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      02-04-2019, 12:48 PM   #1
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Torque wrench or impact wrench for track days?

Evening all,

I get my M2 Comp on 1st March and after the 1200 run-in period coupled with a few mods I will be tracking my car. I am a bit of novice and so I just wanted to ask a few simple questions about wrenches and torque levels to make sure I understand the basics and buy the right equipment.

As I am going to be doing track days and swapping out wheels fairly regularly I want to be able to do this quickly and correctly. My basic understanding from initial research is that for speed you might use the impact wrench to unscrew the lug nuts (I know, that's obvious) and then, when you put the new wheels back on, use the impact wrench again on a slower speed to put the nut in most of the way (for convenience) and then use a torque wrench to complete screwing it in at the right level of torque. Remember, I did say I am a novice So, my questions:

1. Am I in any way right about my thoughts above?
2. Can impact wrenches also have adjustable torque settings? (I know torque wrenches do)
3. What is the required torque setting for wheels on the M2 Comp? and,
4. Do different wheels require different torque? (I will have 763m and 788m wheels)
5. What size adaptor would I need on the torque / impact wrench to fit the lug nuts, or does an adaptor generally come with the car? Remember....novice....

I figure if I bought an impact wrench it would be good to have a torque wrench spare anyway.

Aside from these questions any general advice around this subject will be much appreciated

Cheers,

Karl
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      02-04-2019, 01:12 PM   #2
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I would say your thinking is spot on. I use my torque wrench loosens the nuts and then the impact wrenches to take them off; this saves a lot of time. Similarly, I'll use the impact wrench to put the nuts on and tighten with the wrench. I dont use the torque wrench to tighten it for fear of stripping the bolt. Of course, if you dont have an impact wrench, you can do this by hand, but the impact wrench makes things easier and faster.

Your car really should be 100% before you get on the track so you do t have to deal with this instead of focusing on your next session. If in doubt about your pads or brake fluid, highly recommend taking care of it before you get to your track event.
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      02-04-2019, 01:16 PM   #3
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1. Yes impact gun for loosening make sure you use one rated at a high enough torque. I use a Dewalt 20v Max XR impact driver (1/2") at the shop and it can take lugs of anything. For final toruqe it is best to use torque wrench so you dont under or over torque.
2) yes they can be adjustable but not per ft/lb. The dewalt listed is 3 way adjustable. What you would want is to look at torque sticks, they limit how much an impact gun can do.
3) sorry unaware, i just like to look at other forums.
4) no the torque will be the same for both wheels, varies for vehicles not wheels.
5) again not sure if the M2C is different but i believe BMW standard is 17mm but ill let someone else confirm. Regardless make sure you get an impact socket. they are usually a matte black not shiny or chrome
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      02-04-2019, 01:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landapanda View Post
I think your thinking is spot on. I use my torque wrench loosens the nuts and then the impact wrenches to take them off; this saves a lot of time. Similarly, I'll use the impact wrench to put the nuts on and tighten with the wrench. I dont use the torque wrench to tighten it for fear of stripping the bolt. Of course, if you dont have an impact wrench, you can do this by hand, but the impact wrench makes things easier and faster.

Preferably though, your car is 100% before you get on the track so you do t have to deal with this instead of focusing on your next session. If in doubt about your pads or brake fluid, highly recommend taking care of it before you get to your track event.
Thanks for this. I'm getting the AP Racing BBKs (front and rear) put on to the car soon after I get it and I will make sure I burnish / bed in both the DS2500 for street and DS1.11s for track. I'm in the process of learning about brake fluid also and want to be able to change this myself at some point. YouTube videos are helpful.
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      02-04-2019, 01:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 519.E82 View Post
1. Yes impact gun for loosening make sure you use one rated at a high enough torque. I use a Dewalt 20v Max XR impact driver (1/2") at the shop and it can take lugs of anything. For final toruqe it is best to use torque wrench so you dont under or over torque.
2) yes they can be adjustable but not per ft/lb. The dewalt listed is 3 way adjustable. What you would want is to look at torque sticks, they limit how much an impact gun can do.
3) sorry unaware, i just like to look at other forums.
4) no the torque will be the same for both wheels, varies for vehicles not wheels.
5) again not sure if the M2C is different but i believe BMW standard is 17mm but ill let someone else confirm. Regardless make sure you get an impact socket. they are usually a matte black not shiny or chrome
Thanks for this. Mucho gracias!

Any advice on the minimum Nm of torque required? I will check out the De Walt you have.
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      02-04-2019, 04:12 PM   #6
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To save some money, check out the earthquake brand battery impact wrenches from harbor freight. Cheaper than all the others and just as good if not better. There's plenty of YouTube reviews with positive reviews. I recommend the 1/2 in drive one and have had no issues with mine.

