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      10-13-2018, 06:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydesmo View Post
Break-in is a myth, they put a whole lot of bullshit in the manual, bmw M performance cars get sent to skidpads, road courses, autocrosses with 10 miles on them.

They get trashed till about 7k miles.

No problems.
This isn't true. The Performance Center recruits drivers from the local CCA chapter to help break-in drive new M cars.
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      10-13-2018, 07:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydesmo View Post
Example: it gives you SPEED LIMITS for break-in.

Why would you have a speed limit for break-in? You aren't breaking in the tires, or the wheels, you're breaking in the engine right, the engine cares about RPM and Load only, not mph lolol
After the first 100-200 miles, the majority of the break-in is the drivetrain -- gears, especially bevel gears in the differential, clutch disc to pressure plate/flywheel interface takes at least 1000 shifts done with light to moderate loads to achieve maximum clamping force, LSD discs need a similar light to moderate activation, etc. Mechanical Engineering is actually a science.
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      10-13-2018, 08:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub486 View Post
Nice numbers. Only a touch below non zcp m4 numbers?

OP what tune do you plan to run? I'd love to see another stock dyno with 2-3 gallons of e85 in the tank to see how it responds.
[QUOTE=jdub486;23844200]Nice numbers. Only a touch below non zcp m4 numbers?


Only time will tell, parts for this thing aren't cheap. I'd like breathers and maybe upgraded twins down the line. I'm not a fan of E85. I live in the city and there are no stations near me with access to it.
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      10-13-2018, 09:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
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Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Yikes, that's like 477 horsepower at the crank! No wonder it pulls like a freight train.
Dynojets are known to read pretty high, those could be uncorrected numbers ran in cold weather. Still pretty nice numbers.
It was about 70 degrees ambient temperature today in New York, which based on his handle, I assume the OP is from..
It was in the 60s on Friday. Perfect weather, the car stayed pretty cool over the 5 runs with 5-10 min intervals in between to cool down.
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      10-13-2018, 09:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydesmo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Consider reading the manual. If that was the case they wouldn't have an entire section dedicated to break in. The car also has special break in fluids specifically for the first 1200 miles.
Example: it gives you SPEED LIMITS for break-in.

Why would you have a speed limit for break-in? You aren't breaking in the tires, or the wheels, you're breaking in the engine right, the engine cares about RPM and Load only, not mph lolol
When I picked up the car I asked a bunch of times to numerous people at Hoffman Bmw. They said take it to the track if I wanted. Also I found it weird. Almost all other Ms had the lights on the tachometer to show car is warm or speed limit ect. This car doesn't have any of those things.

Also a good friend of mine had a 2015 m4 and all he gained after the 1200 interval was launch control ect. Nothing about keeping under 5k rpm ect.
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      10-13-2018, 09:05 AM   #28
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These are STD numbers. Can be seen at the top right corner.

Pretty good results. Ask Dyno shop to convert mph into rpm though. I see the most of the pulls were in 4th gear beside one 5th. Not that 4th and 5th make any difference at all, just to show the spool up rpm.

It looks 400whp dynojet STD numbers are legit for M2C.
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      10-13-2018, 09:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
These are STD numbers. Can be seen at the top right corner.
You got better eyes than this old tired rat

So there goes about 4% vs SAE so let's say 385whp.
With 15% drivetrain loss we would be at 442, even with just using 10% it's 423hp so more than BMW claims.

Pretty nice!
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      10-13-2018, 09:30 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
You got better eyes than this old tired rat

So there goes about 4% vs SAE so let's say 385whp.
With 15% drivetrain loss we would be at 442, even with just using 10% it's 423hp so more than BMW claims.

Pretty nice!
SAE is 3% lower not 4%. At 400hp, we're talking 10~15hp difference so it kinda matters.

Using dynojet number multiplied by 115% is not a good way of calculating crank power. Dynojet is all about comparability thanks to its consistency (comparatively speaking) across temp, humidity and altitude, when corrected.

