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      02-10-2019, 11:54 PM   #23
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I may have missed something,but wheel studs are a must. The ridiculous factory lug nuts are a PITA and will not accommodate spacers. Every race car, including the BMW factory team converts to wheel studs. You can find a good set from one of the forum vendors or Tire Rack.
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      02-12-2019, 04:37 PM   #24
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What does everyone think of these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0788LBQ...f-998cfa7053ee

If I was using a torque wrench to loosen and tighten the lug nuts / wheel studs then surely these adaptors would be a good idea to convert my drill to a tool that will quickly screw / unscrew the nuts the rest of the way? It would save me spending loads of cash on an impact wrench also. Or am I missing something??
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      02-12-2019, 04:40 PM   #25
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I have the Ryobi 3 speed impact, and it works great on the M2 lugs so you'll be ok if you decide to go that route. I use setting 1 (lowest) for running the lugs back down, highest for taking them off.

Bit of a wall of text below here - you mentioned that you were new so I wanted to be as thorough for you as possible. Please don't be offended if I mention something you already know. Also some things can be done multiple ways, I'll just describe how I do it.

FYI, a torque wrench doesn't automatically stop at a given torque, You set it at a given ft-lbs value, then turn it with your hands like a ratchet. Once you've applied that amount of torque it gives an audible click. You can then release the pressure and go for a 2nd click (for some safety margin) but don't push too far past or you're appying too much torque. Always store the torque wrench at it's lowest setting as they are calibrated instruments.

You can run the bolts back down with the impact but seat them first by hand and twist in a few threads (maybe 1/3 of the way in). You don't want to hit them with the impact unless they're fully engaged otherwise you risk cross threading the bolt or the hole it goes into. I ruined a lug nut on an older car by not seating it correctly before blasting it with the impact.

The wheel hanger studs (M14x1.25) are essential. I literally stopped in the middle of my first wheel change to go order a pair. Otherwise its' a *huge* pain trying to balance the wheel on the little hub lip while getting those lug bolts in. You can also do a wheel stud conversion if that's how you'd like things.

Get yourself a pair of gloves (and/or a box of disposables for fluid changes). You don't have to get fancy, I did tons of work on my cars with a $5 pair from home depot until I to a $12 pair of Mechanix gloves.

Regarding safety, don't skimp out on this and IMHO you can't be too paranoid. If you don't already have some jacks and stands feel free to ask, search or private message My advice is to over-buy on the strength of the jack stands. Also always have a backup in place when the car is up (I keep the jack engaged on one of the lift points).

If you plan on doing more than just wheel changes grab a pair of safety glasses and at least put them on any time you're under the car. Especially if you track, you'll be surprised at how many nasty little pebbles, bits of dirt and grease, even metal shavings will be under there ready to fall directly into your eyes. I learned this lesson the hard way - if you're lucky like me you just get to spend an hour at the Dr's office having your left eye aggressively flushed out with saline while you ponder some life choices.

Good luck and I hope you love your new M2C as much as I love my M2!
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      02-12-2019, 04:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
What does everyone think of these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0788LBQ...f-998cfa7053ee

If I was using a torque wrench to loosen and tighten the lug nuts / wheel studs then surely these adaptors would be a good idea to convert my drill to a tool that will quickly screw / unscrew the nuts the rest of the way? It would save me spending loads of cash on an impact wrench also. Or am I missing something??
People use the impact wrench (remember, torque wrench is more like a fancy ratchet) because a drill or impact driver typically doesn't have the power to take lug nuts off. That said, there's no harm in trying especially if the adapters are cheap.
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      02-12-2019, 04:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefsubjugator View Post
I have the Ryobi 3 speed impact, and it works great on the M2 lugs so you'll be ok if you decide to go that route. I use setting 1 (lowest) for running the lugs back down, highest for taking them off.

Bit of a wall of text below here - you mentioned that you were new so I wanted to be as thorough for you as possible. Please don't be offended if I mention something you already know. Also some things can be done multiple ways, I'll just describe how I do it.

FYI, a torque wrench doesn't automatically stop at a given torque, You set it at a given ft-lbs value, then turn it with your hands like a ratchet. Once you've applied that amount of torque it gives an audible click. You can then release the pressure and go for a 2nd click (for some safety margin) but don't push too far past or you're appying too much torque. Always store the torque wrench at it's lowest setting as they are calibrated instruments.

You can run the bolts back down with the impact but seat them first by hand and twist in a few threads (maybe 1/3 of the way in). You don't want to hit them with the impact unless they're fully engaged otherwise you risk cross threading the bolt or the hole it goes into. I ruined a lug nut on an older car by not seating it correctly before blasting it with the impact.