I torque mine to 100 Lb-Ft using a torque wrench
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      02-04-2019, 04:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasypeanut View Post
To save some money, check out the earthquake brand battery impact wrenches from harbor freight. Cheaper than all the others and just as good if not better. There's plenty of YouTube reviews with positive reviews. I recommend the 1/2 in drive one and have had no issues with mine.

I torque mine to 100 Lb-Ft using a torque wrench
Thanks GP. I'll check it out 👍🏻
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      02-04-2019, 04:39 PM   #8
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Get proper lug nut sockets with protective sleeves. Here's an example:

Lug Nut Socket Set, Professional Grade, Manufactured Using Quality Chromoly Steel, 5-piece Thin Wall Impact Sockets, Durable Lug Nut Remover by Shankly https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MT39235..._e7lwCb75NE04D
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      02-04-2019, 06:10 PM   #9
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I use a breaker bar to loosen everything first. I guess an impact can do the job but I just try to be on the conservative side when it comes to stressing the studs. Impact gun to remove / tighten and tourque wrench to tighten.

Also, if you are running longer studs, make sure the lug nut sockets are long enough. Have had that issue with a nice socket with protective sleeve.
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      02-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #10
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I also usually use a breaker bar before lifting the car (just break them free, 1/4 to 1/2 turn is plenty). Then I use my Milwaukee 18V cordless impact gun, for wheels you shouldn't really need a super powerful one since we shouldn't see much more than 100 lbs/ft.

A wheel hanger is nice to have, you basically replace one lug with the hanger which then holds the wheel in-place until you lift it off. Then the same for putting it back on, the hanger will keep the wheel safely on the hub while you get the lugs back in place. You usually want to start the lugs by hand (I'm usually using a short extension + 17mm wheel impact socket), starting with an impact gun isn't recommended since you could cross-thread more easily. I usually tighten with the impact gun until it starts impacting then stop, drop the car and torque using the torque wrench.

On occasion I forget to break the lugs free before lifting with my QuickJack and that's when the impact gun is much nicer, it can often break them free without needing to lower the car again.

Also, remember to take your torque wrench to the track with you, you'll want to recheck torques after the car has cooled. The high heat and abuse of the track can cause things to loosen (but always wait until things have cooled).

You definitely don't need an impact gun but if you're tracking somewhat frequently then it's certainly nice to have since you'll be swapping brake pads for most events and probably wheels and tires. I think it was really worth spending the money on impact gun, pressure brake bleeder & QuickJack, I use all 3 a lot with 5+ track days or weekends on my M2 and then also can use them for friends & family.
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      02-05-2019, 01:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tux2005 View Post
I also usually use a breaker bar before lifting the car (just break them free, 1/4 to 1/2 turn is plenty). Then I use my Milwaukee 18V cordless impact gun, for wheels you shouldn't really need a super powerful one since we shouldn't see much more than 100 lbs/ft.

A wheel hanger is nice to have, you basically replace one lug with the hanger which then holds the wheel in-place until you lift it off. Then the same for putting it back on, the hanger will keep the wheel safely on the hub while you get the lugs back in place. You usually want to start the lugs by hand (I'm usually using a short extension + 17mm wheel impact socket), starting with an impact gun isn't recommended since you could cross-thread more easily. I usually tighten with the impact gun until it starts impacting then stop, drop the car and torque using the torque wrench.

On occasion I forget to break the lugs free before lifting with my QuickJack and that's when the impact gun is much nicer, it can often break them free without needing to lower the car again.

Also, remember to take your torque wrench to the track with you, you'll want to recheck torques after the car has cooled. The high heat and abuse of the track can cause things to loosen (but always wait until things have cooled).

You definitely don't need an impact gun but if you're tracking somewhat frequently then it's certainly nice to have since you'll be swapping brake pads for most events and probably wheels and tires. I think it was really worth spending the money on impact gun, pressure brake bleeder & QuickJack, I use all 3 a lot with 5+ track days or weekends on my M2 and then also can use them for friends & family.
Thanks for this.

I like the idea of the wheel hanger. I wasn't aware of that.

The pressure brake bleeder is something I need to learn more about. Will I need a specific adaptor for my AP Racing calipers?

I just googled Quickjack - it looks like a great bit of kit, but I don't think i can justify circa £1,000 on a jack just yet.
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      02-05-2019, 02:08 AM   #12
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Definitely a good idea like others said. It makes your tire changes or brake service way faster. I use a tq wrench to crack them loose and a Bosch 18V impact driver to loosen and tighten. This particular one has a tq rating of 95lb-ft so then I finish it off with a torque wrench. It has a built in light, and one charge lasts me all season. Probably the best $80 I’ve ever spent.
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      02-05-2019, 02:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Definitely a good idea like others said. It makes your tire changes or brake service way faster. I use a tq wrench to crack them loose and a Bosch 18V impact driver to loosen and tighten. This particular one has a tq rating of 95lb-ft so then I finish it off with a torque wrench. It has a built in light, and one charge lasts me all season. Probably the best $80 I’ve ever spent.
Yeah, I've seen the ones with the lights on them. I have a Ryobi drill so I might look at a Ryobi branded impact driver / wrench so I can swap the existing battery over and save some cash on buying a new one.
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      02-05-2019, 07:41 AM   #14
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I prefer to break them loose while the car is on the ground using a 17” breaker bar. Then jack, use a gun to do the repetitive turning to take bolts off, swap wheel, hand start the threads on each bolt, gun to snug bolts, torque wrench to torque them down.
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      02-05-2019, 08:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
Thanks for this. Mucho gracias!

