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      03-22-2019, 12:41 PM   #23
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Thanks for the write up, sounds like the same receipt as OG M2.

Add camber plates set to -2.75 or 3
Aftermarket track brake pads
High temp brake fluid

How did the stock pads hold up, did they "melt" to the rotors under heavy abuse?
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      03-22-2019, 12:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
A square setup is one of the small solutions. 255 square


Camberplates will do but can get uncomfy(rumbling anybody?)


Cheers
Robin
Nah if you go square it has to be at least 265 if not 275 or 285. Problem is you can't run 18's on the M2C with the BBK.
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      03-25-2019, 03:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Just stumbled on this thread and had some Qs about the M2C on track. Thanks for the excellent feedback BTW.

1) how did you find the 2NH brakes? I am in the EU and debating on whether I should order these or wait 2 years on the blue brakes and get APs when the warranty runs out

2) what did you mean by "-The M2C is a good/decent track car out of the box but I would look elsewhere if you plan to get a bit more serious."

Did you mean look into P cars or ZL1 1LE type cars or into track cars like a Radical or Westfield etc?

I currently track about 10-12 times a year for half day sessions (2-4 hours open pitlane), I usually take it easy and drive 8/10 or so as I have to drive the car home at the end of the day.

I plan to turn the M2C into a streetable track car (just keepig it road legal) once I get another car in 4-5 years. Do you as a more experienced guy think this is worth it? or is the platform simply too limited to ever compare to a 2nd hand touring car or track day special?
1) I found the brakes kind of meh. They sure are big and pretty but I personally don't like the feel of it. If this was an option, I would save the money for a set of AP/Essex brake kits. Some things really bother me about the weight it adds and the limited selection of wheels due to its size. Plus I think they are mediocre at best on stock pads. Haven't tried track pads on this car yet but I doubt I will.

2) I mean if you are going to regularly track a car, get a dedicated track car. Unless you have GT3 and GT3RS to play around with, I don't see any good compromise on the market where you will enjoy a track focused car on the road. If you track regularly, you would know the maintenance cost of a light vs heavy track car. Ideally, you'll wanna go as light as you can, hence my main track car is an Atom.

3) Do I think it is worth it? I personally don't because it's quite capable on its own to be enjoyed as a track car based on your purpose and track usage. I would just enjoy it and see what you need going forward. If it becomes more serious for you, you will have the answer. Everybody starts somewhere and find their own path of enjoyment in this sport. Enjoy your car in good health.
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      03-25-2019, 03:51 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Thanks for the write up, sounds like the same receipt as OG M2.

Add camber plates set to -2.75 or 3
Aftermarket track brake pads
High temp brake fluid

How did the stock pads hold up, did they "melt" to the rotors under heavy abuse?
Fade, fade, fade. Didn't see any melting but definitely not confidence inspiring within a 20 minute session.
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      03-25-2019, 08:49 AM   #27
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Thanks for the info, just changed my config to the standard brakes

Sadly a 2nd car is not something which I can currently afford due to space and time constraint.

I guess your right, in 4-5 years I might feel very different about it all!
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      03-25-2019, 09:14 AM   #28
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What is a "square setup" that is often discussed on this forum? TIA
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      03-25-2019, 11:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconUSAF View Post
What is a "square setup" that is often discussed on this forum? TIA
A square wheel set up = front and rear tires of equal width. Benefit being more balanced handling characteristics (less understeer, as wide rear tires can out-grip the fronts with a staggered set up). Also allows for tires to be rotated.
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      03-25-2019, 01:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
Fade, fade, fade. Didn't see any melting but definitely not confidence inspiring within a 20 minute session.
Sounds like the brake pad compound didn't get any better for track compared to the blue brakes. Aftermarket track pads are the only way to go.
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      11-30-2020, 04:08 PM   #31
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Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to do an update on the review/comparison between the 1M and M2C after another 2 years. I still have both and have since added an NA E36 M3 race car to the arsenal.

As for the 1M, I have not taken it to the track nor driven it much in the past two years. I didn't intent for the 1M to be a garage queen but as the collection got a bit bigger, it was harder to find time to enjoy it. I had the pleasure to drive it for the past week and its as special as ever. The tactile feel is as good as it gets for a street car that can still fit my family. I've already reserved this car for my 7 year old so it's not going anywhere.

