted by pal

Was this on a Dynojet with SAE correction? The peak power is def on the high side of what I've seen on stage 2 M2's. Most are in the 375-385 range. Would love to see your dyno curve. Also, what HPFP did you go with and are you happy with it?

Lastly, I think it may be worth testing a track day with some octane booster and see if it helps. Even a 91 tune at 5000ft is probably pushing against knock parameters under sustained load. Just a thought before you do all the cooling mods.

It was a Dynojet, I'll upload the pulls on tune and with/without tune. I got the Dorch Stage 2 and have no complaints at all so far, it definitely seems to do the trick.

Originally Posted by ZM2

100 octane or E85 always helps on air-to-air intercooled cars on hot track days, even if you're not tuned for it.

The most power I've been able to run stable on 100F+ track days is Stg 2 E30 (~415whp).

However, I'm now running an E50 tune (480whp/535wftlbs), have the Evo 3 IC and all the oil/water coolers, just added the M2 CS Racing BMW Motorsports DCT pan (had to replace my DCT filters & remove stock pan anyways) and switched back to the OE DCT cooler for more airflow across the radiator, am running 100% water & wetter, and added a GTS hood for more airflow thru the nose & engine bay.

So, we'll see in a month or so how she holds up, and I'll update this thread then: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...hlight=extreme

Bottom line, if you add power you'll need all the hardware cooling mods possible, and run a mix of race gas or ethanol if you don't want power pulled.

Gotcha, thanks for the info! The track here has 100 octane at the pump so I might give that a shot soon as well for shits and giggles.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

It was a Dynojet, I'll upload the pulls on tune and with/without tune. I got the Dorch Stage 2 and have no complaints at all so far, it definitely seems to do the trick.

Attachment 2904491


Gotcha, thanks for the info! The track here has 100 octane at the pump so I might give that a shot soon as well for shits and giggles.

Cool. You don’t need a full tank, just 1/3 or half race gas or e85 to bump the octane level up on hot days when you feel power being pulled due to IATs >110F.

And, with that kind of power curve in your tune, I would be shifting at 6k to maximize power and to generate less upper RPM heat.

[///393]

Originally Posted by grinchmas

Yep, definitely was in traction mode for the first day so that was a contributing factor.

Circling back on this at risk of asking a dumb question but the OG M2 has Sport+ (MDM) and then an actual traction mode which is activated by pressing the traction control button once.

Are you running on track in traction mode? If so, why?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

Circling back on this at risk of asking a dumb question but the OG M2 has Sport+ (MDM) and then an actual traction mode which is activated by pressing the traction control button once.

Are you running on track in traction mode? If so, why?

MDM in both drive modes is the same. The steering and throttle responses are different.

Also, Traction mode runs the Comfort like cooling profile, which is dumb on BMW’s part, so I only use it in the rain. DSC off for the dry.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1574055

[grinchmas]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

Circling back on this at risk of asking a dumb question but the OG M2 has Sport+ (MDM) and then an actual traction mode which is activated by pressing the traction control button once.

Are you running on track in traction mode? If so, why?

Like ZM2 said above, I prefer the steering and throttle of Traction over the artificial steering weight and touchy throttle in Sport+. I do wish it didn't run the Comfort cooling setting though.