[specka]

I've now got the FMIC, Charge Pipes, Sportscat and Intake and am looking to add a BM3 tune. I plan to track monthly from March, from reading above comment am I unwise to run a stage 2 map?
That will be quite disappointing of it is the case.

[ecitizen]

I'm running stage 2 now with all the bolt ons (minus turbo upgrade) and it runs great. Power feels good and I don't sense any issues yet.

[Dabozo]

Originally Posted by specka

I've now got the FMIC, Charge Pipes, Sportscat and Intake and am looking to add a BM3 tune. I plan to track monthly from March, from reading above comment am I unwise to run a stage 2 map?
That will be quite disappointing of it is the case.

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

I know that if you don't have access to 'good' gas, your return on investment may not be great but with your bolt ones, youre good to go with stg2...especially with good fuel.

[specka]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

I know that if you don't have access to 'good' gas, your return on investment may not be great but with your bolt ones, youre good to go with stg2...especially with good fuel.

It was based on this quote from Sean a page or so back, and the fact I'll be tracking regularly...

"M2 stock turbo is not capable of handling stage two tune (or any tune with 16+psi up top) on track, whatever bolt-ons you have.

At these boost level up top, the poor factory snail is just searing the air charging and exhaust components to gain some 10-20whp (over STG1 tune) that lasts a short period of time. which most people are happy seeing on dyno."

[Dabozo]

Well Sean does know his stuff so I would listen to him before myself lol.
I missed the tracking part...was thinking just for street.
But it is true, without a bigger turbo, our cars are pretty much maxed out already straight from factory. Relatively small gains (vs an s55) with any tune.
That being said, I still plan on doing same as you (up to stg2)

[SeanWRT]

This is what I really mean:

There're different levels of tune.

1) Maxed out for dyno run, drag race, and a single glorious pull of 100-200kph/60-130mph under ideal condition.
10 times out of 10, methanol, ethanol, race gas or all of them are required for highest octane, so turbo can flow to its limit.
Example:
STG2 turbo, 22-25psi, 500+whp.
STG1/stock turbo, 18-20psi, 420-440whp.

2) Repeatable highest power when cool, but struggle when hot. Turbo makes much heat up top.
Example:
FBO STG2 hybrid turbo, 19+psi, 440-450whp, 94-95OCT required.
FBO STG1 hybrid turbo, 17+psi, 400-410whp
FBO stock turbo STG2 tune, 16-17psi, 370-390whp.
Stock turbo STG1 tune, 15-16psi, 360-370whp.

3) Consistent power, can endure many back to back high load pulls on hot days. It cools as fast as heat builds up. Can do track most of time. Close to stock reliability.
Example:
FBO STG2 hybrid turbo, 17+psi, 420-430whp
FBO STG1 hybrid turbo STG2 tune, 16+psi, 380-390whp.
FBO stock turbo STG1 tune, 15-16psi, 360-370whp.

4) Track tune
Whatever boost the hardware can handle under high intake temp, with richer AFR and relatively high ignition target for better endurance.

Most of people are really somewhere in between #1 and #2 without being fully aware. And that's really where all the good numbers come from.

[ZM2]

Thanks SeanWRT

Question: if you run the tune that maximizes power for the dyno or cool days, is the DME responsive enough to adjust the fuel & timing for that map on hot track days as IATs go up?

Or, is it better to switch to a lower boost target map for hot track days?

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Thanks SeanWRT

Question: if you run the tune that maximizes power for the dyno or cool days, is the DME responsive enough to adjust the fuel & timing for that map on hot track days as IATs go up?

Or, is it better to switch to a lower boost target map for hot track days?

It's fundamentally programmed by BMW that you can't tell DME to be powerful when cool and weak when hot. It will try to make same intended torque no matter what. There're ways in the tuning to restrict load to high IAT (I do have one in my map), but the best way is to have less boost/load globally that our car can handle across temp band.

DME will trigger all kinds of fail safe when it see fails, but that'd cost you more power than a less aggressive map in the first place. And we don't want to see fails.

[ronin1k]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

It's fundamentally programmed by BMW that you can't tell DME to be powerful when cool and weak when hot. It will try to make same intended torque no matter what. There're ways in the tuning to restrict load to high IAT (I do have one in my map), but the best way to have less boost/load globally that our car can handle across temp band.