M2C:
I had the pleasure to take an amazing roadtrip from Vancouver down to LA last November while hitting up Thunderhill and Laguna. Slapped on a set of new Cup2 and BM3 and off I went with my neighbor in his heavily modded C5 Z06. The car performed quite well on both tracks but nothing spectacular. I did manage to pass every car on track in my group but I kept it 8/10 as it was still needed to take me all the way back home in this 2 week roadtrip. My biggest takeaway is how well the car did on the entire trip. Looking at my garage, I couldn't have brought a better car for that specific job. To be able to carry me and camping gear (yes we camped as much as we could) for 2 weeks thru the best canyons, 110mph highway cruising, LA traffic, rain, hail, cold, hot, while still being required to kick ass at Thunderhill and Laguna. Not once did it disappoint and was able to do it under the radar with all the creature comforts ie GPS, bluetooth, heated seats, heated steering, driving modes, and memory seat positions. I never really cared for those things before but they matter quite a lot when you have to quickly adjust things on the fly for the circumstance. My neighbor (a hardcore Porsche guy) and I would joke that it's a half price 911 GTS.

I did a writeup about my 2 week ED trip with the M2C as well but I can't find where that is anymore. In essence, it was a very similar trip where I hit up the ring for my first time. Having 2 years of ownership, 2 big roadtrips and 4 tracks under its belt, I can confidently give this car my seal of approval. The M2C is really a great car especially for the money. Once again, heat management was excellent and I never once worried about it like I still do with the N54. There's a big list of mods that I would like to do for the M2C but with the way that its being used, I can honestly say that tires, tune and pads is all you need to have a great time. My wife loves it as her daily so unless a Carrera T gets really cheap, I don't think this car can be replaced for what it does.

Now since this topic was about track comparisons, I mentioned that I added an E36 M3 to the track fleet. At about 2700lbs, NA built S52 motor, full race setup, pump gas, is by far the best BMW i've driven on track. Its incredibly balanced and the input is almost telepathic. Mind you, I'd want to kill myself after just driving it down a street but on track, it is pure gold. It does a very respectable time for what it is and just spanks both the 1M and M2C with only about 300hp and for under $20k.

In summary, the 1M still feels very special and will mostly stay that way forever, the M2C continues to impress but could be easily replaced with M2cs, 911 etc. Neither the 1M and M2C belongs as a "more serious" track car. Ideally 95% street, 5% track. The E36 M3 is my holy grail for BMW track driving. Thanks to everyone that appreciated this thread and looking forward to the next 2 years.

Cheers,
NKC
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      11-30-2020, 06:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
M2C finally arrived from ED on Thursday and I took it right to the track for a shakedown run for Friday-Sat at Area27. Luckily, it's been well broken into with 2500kms in Europe. Flushed with Motul RBF660 and off I went.

I left in the morning and got to the track for the afternoon sessions. The track was damp, cold, and empty so it was perfect for me to test it in the wet and have some fun practicing slides in this baby especially in DCT. I went with my neighbor's 991.1gt3rs so that's pretty much all I could compare it with that day.

Wet Impressions:
-Great fun in the damp.
-Must turn everything off (MDM is still too intrusive)
-MDM allows a bit more slip than it did in the 1M but power didn't feel pure with it

As it got later in the day, the track dried up and it was time to get serious running with an RS with Cup2s.

Dry Impressions:
-Understeer is a bitch at 8/10th +.
-PSS is well undersized for track duties
-Needs camber. A lot more camber
-Car is quick but can feel it can have a lot more between 5-7k rpm.
-Best setting for me was Sport+ throttle - Sport and maybe even comfort for steering - Quickest setting for shifting but DIY. I didn't like the gear selection when the computer did it for the DCT. The DCT is no where near a PDK on track.

Comparison with 1M on Track:
-M2C much more composed
-M2C much easier to handle at its limits
-M2C is way more powerful
-M2C has incredible heat management
-1M was more fun and M2C was no drama

I wasn't too serious about comparing lap times but the M2C at its stock form was easily as fast as my FBO 1M on R888 back in its heyday. This was mostly due to the M2C's composure and ability to use its power out of corners instead of trying to constantly find grip in the 1M even on 295 R888R.

The next day was dry with about 30 cars on track. Learned nothing more than I did the day before aside from keeping the psi over 26 on the tires when it cools because a warning light comes on and tries to limit your speed to 80kph. I found the car was great at about 35-37psi hot all around.