We all the time say BMW underates power. But who doesn't? Merc and Audi all show good power on dynojet. This is just about the most misinterpreted things in tuning world. Truth is BMW does not underrate.
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      10-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
It looks 400whp dynojet STD numbers are legit for M2C.
Looks as expected (slightly detuned) when compared to an M4 dynojet run:

stock M4 - 420whp 422wtq:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...39&postcount=1

stock M2:

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253319
IND
336whp and 371wtq on 93

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1270926
Fabspeed
332whp and 378wtq on 93 (presumably)

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1367346
VF Engineering
329whp and 362wtq on 91

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253475
Burger
330whp and 368wtq on 91
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      10-13-2018, 01:55 PM   #32
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here are the vids, please ignore how dirty the car is

https://youtu.be/igjaxYgW-5A

https://youtu.be/cjRM4YiApZc

Last edited by NY135ivishnu; 10-13-2018 at 02:03 PM..
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      10-13-2018, 02:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
After the first 100-200 miles, the majority of the break-in is the drivetrain -- gears, especially bevel gears in the differential, clutch disc to pressure plate/flywheel interface takes at least 1000 shifts done with light to moderate loads to achieve maximum clamping force, LSD discs need a similar light to moderate activation, etc. Mechanical Engineering is actually a science.
All those things you are listing aren’t adversely impacted
from mph, only rpm and load... again.

For real break in you want varying rpm and load, you want to slowly and progressively increase heat, rpm, and load during I initial break-in.

I guarantee you these cars are all fully broken in, driven and revved from 2k to redline at all load levels before they are shipped out

Mechanical engineering is actually a science and the bulk of what’s in your owners manual is marketing science....
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      10-13-2018, 02:12 PM   #34
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This gives good insight.

If engine break in took time and required babying for a few hundred or thousand miles professional drag Ravi f wouldn’t exist.
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      10-13-2018, 04:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydesmo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
After the first 100-200 miles, the majority of the break-in is the drivetrain -- gears, especially bevel gears in the differential, clutch disc to pressure plate/flywheel interface takes at least 1000 shifts done with light to moderate loads to achieve maximum clamping force, LSD discs need a similar light to moderate activation, etc. Mechanical Engineering is actually a science.
All those things you are listing aren't adversely impacted
from mph, only rpm and load... again.

For real break in you want varying rpm and load, you want to slowly and progressively increase heat, rpm, and load during I initial break-in.

I guarantee you these cars are all fully broken in, driven and revved from 2k to redline at all load levels before they are shipped out

Mechanical engineering is actually a science and the bulk of what's in your owners manual is marketing science....

You're 100% correct, forward the video below to 28:24:

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      10-13-2018, 04:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydesmo View Post
All those things you are listing aren’t adversely impacted
from mph, only rpm and load... again.

For real break in you want varying rpm and load, you want to slowly and progressively increase heat, rpm, and load during I initial break-in.

I guarantee you these cars are all fully broken in, driven and revved from 2k to redline at all load levels before they are shipped out

Mechanical engineering is actually a science and the bulk of what’s in your owners manual is marketing science....
I agree, there is very little actual evidence that break in is required on modern cars. The break in instructions give the owner the impression that the car is even more special than a normal BMW. Early fluid changes can't hurt, but it's more psychology than anything else I think at this point.
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      10-13-2018, 05:04 PM   #37
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Does anyone know how this is done in Canada? Also is it just S engines or also the N55 on the 2016-2018 M2?
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      10-13-2018, 05:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Looks as expected (slightly detuned) when compared to an M4 dynojet run:

stock M4 - 420whp 422wtq:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...39&postcount=1

stock M2:

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253319
IND
336whp and 371wtq on 93

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1270926
Fabspeed
332whp and 378wtq on 93 (presumably)

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1367346
VF Engineering
329whp and 362wtq on 91

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1253475
Burger
330whp and 368wtq on 91
Wow, so we're looking at 330 to 400 whp. No wonder this thing feels a lot faster. Seems to pull harder at all points of the rev band. And I definitely feel limited keeping the thing under 5500 rpm.
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      10-13-2018, 06:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
You're 100% correct, forward the video below to 28:24:


Wow, this is awesome. Thank you!

I'd sort of intuitively figured that there was no way that break-in could really be critical for the car, but that still didn't prevent me from very strictly following the guidelines. Would HATE to be the dude whose engine blew up, and then got on this forum, complained about it, and have everyone say, "Well, you idiot, you were at redline from the get-go. Your own fault!"