DME will trigger all kinds of fail safe when it see fails, but that'd cost you more power than a less aggressive map in the first place. And we don't want to see fails.

that totally makes sense, I would assume BMW have programmed those safety features to retard performance by far in case of overloading situations, so overall gains must be higher when not hitting threshold

since I'm not planning to upgrade stock turbo,, my choice is stage 1 tune and FBO

[MZWIE]

Stock + STAGE2 = minimum gains.

[ecitizen]

An update to my original post. I had the Wagner EVO II Comp IC installed along with AA charge pipe to round out my Fabspeed sport cat and moved to Stage 2, 91 Octane. In summary, it's more of the power I had hoped for in Stage 1 so worth it. Pulls harder and I can hear the turbo spool up across all driving modes. As expected, most of the power is felt in the low to mid-range with a little more at the top end but I'm not sure there's much more to get out of the top end on this motor. Burbles are really strong in Sport and Sport+ but essentially go away in Comfort which is great since I can toggle down the driving mode on the fly when I'm entering my neighborhood so I don't annoy the neighbors.

However, a few critiques of the BM3 tune. After going to Stage 2, I would say Stage 1, 91 Octane is probably not worth it. I wouldn't invest in all the FBO mods without going to Stage 2 and I don't think staying stock and just doing Stage 1, 91 octane alone is enough power to justify voiding the warranty. The other issue I found is the way the tune handles the burbles which is finicky. I was never able to get my car back to working with ASD enabled and burbles at the same time. It did initially fine but as soon as I disabled ASD with the tune and then re-enabled it, boom they are gone. As long as ASD is disabled they work fine. I was in touch at length with PTF but they just gave up and said it wasn't the tune but the way BMW programs ASD. I was disappointed in the response but perhaps they'll figure out a way to make them work together in the future. I still just don't get why ASD has anything to do with disabling the burbles (different ECUs) and they did work together initially, but they insist it's not the tune. Anyway, rolling with ASD disabled is growing on me but I just wish I had the option to have ASD enabled with burbles. Maybe they'll fix it in a future release. I'm going to try enabling ASD separately through Bimmercode to see if that makes a different just out of curiosity.

All in all, I'm happy with the tune and like the fact that I can do it myself and they will be updating over time. I'm pleased overall and would recommend it.

[specka]

Thanks for the update.
I'll probably purchase BM3 this weekend and move to the same tune you are now running.
Fortunately for me, I dislike ASD and disabled it via Bimmercode as soon as I got the car. I agree though that it seems strange that the two settings cn't coexist.

What I would love would be no burbles in Comfort and Sport and only having them in Sport+. I find the backfires and burbles to be a little silly at times, but I like the more responsive throttle etc of the Sport mode.

Do you know if this is possible?

Thanks again.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ecitizen

An update to my original post. I had the Wagner EVO II Comp IC installed along with AA charge pipe to round out my Fabspeed sport cat and moved to Stage 2, 91 Octane. In summary, it's more of the power I had hoped for in Stage 1 so worth it. Pulls harder and I can hear the turbo spool up across all driving modes. As expected, most of the power is felt in the low to mid-range with a little more at the top end but I'm not sure there's much more to get out of the top end on this motor. Burbles are really strong in Sport and Sport+ but essentially go away in Comfort which is great since I can toggle down the driving mode on the fly when I'm entering my neighborhood so I don't annoy the neighbors.

However, a few critiques of the BM3 tune. After going to Stage 2, I would say Stage 1, 91 Octane is probably not worth it. I wouldn't invest in all the FBO mods without going to Stage 2 and I don't think staying stock and just doing Stage 1, 91 octane alone is enough power to justify voiding the warranty. The other issue I found is the way the tune handles the burbles which is finicky. I was never able to get my car back to working with ASD enabled and burbles at the same time. It did initially fine but as soon as I disabled ASD with the tune and then re-enabled it, boom they are gone. As long as ASD is disabled they work fine. I was in touch at length with PTF but they just gave up and said it wasn't the tune but the way BMW programs ASD. I was disappointed in the response but perhaps they'll figure out a way to make them work together in the future. I still just don't get why ASD has anything to do with disabling the burbles (different ECUs) and they did work together initially, but they insist it's not the tune. Anyway, rolling with ASD disabled is growing on me but I just wish I had the option to have ASD enabled with burbles. Maybe they'll fix it in a future release. I'm going to try enabling ASD separately through Bimmercode to see if that makes a different just out of curiosity.