If you intend to track this car regularly, I'd highly recommend the following:
-Set of lighter/wider wheels with grippier tires (ie Cup2 or R888 etc). I'd just go straight to Hoosier R7 and swap at the track.
-Get camber plates and set fronts to at least -3degrees.
-Racing brake fluids
-Racing pads
-GTS or CS tune to get that much needed extra power between 5-7k rpm

That's all this car needs to become a respectable weapon at the track while still maintaining some sanity on the street where this car really shines.

Biggest takeaway from this shakedown:
-Seats are the best of both worlds. Surprised how great it hugged my sides on track.
-The M2C is a good/decent track car out of the box but I would look elsewhere if you plan to get a bit more serious.
-Super impressed with the oil temps. Coming from the N54, this S55 engine temp is the greatest thing about this car on track.

All in all, I never intended this car to be tracked regularly but it performed better than expected. I probably won't track it again but my wife will. That's not to say it is bad, it was just uneventful and the lap times will never be mind blowing. I don't want to make the mistake of spending tens of thousands of dollars again like I did on the 1M to make it do something it was never designed to do extraordinarily well in. For me, this car will remain completely stock sans pads/fluid for the track for my wife to enjoy this sport.
Excellent review and very spot on.
Literally hit the nail on the head with every point, which is why after 1 track day, I did camber plates, re71R tires, track pads and fluid.

To add on to the review, once you have the mods listed above; The only thing I can comment on is that it fixes all of the issues you listed, but creates a new issue of a bit excessive oversteer. Car still feels very controlled but a lot more fun! However if you're after laptimes, I think -3F -2.5R camber would be perfect.
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      11-30-2020, 06:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadM2C View Post
Excellent review and very spot on.
Literally hit the nail on the head with every point, which is why after 1 track day, I did camber plates, re71R tires, track pads and fluid.

To add on to the review, once you have the mods listed above; The only thing I can comment on is that it fixes all of the issues you listed, but creates a new issue of a bit excessive oversteer. Car still feels very controlled but a lot more fun! However if you're after laptimes, I think -3F -2.5R camber would be perfect.
Exactly! Fix one problem and another one arises lol. The rears can definitely benefit with wider wheels and tires. Its got the power to back it up.
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      12-01-2020, 01:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Exactly. The fastest way to hate your road car is to start turning it into a race car. On the flip side, one of the best ways to enjoy your road car is to have fun on a track.
Well said.
second that. m2C is a fun and very capable high performance road car. full out track car....not really. if it weighed less and was a bit more purposeful for track use from the factory, the maybe yes. anything more than 3000 lbs. just involves higher use of track consumables and given the expenses for m2c it's not a cheap proposition. doesn't mean you can't enjoy it once in a while on track for HPDE days. just my opinion.
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      12-02-2020, 12:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
second that. m2C is a fun and very capable high performance road car. full out track car....not really. if it weighed less and was a bit more purposeful for track use from the factory, the maybe yes. anything more than 3000 lbs. just involves higher use of track consumables and given the expenses for m2c it's not a cheap proposition. doesn't mean you can't enjoy it once in a while on track for HPDE days. just my opinion.
Maybe I'm just used to big 'old 5 series on track and how they went through tires but the M2C doesn't feel like a big heavy car on track to me. Oh and I ran away from the plethora of E36/E46 out there unless a fully stripped/modded one.
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      12-02-2020, 12:57 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
Maybe I'm just used to big 'old 5 series on track and how they went through tires but the M2C doesn't feel like a big heavy car on track to me. Oh and I ran away from the plethora of E36/E46 out there unless a fully stripped/modded one.
That's good to know. I plan on going to a track even in January. Looking forward to the moving this beast around the track and see for myself. I'm only used to driving a S2000 (2800 lb.) and know the power will be intoxicating especially on the straights coming out of turns. Can't wait.
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      12-09-2020, 04:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
That's good to know. I plan on going to a track even in January. Looking forward to the moving this beast around the track and see for myself. I'm only used to driving a S2000 (2800 lb.) and know the power will be intoxicating especially on the straights coming out of turns. Can't wait.
Let us know how it goes and your impressions on how it does at the track.
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      01-23-2021, 02:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
M2C finally arrived from ED on Thursday and I took it right to the track for a shakedown run for Friday-Sat at Area27. Luckily, it's been well broken into with 2500kms in Europe. Flushed with Motul RBF660 and off I went.

