[5.M0NSTER]

Hey guys, I could use your advice here.

I'm coming from 5 years of road racing a Mustang. I started in Sport mode which had expanded thresholds for Traction Control and Stability Control, but after 1 season I went to full system off. This was ideal for learning the car behavior and managing oversteer/understeer/wheel slip myself. It really helped me grow as a driver.

What mode do you recommend in the M2 for track use? I think I'll start in Sport +, but after a few sessions I'd like the Sport + Drivertrain/Chassis settings (which already has Stability Control disabled) but with disabled Traction Control. So really I want Sport + with ABS only.

Is that possible? When I was playing around with it it seems once you're in Sport or Sport+ it re-sets it back to Normal mode.

[ZM2]

Definitely don’t use Sport+. The throttle, steering, and shifting are all way too touchy and harsh for the track. Sport+ is fun on the street, terrible on track.

Sounds like you’re OK with some slip and you’ll find the M2 is super easy to control at the limit, so I would skip Comfort or Sport mode (unless it’s cold & rainy) and go directly to Traction (or MDM) mode. That’s a single press of the TC off button, which gives quite a bit of slip and Comfort style steering, throttle, and shifting inputs for super smooth track time.

Traction mode keeps the safeties on at the limit and will save you if you go too far, but not toooo far!

Once you get some time in the car, you’ll find Traction mode is too intrusive. You have two options: code more slip into the car or go TC full off.

The good news is you have a German M2, which is already coded with what we call Euro MDM. So, it gives you more slip in Traction mode than US models, and we have to code that into ours. You can code M4 GTS slip into the car, but I found that too intrusive, as well, once you know the car. I would skip coding and jump from Traction mode to DSC off.

A long press (>10sec) gets you full DSC off, with no safeties, and Sport style (not Sport+ style!) throttle, steering, and shifting. The car is so much fun to slide at the limit with DSC off, you’ll find yourself sometimes sacrificing lap times for more sliding fun.

Of note, the torque vectoring differential still works in all modes, so you’ll still feel that kicking in to give maximum traction when throttling out of corners. Some guys confuse this thinking some TC is still on with DSC off, but it’s just the differential doing its job. And, ABS remains on no matter what mode you’re in.

The best bit of advice I can give is to use the Traction to DSC Off process differently for each track. You first have to learn the track to start pushing the limits, and once you push the limits, you’ll find all those different bumps and surface changes that you didn’t notice before that can catch you out. Maximize your speed at each track in Traction mode until you feel it holding you back. Then, DSC off for a few more tenths and to really learn the car.

[PLF69]

MDM (Traction) or DSC Off

[Uncledanny6]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Definitely don't use Sport+. The throttle, steering, and shifting are all way too touchy and harsh for the track. Sport+ is fun on the street, terrible on track.

Sounds like you're OK with some slip and you'll find the M2 is super easy to control at the limit, so I would skip Comfort or Sport mode (unless it's cold & rainy) and go directly to Traction (or MDM) mode. That's a single press of the TC off button, which gives quite a bit of slip and Comfort style steering, throttle, and shifting inputs for super smooth track time.

Traction mode keeps the safeties on at the limit and will save you if you go too far, but not toooo far!

Once you get some time in the car, you'll find Traction mode is too intrusive. You have two options: code more slip into the car or go TC full off.

The good news is you have a German M2, which is already coded with what we call Euro MDM. So, it gives you more slip in Traction mode than US models, and we have to code that into ours. You can code M4 GTS slip into the car, but I found that too intrusive, as well, once you know the car. I would skip coding and jump from Traction mode to DSC off.

A long press (>10sec) gets you full DSC off, with no safeties, and Sport style (not Sport+ style!) throttle, steering, and shifting. The car is so much fun to slide at the limit with DSC off, you'll find yourself sometimes sacrificing lap times for more sliding fun.

Of note, the torque vectoring differential still works in all modes, so you'll still feel that kicking in to give maximum traction when throttling out of corners. Some guys confuse this thinking some TC is still on with DSC off, but it's just the differential doing it's job. And, ABS remains on no matter what mode you're in.

The best bit of advice I can give is to use the Traction to DSC Off process differently for each track. You first have to learn the track to start pushing the limits, and once you push the limits, you'll find all those different bumps and surface changes that you didn't notice before that can catch you out. Maximize your speed at each track in Traction mode until you feel it holding you back. Then, DSC off for a few more tenths and to really learn the car.

