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      01-20-2014, 03:09 PM   #67
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Lightweight, 4 cyl, spartan, track focused M2 makes a lot of sense. It would create space between it and the m3/4 and would be an exciting product for enthusiasts. Something along the lines of the brz/frs with 300 hp. If it had less hp than an m235 but had much lighter weight and better driving dynamics, it would still work.
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      01-20-2014, 03:09 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan
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Originally Posted by dd1981
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Drop two cylinders of the Autoexpress article.

BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive.
Where did you get the confirmation of a 4cyl?
Is this a serious question? He has been our inside man FOR YEARS, and he's always right. Bite your tongue!!!
Easy brother I'm on the same team I didn't know he worked for BMW.
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      01-20-2014, 03:10 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Where did you get the confirmation of a 4cyl?
He works for BMW. Take a look at his previous posts to see the insight he has adds to the forum over the years.
Yes thank you. I already got yelled at for not knowing.

Carry on.

For the record if no one heard me the first 71 times I really want an M2!!!
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      01-20-2014, 03:18 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Easy brother I'm on the same team I didn't know he worked for BMW.
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Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Yes thank you. I already got yelled at for not knowing.

Carry on.

For the record if no one heard me the first 71 times I really want an M2!!!
Those yelling should also remember that he isn't always right, and that the accuracy of his "gospel" has been slightly less so lately. My guess is that the SCOTT26 (27 on other forums) username is actually accessed by multiple indivuals now, and that might not have been the case in say, 2008.

Additionally, we tend to get a lot more marketing BS from him now than we used to, which I don't tend to enjoy.

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      01-20-2014, 03:18 PM   #71
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I can't believe this bullsh*t!
Turbo engine only? hm ok..., ugly rear lights? hm ok..., cheap interior? hm ok..., and so on... but a soulless 4cyl.? really? are you kidding me? no way. Keep that crap BMW or save it for some ppl who wants a 10-20kg lighter car and are naive enough to believe in some high revving 4 cyl...
Really great work BMW.
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      01-20-2014, 03:24 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by jackmcclane View Post
I can't believe this bullsh*t!
Turbo engine only? hm ok..., ugly rear lights? hm ok..., cheap interior? hm ok..., and so on... but a soulless 4cyl.? really? are you kidding me? no way.
Simmer down, Ricky Bobby. Having 4-cylinders does not make an engine soulless.

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Originally Posted by jackmcclane View Post
Keep that crap BMW or save it for some ppl who wants a 10-20kg lighter car and are naive enough to believe in some high revving 4 cyl...
You really had something going there until the naive part. What exactly is naive about wanting a lightweight car powered by an engine that is designed with similar goals in mind (lower weight)?

If you're looking for examples of naivety, have a look in the mirror. If you want an I6, BMW already makes a car for you; it's called the M235i. Add the LSD and it's likely you'll still be under the entry price point for the M2.
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      01-20-2014, 03:27 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Those yelling should also remember that he isn't always right, and that the accuracy of his "gospel" has been slightly less so lately. My guess is that the SCOTT26 (27 on other forums) username is actually accessed by multiple indivuals now, and that might not have been the case in say, 2008.

Additionally, we tend to get a lot more marketing BS from him now than we used to, which I don't tend to enjoy.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm appreciative of the information he's willing to share, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions. For example, someone asked him if there would be any colors other than yellow and blue an NAIAS; he said no. Photos of a black M4 showed up on Bimmerpost three (maybe four) days later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SCOTT26 is dishonest or anything. It's just that he can't possibly have all the answers all the time. He can only tell us what he knows right now, and what he can release without getting fired. I appreciate what he does, but a savvy enthusiast always asks questions.
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      01-20-2014, 03:28 PM   #74
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Wow this car looks insane 😍
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      01-20-2014, 03:28 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Simmer down, Ricky Bobby. Having 4-cylinders does not make an engine soulless.



You really had something going there until the naive part. What exactly is naive about wanting a lightweight car powered by an engine that is designed with similar goals in mind (lower weight)?

If you're looking for examples of naivety, have a look in the mirror. If you want an I6, BMW already makes a car for you; it's called the M235i. Add the LSD and it's likely you'll still be under the entry price point for the M2.
I couldn't have said it better myself. From bmwusa's website, the 228i weight comes in at 3260 lbs with a manual transmission. That's a full 245 lbs less than a similarly equipped M235i. The weight loss would be even further possible with lightweight materials that they throw in other M-cars.
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      01-20-2014, 03:34 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I was thinking the same thing. I'm appreciative of the information he's willing to share, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions. For example, someone asked him if there would be any colors other than yellow and blue an NAIAS; he said no. Photos of a black M4 showed up on Bimmerpost three (maybe four) days later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SCOTT26 is dishonest or anything. It's just that he can't possibly have all the answers all the time. He can only tell us what he knows right now, and what he can release without getting fired. I appreciate what he does, but a savvy enthusiast always asks questions.
I think of him/her in these terms--ever read your horoscope? Ever notice that it is so general that you find yourself nodding and thinking, man this f***er really knows me! That's what some folks on here do when his comments automatically = the holy grail.