The wheel hanger studs (M14x1.25) are essential. I literally stopped in the middle of my first wheel change to go order a pair. Otherwise its' a *huge* pain trying to balance the wheel on the little hub lip while getting those lug bolts in. You can also do a wheel stud conversion if that's how you'd like things.

Get yourself a pair of gloves (and/or a box of disposables for fluid changes). You don't have to get fancy, I did tons of work on my cars with a $5 pair from home depot until I to a $12 pair of Mechanix gloves.

Regarding safety, don't skimp out on this and IMHO you can't be too paranoid. If you don't already have some jacks and stands feel free to ask, search or private message My advice is to over-buy on the strength of the jack stands. Also always have a backup in place when the car is up (I keep the jack engaged on one of the lift points).

If you plan on doing more than just wheel changes grab a pair of safety glasses and at least put them on any time you're under the car. Especially if you track, you'll be surprised at how many nasty little pebbles, bits of dirt and grease, even metal shavings will be under there ready to fall directly into your eyes. I learned this lesson the hard way - if you're lucky like me you just get to spend an hour at the Dr's office having your left eye aggressively flushed out with saline while you ponder some life choices.

Good luck and I hope you love your new M2C as much as I love my M2!
Hi Chief,

Thanks for this detail. There is some really good advice there. A wheel hanger has been mentioned a few times now so that's on the list of things to purchase. I am planning on learning how to do oil changes so safety glasses are a good shout. I am buying a £150 low profile jack and I know I will need to buy some jack stands for when I start doing more work on the car.

The jack will do the job for the time being for wheel changes. When I do start using jack stands I need to research where I would place them without unnecessarily stressing the wrong points under the car (I'm following another thread on Bimmerpost about that).

Two mentioned the wheel studs conversion, but aside from the benefit of being able to add camber plates it wasn't clear what the other benefits of these are. Care to enlighten me?

I'm literally spending a few hours per night right now on my laptop researching the best tools to purchase from my long list. Everyone has been extremely helpful on this thread of mine
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      02-12-2019, 04:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefsubjugator View Post
People use the impact wrench (remember, torque wrench is more like a fancy ratchet) because a drill or impact driver typically doesn't have the power to take lug nuts off. That said, there's no harm in trying especially if the adapters are cheap.
I understood that about the difference between the impact wrench and impact driver. Lots of people are saying on here that they use a torque wrench to initially release the torque on the nut and then use a gun to unscrew it so I figured a drill with an adaptor would be able to unscrew the nut the rest of the way of the bolt. Like you say, it's cheap enough to give it a go.
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      02-12-2019, 05:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
I understood that about the difference between the impact wrench and impact driver. Lots of people are saying on here that they use a torque wrench to initially release the torque on the nut and then use a gun to unscrew it so I figured a drill with an adaptor would be able to unscrew the nut the rest of the way of the bolt. Like you say, it's cheap enough to give it a go.
If you're gonna break the bolts loose first while the cars on the ground then I think those will work fine for you - at that point they're pretty much loose.

I think if you want to use the torque wrench for breaking bolts I think you would be fine so long as the force you're exerting doesn't exceed the rating of the torque wrench. I was taught not to do this, I assume, because the torque wrench is more fragile and expensive than a breaker bar (or most ratchets even). There's more than one way to skin a cat though
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      02-12-2019, 05:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefsubjugator View Post
If you're gonna break the bolts loose first while the cars on the ground then I think those will work fine for you - at that point they're pretty much loose.

I think if you want to use the torque wrench for breaking bolts I think you would be fine so long as the force you're exerting doesn't exceed the rating of the torque wrench. I was taught not to do this, I assume, because the torque wrench is more fragile and expensive than a breaker bar (or most ratchets even). There's more than one way to skin a cat though
Thanks Chief.

So you would suggest using a breaker bar to break the bolt and then the torque wrench to tighten it back on to the correct torque setting? That would make sense.
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      02-12-2019, 08:14 PM   #31
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Using adapters from a hex-style impact driver to 1/2" sockets may work for simply speeding up the removal and fastening but I think you would definitely need to use a breaker bar to crack the wheel lugs loose first. I suspect most impact drivers or cordless drills wouldn't have enough power to break the lugs loose from 100+ lb/ft, an impact gun will have more power.

You don't really want to use a torque wrench for breaking the lugs loose, most instructions will advise against loosening with a torque wrench. Having a breaker bar would be very useful and they're usually pretty inexpensive.


The idea with going for a wheel stud conversion kit is to move from using the wheel lugs which screw into the wheel hub and instead have fixed studs from the hub which you then place the wheel onto and just use nuts. It basically means you have 5 wheel hangers on the hub at all times. Pretty much all race cars will use studs since it's much faster.