Wow , Someone who writes professionally and drives cars passionately- seriously, thanks for your one man fix of the Driving manual . You must be a technical writer of some sort - and a patient man

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by Uncledanny6

Wow , Someone who writes professionally and drives cars passionately- seriously, thanks for your one man fix of the Driving manual . You must be a technical writer of some sort - and a patient man

Hah, appreciate that.

I just love driving my M2 on track, and as an Engineer/MBA I spend most of my time communicating & explaining things bn technical & biz folks.

[Uncledanny6]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hah, appreciate that.

I just love driving my M2 on track, and as an Engineer/MBA I spend most of my time communicating & explaining things bn technical & biz folks.

Excellent ! Many moons ago, as a Naval Aviator , I would always ask the Engineering guys to tailor their presentations as if their audience was a Psych major . Which I was .

[5.M0NSTER]

Thanks for the details ZM2,

I am also an engineer, with a B.S. In Computer Engineering and a M.S. In Engineering Management. The second one is now my job description, but I came up the ranks in in the first one. Auto Industry, development of chassis control systems, namely ABS, TCS and Stability Control Software Algorithms.

I had to master Vehicle Dynamics to be able to design algorithms which control vehicle dynamics, and this way my gateway into road racing. After lots of training, and spending lots of time in lots of cool cars on lots of cool tracks I decided to do it on my own time in my own car with setup of my own choosing.

So yes, I'm quite comfortable with slip in general, and wide variety of body slip angles in particular.

With that said, thank you for the note about Sport + throttle pedal mapping. I absolutely love it on the street, but I see what you mean about it being potentially too aggressive. Rolling onto it is a bit of a challenge, it seems more digital than one would desire at times.

I would normally agree that keeping VDC on at least or TCS/VDCis a good idea. I may just to see where on the track the systems intervene. But in the Mustang (which if you do nothing tries to get you more sideways and sometimes tries to kill you) the systems I work on got in my way early, and quickly. So off they went. I read that the M2 is more linear, progressive, and that if tends to straighten itself out. If that is the case I need no TCS or Stability control at all. My hooning around on the streets tells me this is how it is also, but I have not yet been at or past the limit.

But the smart thing to do is try it first, and build up my speed slowly. So first session or two I will do just that. If my gut feel matches my expectations I will switch all but ABS off. I just wish there was a choice to keep the Sport or Sport + characteristics and enable/disable Traction and Stability on command. I can always kill Stability with Yaw Rate or Steering Angle Sensor lines or fuses, but I don't want to have to.

[ZM2]

Nice. Knowing the math of what's going on certainly helps your brain (and subconscious) make the right decisions, and no doubt shortcutted your learning!

Sounds like you'll do what I did. Start in Traction mode, find the limits of the car and how it behaves very quickly, and turn DSC off on the 1st day. The M2 is so easy to drive at the limit, you'll get comfortable with it very quickly.

As for the specific throttle/steering/shifting mapping: they're all Comfort mode style in Traction mode (altho, it will hold gears longer than Comfort), and Sport style with DSC off. I'd also prefer to be able to tailor this, as I like Comfort style responses for more finite control at the limit, but I run DSC off, so I only get Sport style responses.

To be able to tailor it, you need an M2C or M3/4. I have not seen a coding solution to this, yet.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Uncledanny6

Excellent ! Many moons ago, as a Naval Aviator , I would always ask the Engineering guys to tailor their presentations as if their audience was a Psych major . Which I was .

Being a Naval Aviator was always my dream, but my health did not allow it to fruition. So instead I decided to pilot a car around a racetrack. Mad respect for you sir.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Nice. Knowing the math of what's going on certainly helps your brain (and subconscious) make the right decisions, and no doubt shortcutted your learning!

Sounds like you'll do what I did. Start in Traction mode, find the limits of the car and how it behaves very quickly, and turn DSC off on the 1st day. The M2 is so easy to drive at the limit, you'll get comfortable with it very quickly.

As for the specific throttle/steering/shifting mapping: they're all Comfort mode style in Traction mode (altho, it will hold gears longer than Comfort), and Sport style with DSC off. I'd also prefer to be able to tailor this, as I like Comfort style responses for more finite control at the limit, but I run DSC off, so I only get Sport style responses.

To be able to tailor it, you need an M2C or M3/4. I have not seen a coding solution to this, yet.

Developing that "feel" takes time, patience, practice and money! But some of us are willing to pay the price!

It's a very unfortunate trend in the industry to automate more and allow less control to the driver. These days the things I work on are more in line with no human driver and less in line with driver satisfaction or even presence. It's a shame. It will save lives. Many lives. But it is a shame when it comes to people who actually know or want to learn how to truly drive. Even track modes of most major sports car companies have systems designed to not let you get too close to the edge. I blame lawyers.