Same kind of thing here--he is good for info on a general basis, but not with enough specificty to have all the details. Case in point "there will be an M2, but it will not be tomorrow" which he has said numerous times. That's great and all, but without some specifics, you have to take it with a grain of salt and hope for the best.

Just my $.02.
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      01-20-2014, 03:40 PM   #77
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Not sure where people are getting the impression that 4 cylinder motors are so constrained power-wise. I have some bias, coming over from the Evo/STi world, but if you look at what those cars have been doing for years, and doing so reliably, you would have more faith in the M2 to be an absolute track beast, even with a 4 cyl.

I also understand there is more to power than just the peak numbers. You also want a usable power curve. The point remains that even the most conservative enthusiasts in the Evo/STi communities have been getting 350+WHP out of 2.0-2.5L 4cyl motors on stock twin-scroll turbo chargers with usable low-mid range power. Will it pull like a V8 from 1000rpm? No. But a fraction of a second later you'll forget the difference, and you'll surely make up for any delay with increased agility.

The real top-end only beasts with the dreaded turbo lag you hear about exist in the realm of 500WHP Evos with gigantic bolt-on Garrett turbos and the lack of adequate tuning and complimentary modifications to generate a usable power curve.

On the other hand, we're talking about giving ///M engineers two years to figure out how to extract, at the most, maybe ~375hp and 375lb/ft, at the crank, of usable power out of a turbocharged 4cyl, and you're worried? Even if this thing comes out with ~350hp and the same 332lb/ft with a slightly later delivery, the weight savings will make it fly.

I understand the perspective if you're somewhat of a purist and haven't had a ton of exposure to high-performing 4cyl motors. In that position, I too would look at the CLA running near 30PSI to get a mere 360hp and wonder whether that's even usable power or a sustainable setup. But if you look outside the obvious comparison car in the CLA, you will see that people all over the industry are doing amazing things with 4cyl motors.

Last edited by thomps; 01-20-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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      01-20-2014, 03:47 PM   #78
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Exactly. This isn't a black & white thing. As you increase the HP you produce from a smaller engine, you begin to see more and more symptoms of that compromise, but it's not like someone turned off a light switch.

I was originally in the "it must have an I6 or no purchase" camp, but I've changed my view a bit. I loved the N55 in my 135i, but I also remember how light and agile my GTI felt. In every measurable way, my 135i stomped my GTI, but when driving around town in everyday situations, flipping the wheel on the GTI resulted in quicker turn-in, which was actually more fun. I'm hoping the M2 will exhibit the same virtues.
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      01-20-2014, 03:52 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
So if that's true then the cla45 shares a lot in common with pretty much any current model bmw since even the current m offerings are absolutely soulless to drive. There is nothing special about the m5/6 in the way they drive let alone the other m models. The cls63 has far more character and so do the offerings of the panamera. The current m5/6 are the complete antithesis of what bmw once stood for, being fun sporty sedans. While there's more competition now, I don't think they've done a good job since every comparo seems to have them at the bottom and IMO after driving them they just don't have it anymore.
The m2 sounds like a cool idea but BMWS lower model offering feel cheap and are pretty horribly designed IMO. The proportions are just off from front to back.

So, if you feel this way, why do you drive an E92 M3?
Shouldn't you be in an AMG?
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      01-20-2014, 03:52 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Simmer down, Ricky Bobby. Having 4-cylinders does not make an engine soulless.



You really had something going there until the naive part. What exactly is naive about wanting a lightweight car powered by an engine that is designed with similar goals in mind (lower weight)?

If you're looking for examples of naivety, have a look in the mirror. If you want an I6, BMW already makes a car for you; it's called the M235i. Add the LSD and it's likely you'll still be under the entry price point for the M2.
Read my post again and you will notice with the naive part I was talking about the point that it could be a high revving 4 cyl., just look what engines we have got in the last years.
The minimum weight savings with a 4cyl. had nothing to do with the naive part.
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      01-20-2014, 04:08 PM   #81
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My father grew up on 2002's. Nothing would please me more than being able to step him into an M2. My key challenge now is do I step through an M4/M3 - or stick with the 135, saving my pennies for when this undoubtedly remarkable piece of history comes to light.
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      01-20-2014, 04:19 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by mcmn View Post
My father grew up on 2002's. Nothing would please me more than being able to step him into an M2. My key challenge now is do I step through an M4/M3 - or stick with the 135, saving my pennies for when this undoubtedly remarkable piece of history comes to light.
I'd say stick with the 1 and wait for history in the making.
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      01-20-2014, 04:23 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I was thinking the same thing. I'm appreciative of the information he's willing to share, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions. For example, someone asked him if there would be any colors other than yellow and blue an NAIAS; he said no. Photos of a black M4 showed up on Bimmerpost three (maybe four) days later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SCOTT26 is dishonest or anything. It's just that he can't possibly have all the answers all the time. He can only tell us what he knows right now, and what he can release without getting fired. I appreciate what he does, but a savvy enthusiast always asks questions.
When I report I always add not finalised or under discussion on some threads because it is under conception. I am not 100% correct all the time! but at that time what I hear is the decision , discussion etc at that point in time.
Of course not everything is the final decision and that things agreed on a Friday morning could be undone by Monday afternoon.

