[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

Oh please.... I or the rest of us don't care about stitching! That is not the issue. The issue is BMW is holding this car back instead of making it shine and be the standout drivers car. Who cares about 1M that's done and dusted and was a parts bin car. My point is why hold it back by not giving it the goodies like M seats and CF roof

You lot forget that the reason you are looking at the M2 is because you want the old school M3 sizes, that's the REAL reason its being made. M4 is too big and we want small agile M car same size as e30,e36 and e46 days. So again why not give it the additional goodies as I've mentioned.

You can talk about you don't care about seats you can swap them out blah blah BUT the point is I should not have to when paying this money on a car that is supposed to be the "drivers car" pick over the entire M range. As was mentioned earlier other manufacturers can do it on less priced cars so BMW can do it! We are the M enthusiasts and BMW should listen and you lot need to wake up and realise your being sold a 3/4 baked M car!

Here's the problem - the 1M formula worked. It worked so well that 100% of the cars that were made were sold. I wonder when the last time that happened for a BMW model?

As a result, consumers are going to have a hard time convincing BMW that the same formula, with tweaks for 2015 vs. 2011, isn't a hot plan...because you just made the argument yourself - driver's car inherently implies a back to basics type of approach, again from a year 2015 point of view. Limited options. Limited colors. The best parts of an M3/4 underneath. It's a damn good formula, and this car is going to sell just as well as the 1M.

If there are certain things you want out of the car, and can't get it from the factory, there are going to be many BMW performance goodies and similar products from other companies to appease multiple whims. Just don't expect it to come down the line with 1000 different variations. If you want that capability, then you need an M3/4 or higher, because at that point, you're complaints aren't about the core philosophy behind the 1M and soon to be M2.

PS - the M2's greatest bits will also originate from the "parts bin" - just sayin...

[W///]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

Oh please.... I or the rest of us don't care about stitching! That is not the issue. The issue is BMW is holding this car back instead of making it shine and be the standout drivers car. Who cares about 1M that's done and dusted and was a parts bin car. My point is why hold it back by not giving it the goodies like M seats and CF roof

You lot forget that the reason you are looking at the M2 is because you want the old school M3 sizes, that's the REAL reason its being made. M4 is too big and we want small agile M car same size as e30,e36 and e46 days. So again why not give it the additional goodies as I've mentioned.

You can talk about you don't care about seats you can swap them out blah blah BUT the point is I should not have to when paying this money on a car that is supposed to be the "drivers car" pick over the entire M range. As was mentioned earlier other manufacturers can do it on less priced cars so BMW can do it! We are the M enthusiasts and BMW should listen and you lot need to wake up and realise your being sold a 3/4 baked M car!

Just go get your Cayman GTS or E46 M3 CSL, and leave the rest of us to enjoy our 3/4 baked M car. Thanks

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Here's the problem - the 1M formula worked. It worked so well that 100% of the cars that were made were sold. I wonder when the last time that happened for a BMW model?

As a result, consumers are going to have a hard time convincing BMW that the same formula, with tweaks for 2015 vs. 2011, isn't a hot plan...because you just made the argument yourself - driver's car inherently implies a back to basics type of approach, again from a year 2015 point of view. Limited options. Limited colors. The best parts of an M3/4 underneath. It's a damn good formula, and this car is going to sell just as well as the 1M.

If there are certain things you want out of the car, and can't get it from the factory, there are going to be many BMW performance goodies and similar products from other companies to appease multiple whims. Just don't expect it to come down the line with 1000 different variations. If you want that capability, then you need an M3/4 or higher, because at that point, you're complaints aren't about the core philosophy behind the 1M and soon to be M2.

PS - the M2's greatest bits will also originate from the "parts bin" - just sayin...

It's hopeless. I like how people have so many problems with the 1M and M2 being parts bin cars, yet the GT4 is exactly that too. They are picking parts from the M division for goodness sake, not Pepboys.

Wait, I'm pretty sure I said I was done with this thread. On to the next one

[Hazey82]

Originally Posted by W///

Just go get your Cayman GTS or E46 M3 CSL, and leave the rest of us to enjoy our 3/4 baked M car. Thanks

It's hopeless. I like how people have so many problems with the 1M and M2 being parts bin cars, yet the GT4 is exactly that too. They are picking parts from the M division for goodness sake, not Pepboys.