Two disadvantages of stud conversions, some shops won't touch them due to liability concerns and they can be difficult to replace. Wheel stud conversions need to be installed with everything nice and clean, then thread locker and precisely torqued. If they aren't installed correctly they can back out. And removing the studs after the thread locker has set can be difficult. With track use you do want to be replacing wheel studs and/or lugs as you're putting a lot of stress on them (high heat + more frequent loosening & tightening = more stretching). And if you have harsh weather with salt, etc then the materials may not have the same corrosion resistance as OEM wheel lugs.
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      02-13-2019, 12:24 AM   #32
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First off, to the OP:
Why the hell are you planning on £7-8k of aftermarket brakes if you've never done a track day?

Why are you planning on Cup2s if you've never done a track day?

Both of these are VERY VERY VERY BAD IDEAS.

Learn to drive the car as it comes before you start changing stuff. Changing stuff first is a massive waste of money, and it will also make it harder for you to learn.

One of the best ways to learn a car is to have less grip, not more. Race tires (which Cup2 basically are) hide a lot of flaws and make it very difficult for you to approach the limit of handling on a car safely.

I understand running a separate set of dedicated track day wheels, but I would strongly suggest not putting Cup2 on them until you've got double-digit count of HPDEs under your belt.

Same goes for the brakes... the only reason I can think you might want to do those brakes is because the M2C's stock brakes are big and make it impossible to fit 18" wheels. But even then... I would wait until you have more time under your belt before modding the car.

One of the only problems I have with this forum is that some people here seem to love to just throw mods on a car with basically fuck-all consideration to what those mods are actually doing for performance / handling / etc. The stock braking system will be fine for at least your first time out or two. If you are cooking the stock brakes, you are probably braking wrong (yes, there is a right and wrong way to brake at a track day).

Changing the fluid out for a higher temp fluid isn't a terrible idea, and maybe consider moving to a more aggressive pad compound if you start to experience fade... but most HPDEs are going to give you 20-30min lapping sessions, and unless you're doing something really stupid with the brakes, I would expect them to hold up fine... especially for a track day noob.

I've been to 4-5 HPDEs (with previous cars), and I'm sure as shit not changing anything on my (OG) M2 prior to my first HPDE with it.

As far as torque wrench + impact gun -- you've got the basic idea correct. Always hand-thread nuts or bolts before putting the ugga-dugga gun on them. Final tightening should be with the torque wrench so you know they are to spec. Wheel hangers are helpful, and having two can sometimes make life easier than just one. If you're truly getting deep into HPDEs, then a stud conversion is worth considering, but make sure to do your homework and buy one that (a) isn't shit and (b) can tolerate "weather" if you're also going to daily-drive the car (some stud kits are designed for race use and are meant to be replaced every few events and aren't designed to handle road salt or even much rain, so they will rust...)
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Last edited by ZPrime; 02-13-2019 at 12:35 AM..
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      02-13-2019, 02:42 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
First off, to the OP:
Why the hell are you planning on £7-8k of aftermarket brakes if you've never done a track day?

Why are you planning on Cup2s if you've never done a track day?

Both of these are VERY VERY VERY BAD IDEAS.

Learn to drive the car as it comes before you start changing stuff. Changing stuff first is a massive waste of money, and it will also make it harder for you to learn.

One of the best ways to learn a car is to have less grip, not more. Race tires (which Cup2 basically are) hide a lot of flaws and make it very difficult for you to approach the limit of handling on a car safely.

I understand running a separate set of dedicated track day wheels, but I would strongly suggest not putting Cup2 on them until you've got double-digit count of HPDEs under your belt.

Same goes for the brakes... the only reason I can think you might want to do those brakes is because the M2C's stock brakes are big and make it impossible to fit 18" wheels. But even then... I would wait until you have more time under your belt before modding the car.

One of the only problems I have with this forum is that some people here seem to love to just throw mods on a car with basically fuck-all consideration to what those mods are actually doing for performance / handling / etc. The stock braking system will be fine for at least your first time out or two. If you are cooking the stock brakes, you are probably braking wrong (yes, there is a right and wrong way to brake at a track day).

Changing the fluid out for a higher temp fluid isn't a terrible idea, and maybe consider moving to a more aggressive pad compound if you start to experience fade... but most HPDEs are going to give you 20-30min lapping sessions, and unless you're doing something really stupid with the brakes, I would expect them to hold up fine... especially for a track day noob.

I've been to 4-5 HPDEs (with previous cars), and I'm sure as shit not changing anything on my (OG) M2 prior to my first HPDE with it.