Some posts are marketing because of the decisions made and the reasons for doing so.

At that specific time I only knew M3 and M4 were in launch colors for the NAIAS. When I saw the black one I thought it would raised on a platform in the same way BMW do for International auto shows.

Back to the M2. Based on initial sketches.

You will know an M2 as it will be very different from an M235i in its stance and muscular bodywork.

The appearance leads on from the M235i Race car , typical facia with upturned central intake , aerodynamic spoilers around the outline of the brake intake with additional air curtain. The breather on the front wing will occupy the full length.

There is a wider track so both front and rear arches will be pronounced to accommodate 19" wheels. Although 18" will be offered.
Signature quad M exhaust ports with aerodynamic developed diffuser and a double edged Carbon fibre roof will be standard.
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      01-20-2014, 04:40 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
When I report I always add not finalised or under discussion on some threads because it is under conception. I am not 100% correct all the time! but at that time what I hear is the decision , discussion etc at that point in time.
Of course not everything is the final decision and that things agreed on a Friday morning could be undone by Monday afternoon.

Some posts are marketing because of the decisions made and the reasons for doing so.

At that specific time I only knew M3 and M4 were in launch colors for the NAIAS. When I saw the black one I thought it would raised on a platform in the same way BMW do for International auto shows.

Back to the M2. Based on initial sketches.

You will know an M2 as it will be very different from an M235i in its stance and muscular bodywork.

The appearance leads on from the M235i Race car , typical facia with upturned central intake , aerodynamic spoilers around the outline of the brake intake with additional air curtain. The breather on the front wing will occupy the full length.

There is a wider track so both front and rear arches will be pronounced to accommodate 19" wheels. Although 18" will be offered.
Signature quad M exhaust ports with aerodynamic developed diffuser and a double edged Carbon fibre roof will be standard.
Well...all the doubters just got Richard Sheman-ed.
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      01-20-2014, 04:43 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I was thinking the same thing. I'm appreciative of the information he's willing to share, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions. For example, someone asked him if there would be any colors other than yellow and blue an NAIAS; he said no. Photos of a black M4 showed up on Bimmerpost three (maybe four) days later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SCOTT26 is dishonest or anything. It's just that he can't possibly have all the answers all the time. He can only tell us what he knows right now, and what he can release without getting fired. I appreciate what he does, but a savvy enthusiast always asks questions.
When I report I always add not finalised or under discussion on some threads because it is under conception. I am not 100% correct all the time! but at that time what I hear is the decision , discussion etc at that point in time.
Of course not everything is the final decision and that things agreed on a Friday morning could be undone by Monday afternoon.

Some posts are marketing because of the decisions made and the reasons for doing so.

At that specific time I only knew M3 and M4 were in launch colors for the NAIAS. When I saw the black one I thought it would raised on a platform in the same way BMW do for International auto shows.

Back to the M2. Based on initial sketches.

You will know an M2 as it will be very different from an M235i in its stance and muscular bodywork.

The appearance leads on from the M235i Race car , typical facia with upturned central intake , aerodynamic spoilers around the outline of the brake intake with additional air curtain. The breather on the front wing will occupy the full length.

There is a wider track so both front and rear arches will be pronounced to accommodate 19" wheels. Although 18" will be offered.
Signature quad M exhaust ports with aerodynamic developed diffuser and a double edged Carbon fibre roof will be standard.
Scott thank you this sounds fantastic!!
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      01-20-2014, 05:01 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by brio View Post
So, if you feel this way, why do you drive an E92 M3?
Shouldn't you be in an AMG?
Don't feel this way about the e9x m3. This is my second e92 m3.

I'm talking about the current m5/6 in particular. Go read the reviews and better yes drive them. They are fast sleighs with numb steering and soulless character. They are devoid of all the things that made them great sport sedans in the past.
Again, there was a changing of the guards when the panamera came out and the m has really lost any edge it might have had in this segment.
I don't see it happening to the m3/4, or am hopeful it won't but even with the e92 m it's competitors were coming close.
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      01-20-2014, 05:21 PM   #87
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Pretty sure I just started saving for an M2.
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      01-20-2014, 05:31 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

You will know an M2 as it will be very different from an M235i in its stance and muscular bodywork.

The appearance leads on from the M235i Race car , typical facia with upturned central intake , aerodynamic spoilers around the outline of the brake intake with additional air curtain. The breather on the front wing will occupy the full length.

There is a wider track so both front and rear arches will be pronounced to accommodate 19" wheels. Although 18" will be offered.
Signature quad M exhaust ports with aerodynamic developed diffuser and a double edged Carbon fibre roof will be standard.
Scott,
Can you please tell us if a similar product is considered for people who require 4 doors?
(As in a M2 gran coupe, or a new 1M 4-door hatch)

Thanks.

Last edited by hwelvaar; 01-20-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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