Wait, I'm pretty sure I said I was done with this thread. On to the next one

W/// Your the first to have a response to everything and if the comment is something you don't agree on you get all narky. You have voiced your opinion on this subject a number of times. I'm not here to debate you or anyone but just give my opinion and feedback and there are some it seems that agree with me. Why are you so defensive on this subject? If you love the way the M2 is shaping out that's great and you have the right to voice that. I'm giving my opinion so don't tell me to piss off out of here like I've got no right to be here and I've interrupted your little tea party.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

Oh please.... I or the rest of us don't care about stitching! That is not the issue. The issue is BMW is holding this car back instead of making it shine and be the standout drivers car. Who cares about 1M that's done and dusted and was a parts bin car. My point is why hold it back by not giving it the goodies like M seats and CF roof

You lot forget that the reason you are looking at the M2 is because you want the old school M3 sizes, that's the REAL reason its being made. M4 is too big and we want small agile M car same size as e30,e36 and e46 days. So again why not give it the additional goodies as I've mentioned.

You can talk about you don't care about seats you can swap them out blah blah BUT the point is I should not have to when paying this money on a car that is supposed to be the "drivers car" pick over the entire M range. As was mentioned earlier other manufacturers can do it on less priced cars so BMW can do it! We are the M enthusiasts and BMW should listen and you lot need to wake up and realise your being sold a 3/4 baked M car!

It's called running a smart business. Of course they are holding the car back. Theres nothing stopping them from throwing in all the CF parts, s55, etc ... other than the fact that they're not going to cannabalize sales of the M3/M4 which is probably their most popular M model and sits in the perfect price range for its performance.

No company in their right mind would sell a product that is superior something else they make for 10k less. On the other end, it would make no sense to have 3 M cars sell for the same price either. The M2 is being marketed as the entry M whether people like it or not. Even as an "entry" M its still going to be one hell of car if the 1M is any indication.

[Karmic Man]

There is always a chance that BMW will up the performance of the M3/M4 via a competition pack offer which will leave room for the M2 to have a fairly similar performance level to the current M3/M4.

The Alfa is soon to be out with a 510hp Ferrari blessed engine so BMW might react to that.

The fact that M3/M4 have become so big that they are more like a luxury GT car now and have drift away from the previous M3 spirit of being nimble and light. Thus there is certainly room for a more sporty focus M car.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

Oh please.... I or the rest of us don't care about stitching! That is not the issue. The issue is BMW is holding this car back instead of making it shine and be the standout drivers car. Who cares about 1M that's done and dusted and was a parts bin car. My point is why hold it back by not giving it the goodies like M seats and CF roof

You lot forget that the reason you are looking at the M2 is because you want the old school M3 sizes, that's the REAL reason its being made. M4 is too big and we want small agile M car same size as e30,e36 and e46 days. So again why not give it the additional goodies as I've mentioned.

You can talk about you don't care about seats you can swap them out blah blah BUT the point is I should not have to when paying this money on a car that is supposed to be the "drivers car" pick over the entire M range. As was mentioned earlier other manufacturers can do it on less priced cars so BMW can do it! We are the M enthusiasts and BMW should listen and you lot need to wake up and realise your being sold a 3/4 baked M car!

I agree with some of the the things you are saying but if you have followed the info on the M2 for that last couple of years you should just be happy that BMW is making an M2.The car wasn't approved by the BMW board until just over a year ago.It wasn't like they had the car all planned when they decided to do the 2 series.There were also quite a few members on bimmerpost who were sure that BMW wouldn't even be making the M2.Will the car have everything that I would have wanted,probably not,but I will still be very excited to get the only BMW M car that I want.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

W/// Your the first to have a response to everything and if the comment is something you don't agree on you get all narky. You have voiced your opinion on this subject a number of times. I'm not here to debate you or anyone but just give my opinion and feedback and there are some it seems that agree with me. Why are you so defensive on this subject? If you love the way the M2 is shaping out that's great and you have the right to voice that. I'm giving my opinion so don't tell me to piss off out of here like I've got no right to be here and I've interrupted your little tea party.