Any advice on the minimum Nm of torque required? I will check out the De Walt you have.
M14 sized wheel bolts and 140nm [~ 105lbft in old money] torque

I use hand tools only if swapping wheels as seen too many crossed threaded or stripped threads as a result kak handed impact drivers users.

1 or 2 sleeved 17mm 1/2" sockets;
OE bmw 140Nm fixed torque wrench - oem part no 71126769683,
1/2" drive breaker bar;
1/2" drive crank handle.
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      02-05-2019, 08:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
Thanks for this. Mucho gracias!

Any advice on the minimum Nm of torque required? I will check out the De Walt you have.
M14 sized wheel bolts and 140nm [~ 105lbft in old money] torque

I use hand tools only if swapping wheels as seen too many crossed threaded or stripped threads as a result kak handed impact drivers users.

1 or 2 sleeved 17mm 1/2" sockets;
OE bmw 140Nm fixed torque wrench - oem part no 71126769683,
1/2" drive breaker bar;
1/2" drive crank handle.
Cheers BP!
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      02-05-2019, 10:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
Thanks for this.

I like the idea of the wheel hanger. I wasn't aware of that.

The pressure brake bleeder is something I need to learn more about. Will I need a specific adaptor for my AP Racing calipers?

I just googled Quickjack - it looks like a great bit of kit, but I don't think i can justify circa £1,000 on a jack just yet.
The Motive pressure bleeder I have attaches to the fluid reservoir and pushes the fluid out the lines, at the caliper end you just need some clear flexible hose into whatever container you'll use for the old fluid. The clear hose would depend on the bleeder valves on the calipers, I've got 2 different hoses I use for my M2, an E36 323, E39 530, I just bought the hoses at an auto parts store they're super cheap.

I got my wheel hangers off ebay, they're pretty inexpensive.
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      02-10-2019, 01:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasypeanut View Post
To save some money, check out the earthquake brand battery impact wrenches from harbor freight. Cheaper than all the others and just as good if not better. There's plenty of YouTube reviews with positive reviews. I recommend the 1/2 in drive one and have had no issues with mine.

I torque mine to 100 Lb-Ft using a torque wrench
GP,
I forgot to ask you before - what do you mean when you are referring to a 1/2 inch drive?
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      02-10-2019, 01:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monochrom3 View Post
Get proper lug nut sockets with protective sleeves. Here's an example:

Lug Nut Socket Set, Professional Grade, Manufactured Using Quality Chromoly Steel, 5-piece Thin Wall Impact Sockets, Durable Lug Nut Remover by Shankly https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MT39235..._e7lwCb75NE04D
If the lugs on the BMW are 17mm why would I need a set of five with other diameters? Just in case I need them for another car? Thanks for the note on the protective sleeves

Thanks.
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Last edited by Karlosm2c; 02-10-2019 at 01:32 PM..
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      02-10-2019, 01:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tux2005 View Post
A wheel hanger is nice to have, you basically replace one lug with the hanger which then holds the wheel in-place until you lift it off. Then the same for putting it back on, the hanger will keep the wheel safely on the hub while you get the lugs back in place.
Tux,
I've been doing some research on the wheel hanger; does it have to be a M12 x 1.5 or an M14 x 1/25? Is that what Bee Pee was referring to earlier with M14?
Thanks
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      02-10-2019, 03:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tux2005 View Post
A wheel hanger is nice to have, you basically replace one lug with the hanger which then holds the wheel in-place until you lift it off. Then the same for putting it back on, the hanger will keep the wheel safely on the hub while you get the lugs back in place.
Tux,
I've been doing some research on the wheel hanger; does it have to be a M12 x 1.5 or an M14 x 1/25? Is that what Bee Pee was referring to earlier with M14?
Thanks
Yes correct M14 = 14mm wheel bolt diameter.
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      02-10-2019, 10:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlosm2c View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by monochrom3 View Post
Get proper lug nut sockets with protective sleeves. Here's an example:

Lug Nut Socket Set, Professional Grade, Manufactured Using Quality Chromoly Steel, 5-piece Thin Wall Impact Sockets, Durable Lug Nut Remover by Shankly https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MT39235..._e7lwCb75NE04D
If the lugs on the BMW are 17mm why would I need a set of five with other diameters? Just in case I need them for another car? Thanks for the note on the protective sleeves

Thanks.
Right you wouldn't need a set unless you have other cars. That was just an example. You can certainly get single size
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