As far as torque wrench + impact gun -- you've got the basic idea correct. Always hand-thread nuts or bolts before putting the ugga-dugga gun on them. Final tightening should be with the torque wrench so you know they are to spec. Wheel hangers are helpful, and having two can sometimes make life easier than just one. If you're truly getting deep into HPDEs, then a stud conversion is worth considering, but make sure to do your homework and buy one that (a) isn't shit and (b) can tolerate "weather" if you're also going to daily-drive the car (some stud kits are designed for race use and are meant to be replaced every few events and aren't designed to handle road salt or even much rain, so they will rust...)
Hi ZPrime,

Thanks for the input and thoughts on the impact wrench / torque wrench subject. It's all really helpful advice.

As for the question on the Cup 2 tyres they came from a BMW dealership here in the UK as a package with the 763M wheels I wanted. The wheels were heavily discounted as the dealership buys them in bulk and effectively the 4 Cup 2s worked out at £250 for the set. It was really a no-brainer. I wasn't necessarily going to start doing track days on the Cup 2s. Your comment about learning the car with less grip has got me thinking, so perhaps I should swap the stock tyres (hopefully PSS / PS4S) on to the 763M wheels, start from there and use the Cup 2s at a later date.

As for the AP Racing brakes I completely agree this is a self-indulgent modification for a novice, although I have done 20+ laps at the Nurburgring in 2006 and some more recent track day "experienced" so I'm not a complete newbie to track days. As you said, the stock brakes are probably fine for the first few outings, but I really don't want to crack, discolour or unnecessarily stress the stock brakes. They are going in a box in near pristine condition should I ever sell the car or the brakes on their own in the near / distant future. And yes, I have been researching up on braking zones, etc. Driver61 on YouTube has been helpful and I will be getting tuition at the track. Bottom line with the brakes is that I will be doing a lot of track days and I want consistency in my braking throughout each track day. I don't see any issue with putting these on my car from the start. I'm also 39 so kind of big and grown up now so fully capable of doing my research and making my own decisions.

Trust me, I have been debating on whether to put coilovers on the car and remap it, etc, etc, but I am going to hold off on these for the time being as I am fully aware I should learn the cars' handling before putting in place mods like this
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      02-13-2019, 02:54 AM   #34
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do yourself a favor and get a stud kit, link below.

I have an impact and torque wrench. Get a nice impact and you wont need to use a breaker bar to get off your wheels.

Also it was mentioned before that someone uses a torque wrench to loosen wheels. Its not designed for it, i would use a breaker bar if your impact doesnt have the power to break the nuts/bolts loose

https://europeanautosource.com/macht...rsion-kit.html
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      02-13-2019, 03:51 AM   #35
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One problem with stud conversions is that they then normally change what size wrench / socket you need for the car.

IIRC our stock wheel bolts are 17mm heads. I've never seen an M14 stud kit that comes with a 17mm nut, because it couldn't fit over the M14 stud very well / no material would be left on the nut. So then you're changing to a 19mm socket. This on its own isn't a big deal, but many wheel designs can be tight around the holes, and a 17mm "protecta" socket fits... but a 19mm won't.

So then you're stuck trying to find a thin-wall 19mm socket (or pulling the protective sleeve off of yours) and hoping you don't bang up the wheels. Or, you then have to search for a weird nut (e.g. McGard, Gorilla) that uses a spline drive or some other funky "key" that will also act as a super-thin-wall socket.

All of this isn't hard per se, but it's an additional pain in the ass that people who have never dealt with a stud conversion would never know about until someone mentions it.
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      02-13-2019, 03:57 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
One problem with stud conversions is that they then normally change what size wrench / socket you need for the car.

IIRC our stock wheel bolts are 17mm heads. I've never seen an M14 stud kit that comes with a 17mm nut, because it couldn't fit over the M14 stud very well / no material would be left on the nut. So then you're changing to a 19mm socket. This on its own isn't a big deal, but many wheel designs can be tight around the holes, and a 17mm "protecta" socket fits... but a 19mm won't.

So then you're stuck trying to find a thin-wall 19mm socket (or pulling the protective sleeve off of yours) and hoping you don't bang up the wheels. Or, you then have to search for a weird nut (e.g. McGard, Gorilla) that uses a spline drive or some other funky "key" that will also act as a super-thin-wall socket.

All of this isn't hard per se, but it's an additional pain in the ass that people who have never dealt with a stud conversion would never know about until someone mentions it.
I purchased this kit last night with the 17mm socket with a long protective sleeve to prevent damage to the alloys:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Based on what you said I think I might now swap the stock rubber that comes with the car to the 763m wheels and use those on track days to start.

Think I will leave the stud conversion for now.
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