Listen man, you and I obviously don't agree on this subject. That was just supposed to be a friendly poke, don't take it so damn personally. I have said more than 3 times directly to you that you are more than welcomed to your own opinion. Not sure where you saw that I said to piss off. Let's just be clear. I really couldn't care less what you think about the M2. Hell I even told you in your other thread you should consider an E46 M3 CSL didn't I?

Like I said already, good luck with your car search.

[Swiss Chris]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

No once again it is déjà vu.
Some of you allowed yourself to focus on the minor details whilst overlooking the areas that deemed the 1er M Coupe a fantastic car.
Now it is happening again.
Some of you missed out last time because of this. It would be foolish if you done the same again.

It will come when it comes. Not when you want it to come.

Dude it's not about stitching but about the support that the seats provide.

The 1M is a nice car (I owned two of them and enjoyed them a lot) but still a not finished product. The rear suspension of the ZCP M3 did not work so well on the shorter 1M and the standard 1 series seats were just a SHAME in such a car. It's hardly impossible to drive the car hard on the track or on mountain roads. Where "small ///M cars" owners love to drive their beauties.

Those real car enthusiasts are also those who love "details" such as carbone roof or power domes. Much more than M3-M4 owners do, IMO.

Lots of 1M are today hardly modified. Because lots of people who bought them did not want a cheap ///M, but a small rocket. And all the parts that these guys had to add after purchase... BMW could have sold them and make margins on them...

In Europe, pre-owned 1M cost today MORE than comparable E92 and people still choose the 1M.

Offer an "affordable" ///M is good. Offer what people/the market want is even better

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Swiss Chris

Dude it's not about stitching but about the support that the seats provide.

The 1M is a nice car (I owned two of them and enjoyed them a lot) but still a not finished product. The rear suspension of the ZCP M3 did not work so well on the shorter 1M and the standard 1 series seats were just a SHAME in such a car. It's hardly impossible to drive the car hard on the track or on mountain roads. Where "small ///M cars" owners love to drive their beauties.

Those real car enthusiasts are also those who love "details" such as carbone roof or power domes. Much more than M3-M4 owners do, IMO.

Lots of 1M are today hardly modified. Because lots of people who bought them did not want a cheap ///M, but a small rocket. And all the parts that these guys had to add after purchase... BMW could have sold them and make margins on them...

In Europe, pre-owned 1M cost today MORE than comparable E92 and people still choose the 1M.

Offer an "affordable" ///M is good. Offer what people/the market want is even better

+1

I believe you meant to type "heavily" and not "hardly" modified. The seats were the weakest part of the 1M. The 1M had more grip than the M3, yet it didn't have seats to compliment it. I'm hoping for a performance seat option.

[Glassjaw047]

Originally Posted by Swiss Chris

Dude it's not about stitching but about the support that the seats provide.

The 1M is a nice car (I owned two of them and enjoyed them a lot) but still a not finished product. The rear suspension of the ZCP M3 did not work so well on the shorter 1M and the standard 1 series seats were just a SHAME in such a car. It's hardly impossible to drive the car hard on the track or on mountain roads. Where "small ///M cars" owners love to drive their beauties.

Those real car enthusiasts are also those who love "details" such as carbone roof or power domes. Much more than M3-M4 owners do, IMO.

Lots of 1M are today hardly modified. Because lots of people who bought them did not want a cheap ///M, but a small rocket. And all the parts that these guys had to add after purchase... BMW could have sold them and make margins on them...

In Europe, pre-owned 1M cost today MORE than comparable E92 and people still choose the 1M.

Offer an "affordable" ///M is good. Offer what people/the market want is even better

[OG///M]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

+1

I believe you meant to type "heavily" and not "hardly" modified. The seats were the weakest part of the 1M. The 1M had more grip than the M3, yet it didn't have seats to compliment it. I'm hoping for a performance seat option.

That would be my main concern, will the seat be able to hold well, not the stitching. Here's to hoping there's more bolstering added or a second seat option. But again even if none of that happens, still not a reason to be disappointed.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

No once again it is déjà vu.
Some of you allowed yourself to focus on the minor details whilst overlooking the areas that deemed the 1er M Coupe a fantastic car.
Now it is happening again.
Some of you missed out last time because of this. It would be foolish if you done the same again.

It will come when it comes. Not when you want it to come.