All in all, I'm happy with the tune and like the fact that I can do it myself and they will be updating over time. I'm pleased overall and would recommend it.

OP, M2 is a very difficult platform to see solid gain. Even with FBO STG2, there're days you would see just 30hp from a completely stock car.

The best way to 'feel' more power is to toggle between drive modes. Without knowledge, you'd think S+ makes 200+ more than comfort. We call that drama.

The drama is what most of tune in the market give you. It create the sensation in the way that you don't have to rev it high enough to feel torque. When you 'effortlessly' get torque feedback, you acknowledge power.

As mentioned above, the hot humid days you have minimal gain with STG2 from stock, STG1 will be just as powerful if not more power than STG2. Because when DME step back aggressiveness you lose more than you would with a less strong tune.

If you ever log, you will see bm3 OTS ramp up boost progressively. And STG2 and 1 are of little difference up till 4k point where boost cap can kick in and restrict the aggressiveness.

You can get more sensation from other tunes - VF, AA both of which I logged as well. Their OTS quality are good but it's in a different style.

AA tried to be mild at the beginning in late 2016, releasing 'track proven' tune that's advertising only 370whp. Not well received by the market which for sure is always seeking quick 'success', instant benefit and 'bragging right'. Half a year later they push a max out anyway tune that appeal these audience till this day.

VF from day one crack stupidly high boost down low and increase throttle sensitivity to make most drama. But top end is diminishing badly even with high octane due to heat management capacity and trim setting. I have a thread for dynograph.

BM3 also changes its approach. Where it is, personally I would feel most comfortable with on a FBO stock turbo setup. Plus the open platform that you can find tuners tune to your needs. And what's more important is that you can share results and logs so you're less likely to be fooled and manipulated by vendor and tuner. I guarantee tuner/vendor manipulation has been there all the time.

Happy motoring!

Sean

[ecitizen]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

OP, M2 is a very difficult platform to see solid gain.
As mentioned above, the hot humid days you have minimal gain with STG2 from stock, STG1 will be just as powerful if not more power than STG2. Because when DME step back aggressiveness you lose more than you would with a less strong tune.

Sean, thanks for the insight. Even with the bigger intercooler, does the above apply when it's hot? I'm in AZ so summers get really hot, not so much humid. Perhaps I'll try toggling down to STG1 when it's hot to see how it compares to STG2.

Also, I do have a tuner local who does their own custom tune. I'm wondering if they can really do much more than I'm getting from BM3?

[ecitizen]

Originally Posted by specka

Thanks for the update.
I'll probably purchase BM3 this weekend and move to the same tune you are now running.
Fortunately for me, I dislike ASD and disabled it via Bimmercode as soon as I got the car. I agree though that it seems strange that the two settings cn't coexist.

What I would love would be no burbles in Comfort and Sport and only having them in Sport+. I find the backfires and burbles to be a little silly at times, but I like the more responsive throttle etc of the Sport mode.

Do you know if this is possible?

Thanks again.

I'm not sure you can customize burbles to that level. Seems like you can only adjust intensity but they are gone in Comfort but strong in Sport and Sport+. You can adjust burble settings to OTS, OEM, Original, and OFF. I don't know what Original means and OTS and OEM seem about the same to me. Let us know your thoughts once you flash the tune. I'm going to try Bimmercode as well.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by ecitizen

Sean, thanks for the insight. Even with the bigger intercooler, does the above apply when it's hot? I'm in AZ so summers get really hot, not so much humid. Perhaps I'll try toggling down to STG1 when it's hot to see how it compares to STG2.

Also, I do have a tuner local who does their own custom tune. I'm wondering if they can really do much more than I'm getting from BM3?

I made road trips that pass by Arizona. I know it has about the lowest quality gas throughout the nation. I'd log in summer to know how comfortably DME is responding to the tune and decide from there.

STG2 almost maxes out FBO stock turbo on pump gas already. There is not much left in it with custom tune, especially when you're more octane limited than normal.