It stands to reason that you can't possibly release a product in 2018 and expect consumers to follow usage guidelines that require strict adherence to X, Y, and Z. That would be like Apple releasing an iPhone and telling everyone, "Okay, for the first month, you can't be on any single phone call for more than 60 minutes... or else the phone blows up."

But, finally, I will also say that break-in guidelines probably saved me from killing myself. As a number of folks have pointed out, the break-in period really is more about noob's getting used to their cars. Most powerful car I owned before this was 240HP. Staying under 5500 RPM probably helped to prevent me from going off the side of a mountain during the first 2 weeks I had the car.
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      10-13-2018, 06:27 PM   #40
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[/QUOTE]

No problem, I knew of this video and numerous other factory clips of BMW/Mini vehicles being factory tested/ broken in at maximum velocity..

I figure doubters wouldn't believe it even with proof staring them in the face, so I didn't bother posting it until now.

Some people just love living the lie..

But I would add that you should take it easy for the first couple hundred miles.. However, there is no added power at the 1,200 mile service. The End.

Reasons why there is a suggested break in:

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec....jsp?techid=85

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec...e.jsp?techid=5
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      10-13-2018, 08:35 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydesmo View Post
Break-in is a myth, they put a whole lot of bullshit in the manual, bmw M performance cars get sent to skidpads, road courses, autocrosses with 10 miles on them.

They get trashed till about 7k miles.

No problems.
This isn't true. The Performance Center recruits drivers from the local CCA chapter to help break-in drive new M cars.
I helped break in a 2018 550 when it was rolled out brand new.

It had 32 miles on the clock and it was at the M Track Day in Miami.

We launched it, did full throttle, redlined it all during the 0-60-0 exercise we did.

4 groups of 20 people helped do it.

Break in are guidelines and I follow them mostly to get rid of that first set of oil that has the initial particles of the engine, but these cars are ready to rock from the get go.

My CA told me in the past they did have M3/M4 detuned and then fully opened up after break in service but that had gone away for quite some years now.

They just enable the launch control and RIS.
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      10-13-2018, 08:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN_M2C View Post
Break in are guidelines and I follow them mostly to get rid of that first set of oil that has the initial particles of the engine, but these cars are ready to rock from the get go.
Not trying to debate if break in is necessary for modern vehicles, but if there are particles to get rid of from its first oil change, the engine is not ready from get go.

There's a certain level of honing with any kind of machinery fit. More precision it has, more chance you'll get away with doing that in a hard way. Just 1200 mile or 2000km, not taking the risk isn't a bad option for a personal car. Media or bmw training stuff sometimes just had to risk it to do their job, and they don't care because none of these cars are personal and they don't take the consequences.
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      10-13-2018, 08:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN_M2C View Post
Break in are guidelines and I follow them mostly to get rid of that first set of oil that has the initial particles of the engine, but these cars are ready to rock from the get go.
Not trying to debate if break in is necessary for modern vehicles, but if there are particles to get rid of from its first oil change, the engine is not ready from get go.

There's a certain level of honing with any kind of machinery fit. More precision it has, more chance you'll get away with doing that in a hard way. Just 1200 mile or 2000km, not taking a risk isn't a bad option.
I hear you. The initial shavings and particles I meant is because I have broken in engines on a dyno as it gets tuned. And that first oil is the one I mean.

These cars (BMW) I follow it because I am pretty sure if something bad went wrong before 1200 miles the has to be some data log they could look at and confirm how many redlines, launches and all that other fun stuff the car had.

I wasted money doing Blackstone analysis on the first 3 oil changes in the M2. Every time it came back saying it was perfect and I was babying the car. When I was actually roughing it up every single time I pulled out of the garage.
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      10-13-2018, 11:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN_M2C View Post
I hear you. The initial shavings and particles I meant is because I have broken in engines on a dyno as it gets tuned. And that first oil is the one I mean.

These cars (BMW) I follow it because I am pretty sure if something bad went wrong before 1200 miles the has to be some data log they could look at and confirm how many redlines, launches and all that other fun stuff the car had.

I wasted money doing Blackstone analysis on the first 3 oil changes in the M2. Every time it came back saying it was perfect and I was babying the car. When I was actually roughing it up every single time I pulled out of the garage.
Yeah I am not sure Blackstone is all that useful. A lot of people with E9x M3 and E6x M5/M6 with S65 and S85 engines received sparkling Blackstone reports and still had rod bearing failure.
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