[PackPride85]

Looking at the interior pics a little closer (for probably the 50th time)....it almost doesn't look like leather on the seats? Possibly alcantara?

[Baltic_M2]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Looking at the interior pics a little closer (for probably the 50th time)....it almost doesn't look like leather on the seats? Possibly alcantara?

No.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Find the flaw in the following syllogism:

• major: an ///M car without CF roof is "weak sauce"
• minor: the BMW GT6 Vision Concept, BMW 1M and BMW M2 base version feature no CF roof
• conclusio: the BMW GT6 Vision Concept, BMW 1M and BMW M2 base version are "weak sauce"

Hmm yes but the VGT looks like THAT. I think if there are quite a few little concessions, then it adds up to a weaker sauce, is maybe what people are getting at. Lets see though 3weeks to go?

Don't forget to add the M5 to that above list, to my knowledge no CF roof ever there, but I could be very wrong, nothing visible anyway to me.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

The issue is BMW is holding this car back instead of making it shine and be the standout drivers car. My point is why hold it back by not giving it the goodies like M seats and CF roof

The important M goodies are the suspension, brakes, rear subframe and LSD. I also hope that the feel of the manual transmission is similar to the F8x.

Originally Posted by Hazey82

Who cares about 1M that's done and dusted and was a parts bin car.

If the 1M didn't appeal to you, the M2 won't either.

Originally Posted by Hazey82

You can talk about you don't care about seats you can swap them out blah blah BUT the point is I should not have to when paying this money on a car that is supposed to be the "drivers car" pick over the entire M range. As was mentioned earlier other manufacturers can do it on less priced cars so BMW can do it! We are the M enthusiasts and BMW should listen and you lot need to wake up and realise your being sold a 3/4 baked M car!

The M2 has to play second fiddle to the M3/4.

[PackPride85]

I wonder how many threads/posts it will take for people to realize this car is not going be, nor was it designed to be, a mini m4 with less power.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I wonder how many threads/posts it will take for people to realize this car is not going be, nor was it designed to be, a mini m4 with less power.

I think it is a mini M4.

The M2 will take the most important bits from the M4 (suspension, brakes, LSD), and leave the extravagant stuff behind (lights in the seats, heads up display, carbon roof, carbon brakes, etc).

Of course the M2 has to be hampered with a N55, or it would kill the sales of the M4.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I wonder how many threads/posts it will take for people to realize this car is not going be, nor was it designed to be, a mini m4 with less power.

No, it is designed to be better looking (to me) than the M4, and it has the M4's suspension bits. It just doesn't have a S55. So, bottom line is, it is a more aesthetic looking and lighter car than the M4.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Reid

I think it is a mini M4.

The M2 will take the most important bits from the M4 (suspension, brakes, LSD), and leave the extravagant stuff behind (lights in the seats, heads up display, carbon roof, carbon brakes, etc).

Of course the M2 has to be hampered with a N55, or it would kill the sales of the M4.

I think it'll have a very different character to the M4 to be honest. If anything, I think it'll just be an M235i on a lot of steroids, which can only be a good thing considering how many good reviews that car has gotten, rather than a mini M4. A subtle different IMHO.

It's not going to have the pure pace of the M4 and the engine probably won't be as manic, but I truly do believe it'll be a more playful car, mostly because of its size.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by W///

I think it'll have a very different character to the M4 to be honest. If anything, I think it'll just be an M235i on a lot of steroids, which can only be a good thing considering how many good reviews that car has gotten, rather than a mini M4. A subtle different IMHO.

It's not going to have the pure pace of the M4 and the engine probably won't be as manic, but I truly do believe it'll be a more playful car, mostly because of its size.

The M4 appeals to me as a car that can play the role of capable track car and comfortable daily driver. The M2 should be more of the same, though it will be more of a momentum car.

In that way, it can serve the same purpose as a M4.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Reid

The M4 appeals to me as a car that can play the role of capable track car and comfortable daily driver. The M2 should be more of the same, though it will be more of a momentum car.

In that way, it can serve the same purpose as a M4.

Oh that part I definitely agree with. Dual purpose car with plenty of torque. I think the M2 will be more nimble than a handful at the limit like the M4. All theory of course.

You're already thinking of switching from an M4? I remember reading your car on that mass ED thread