I'd only do custom with bigger turbo or meth.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

OP, M2 is a very difficult platform to see solid gain. Even with FBO STG2, there're days you would see just 30hp from a completely stock car.

The best way to 'feel' more power is to toggle between drive modes. Without knowledge, you'd think S+ makes 200+ more than comfort. We call that drama.

The drama is what most of tune in the market give you. It create the sensation in the way that you don't have to rev it high enough to feel torque. When you 'effortlessly' get torque feedback, you acknowledge power.

As mentioned above, the hot humid days you have minimal gain with STG2 from stock, STG1 will be just as powerful if not more power than STG2. Because when DME step back aggressiveness you lose more than you would with a less strong tune.

If you ever log, you will see bm3 OTS ramp up boost progressively. And STG2 and 1 are of little difference up till 4k point where boost cap can kick in and restrict the aggressiveness.

You can get more sensation from other tunes - VF, AA both of which I logged as well. Their OTS quality are good but it's in a different style.

AA tried to be mild at the beginning in late 2016, releasing 'track proven' tune that's advertising only 370whp. Not well received by the market which for sure is always seeking quick 'success', instant benefit and 'bragging right'. Half a year later they push a max out anyway tune that appeal these audience till this day.

VF from day one crack stupidly high boost down low and increase throttle sensitivity to make most drama. But top end is diminishing badly even with high octane due to heat management capacity and trim setting. I have a thread for dynograph.

BM3 also changes its approach. Where it is, personally I would feel most comfortable with on a FBO stock turbo setup. Plus the open platform that you can find tuners tune to your needs. And what's more important is that you can share results and logs so you're less likely to be fooled and manipulated by vendor and tuner. I guarantee tuner/vendor manipulation has been there all the time.

Happy motoring!

Sean

Good info as usual.

Do you know of a dyno of just a BM3 tune without any other modifications? Seems everyone has some other bolt ones.

[Anthony1s]

I installed BM3 Stg1 on my M2 a week ago, with only Eventuri intake, MPE, and 255/275 tires as mods. However, I've been reluctant to give my first impressions as my car was in the shop from an accident for 6 months and I flashed the tune the day after I got it back. Also it's been snowy and below freezing, so traction is terrible either way. Because of that, my thoughts aren't too useful, as I don't have a good baseline of what stock feels like. However, my first impression is that burbles are way more intense (in a way that I like) but the car felt the same otherwise.

Once it gets warmer out, I will do back to back comparisons.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by specka

Thanks for the update.
I'll probably purchase BM3 this weekend and move to the same tune you are now running.
Fortunately for me, I dislike ASD and disabled it via Bimmercode as soon as I got the car. I agree though that it seems strange that the two settings cn't coexist.

What I would love would be no burbles in Comfort and Sport and only having them in Sport+. I find the backfires and burbles to be a little silly at times, but I like the more responsive throttle etc of the Sport mode.

Do you know if this is possible?

Thanks again.

Let me know if i can help getting you the BM3

[chris719]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I made road trips that pass by Arizona. I know it has about the lowest quality gas throughout the nation. I'd log in summer to know how comfortably DME is responding to the tune and decide from there.

STG2 almost maxes out FBO stock turbo on pump gas already. There is not much left in it with custom tune, especially when you're more octane limited than normal.

I'd only do custom with bigger turbo or meth.

Do you have any experience with flash tunes and the 6MT post-shift lag or interruption that people talk about? Can that be helped with a tune?

[MZWIE]

With STAGE2 I do notice more throttle pedal lag (not turbo lag). What I mean is that the pedal can move quite a bit before feeling any revving.

Can this be adjusted via BM3.

[atlas]

Originally Posted by specka

Thanks for the update.
I'll probably purchase BM3 this weekend and move to the same tune you are now running.
Fortunately for me, I dislike ASD and disabled it via Bimmercode as soon as I got the car. I agree though that it seems strange that the two settings cn't coexist.

What I would love would be no burbles in Comfort and Sport and only having them in Sport+. I find the backfires and burbles to be a little silly at times, but I like the more responsive throttle etc of the Sport mode.

Do you know if this is possible?

Thanks again.

Within the BM3 tune there is a CUSTOM setting, where you can choose differentburble settings for Sport and Sport+.