But at the same time the balance and handling of the M2 is a breath of fresh air. Someone gave a shit when they designed, financed, and tuned this car. and to that person or those persons.

There are things I would change, but over all

[greasypeanut]

I am not an engineer. I drive on track with traction control off. I am a part of the so called "intermediate" driver groups and don't want the car to help me at all get better times.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by greasypeanut

I am not an engineer. I drive on track with traction control off. I am a part of the so called "intermediate" driver groups and don't want the car to help me at all get better times.

Senna!

[GasBurnlife(landapanda)]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Senna!

Wet - All systems on
Dry - Traction mode (one press of the Traction button)

[Twt]

Originally Posted by landapanda

Wet - All systems on
Dry - Traction mode (one press of the Traction button)

Great idea with a 60k car, but it is a blast in the rain with nannies off. At the M school skidpad I believe they run the M3 with DSC off . We just finished a two day endurance race at Barber in a monsoon driving a Miata without any safety systems ,including ABS ,and it was a great car control lesson....after a few spins!!!

[GasBurnlife(landapanda)]

Originally Posted by Twt

Great idea with a 60k car, but it is a blast in the rain with nannies off. At the M school skidpad I believe they run the M3 with DSC off . We just finished a two day endurance race at Barber in a monsoon driving a Miata without any safety systems ,including ABS ,and it was a great car control lesson....after a few spins!!!

If you don't turn DSC off on the skid pad, you are not going to be able to get sideways. Skid pad = DSC off. Absolutely.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by greasypeanut

I am not an engineer. I drive on track with traction control off. I am a part of the so called "intermediate" driver groups and don't want the car to help me at all get better times.

Originally Posted by landapanda

Wet - All systems on
Dry - Traction mode (one press of the Traction button)

I plan to do my first morning on track with TCS off but DSC on, but that's it. After that I don't want the car to do anything for me. All driver from that point on

Originally Posted by Twt

Great idea with a 60k car, but it is a blast in the rain with nannies off. At the M school skidpad I believe they run the M3 with DSC off . We just finished a two day endurance race at Barber in a monsoon driving a Miata without any safety systems ,including ABS ,and it was a great car control lesson....after a few spins!!!

My point exactly. Only way to learn the car and develop the reflexes and muscle memory as a driver.

In the Mustang I would run either Intermediate or Advanced group, depending on safety equipment and tire requirements of the clubs I ran with. But always full system off after learning the track.
I have some videos of huge slides and good saves. Just the right amplitude, fact input at a high rate of speed makes all the difference.

And in general I would say that if you're worried about destroying your car get track insurance. If the fear of crashing is always in the back of your mind it will hold back your development, not to mention your lap times.

Track insurance is $350 or so for a weekend (and there is a 10% deductible), and walking away from $5k is a lot easier than walking away from $50k.

[Twt]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I plan to do my first morning on track with TCS off but DSC on, but that's it. After that I don't want the car to do anything for me. All driver from that point on




My point exactly. Only way to learn the car and develop the reflexes and muscle memory as a driver.

In the Mustang I would run either Intermediate or Advanced group, depending on safety equipment and tire requirements of the clubs I ran with. But always full system off after learning the track.
I have some videos of huge slides and good saves. Just the right amplitude, fact input at a high rate of speed makes all the difference.

And in general I would say that if you're worried about destroying your car get track insurance. If the fear of crashing is always in the back of your mind it will hold back your development, not to mention your lap times.

Track insurance is $350 or so for a weekend (and there is a 10% deductible), and walking away from $5k is a lot easier than walking away from $50k.

[5.M0NSTER]

Sweet! He caught it, and that is a good track day and a teachable moment.

His line looked to tight before the apex, and his counter steer was too slow which is why he developed such a large body slip angle.

[5.M0NSTER]

Bit of a long video from my Mustang days. Didn't want to re-edit it. Lots of little corrections throughout. But at the end ~5:50 biiiig slide

This is the level of car control I want with the M2. But to get there I have to have DSC and TCS full off.

[urke85]

Can you give me factory settings for mdm mode (button M2)
I worked something and i deleted it, and i know when we were on trackday i liked that factory setting.
Thanks

[Proctor750]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Bit of a long video from my Mustang days. Didn't want to re-edit it. Lots of little corrections throughout. But at the end ~5:50 biiiig slide

This is the level of car control I want with the M2. But to get there I have to have DSC and TCS full off.

That is one serious CD holster

[5.M0NSTER]

Great for iron pumpin’ bro. And it now resides in my M2! I ripped most of it to the hard drive but who’s got time...