I left in the morning and got to the track for the afternoon sessions. The track was damp, cold, and empty so it was perfect for me to test it in the wet and have some fun practicing slides in this baby especially in DCT. I went with my neighbor's 991.1gt3rs so that's pretty much all I could compare it with that day.

Wet Impressions:
-Great fun in the damp.
-Must turn everything off (MDM is still too intrusive)
-MDM allows a bit more slip than it did in the 1M but power didn't feel pure with it

As it got later in the day, the track dried up and it was time to get serious running with an RS with Cup2s.

Dry Impressions:
-Understeer is a bitch at 8/10th +.
-PSS is well undersized for track duties
-Needs camber. A lot more camber
-Car is quick but can feel it can have a lot more between 5-7k rpm.
-Best setting for me was Sport+ throttle - Sport and maybe even comfort for steering - Quickest setting for shifting but DIY. I didn't like the gear selection when the computer did it for the DCT. The DCT is no where near a PDK on track.

Comparison with 1M on Track:
-M2C much more composed
-M2C much easier to handle at its limits
-M2C is way more powerful
-M2C has incredible heat management
-1M was more fun and M2C was no drama

I wasn't too serious about comparing lap times but the M2C at its stock form was easily as fast as my FBO 1M on R888 back in its heyday. This was mostly due to the M2C's composure and ability to use its power out of corners instead of trying to constantly find grip in the 1M even on 295 R888R.

The next day was dry with about 30 cars on track. Learned nothing more than I did the day before aside from keeping the psi over 26 on the tires when it cools because a warning light comes on and tries to limit your speed to 80kph. I found the car was great at about 35-37psi hot all around.

If you intend to track this car regularly, I'd highly recommend the following:
-Set of lighter/wider wheels with grippier tires (ie Cup2 or R888 etc). I'd just go straight to Hoosier R7 and swap at the track.
-Get camber plates and set fronts to at least -3degrees.
-Racing brake fluids
-Racing pads
-GTS or CS tune to get that much needed extra power between 5-7k rpm

That's all this car needs to become a respectable weapon at the track while still maintaining some sanity on the street where this car really shines.

Biggest takeaway from this shakedown:
-Seats are the best of both worlds. Surprised how great it hugged my sides on track.
-The M2C is a good/decent track car out of the box but I would look elsewhere if you plan to get a bit more serious.
-Super impressed with the oil temps. Coming from the N54, this S55 engine temp is the greatest thing about this car on track.

All in all, I never intended this car to be tracked regularly but it performed better than expected. I probably won't track it again but my wife will. That's not to say it is bad, it was just uneventful and the lap times will never be mind blowing. I don't want to make the mistake of spending tens of thousands of dollars again like I did on the 1M to make it do something it was never designed to do extraordinarily well in. For me, this car will remain completely stock sans pads/fluid for the track for my wife to enjoy this sport.
Spot on honest review. Appreciate your comments as my initial thinking is also the same. Not a straight out purposeful track car without spending considerable dollars, but definitely respectable on occasional track days.
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      01-23-2021, 10:25 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
M2C:
I had the pleasure to take an amazing roadtrip from Vancouver down to LA last November while hitting up Thunderhill and Laguna. Slapped on a set of new Cup2 and BM3 and off I went with my neighbor in his heavily modded C5 Z06. The car performed quite well on both tracks but nothing spectacular. I did manage to pass every car on track in my group but I kept it 8/10 as it was still needed to take me all the way back home in this 2 week roadtrip. My biggest takeaway is how well the car did on the entire trip. Looking at my garage, I couldn't have brought a better car for that specific job. To be able to carry me and camping gear (yes we camped as much as we could) for 2 weeks thru the best canyons, 110mph highway cruising, LA traffic, rain, hail, cold, hot, while still being required to kick ass at Thunderhill and Laguna. Not once did it disappoint and was able to do it under the radar with all the creature comforts ie GPS, bluetooth, heated seats, heated steering, driving modes, and memory seat positions. I never really cared for those things before but they matter quite a lot when you have to quickly adjust things on the fly for the circumstance. My neighbor (a hardcore Porsche guy) and I would joke that it's a half price 911 GTS.

Cheers,
NKC
Sounds epic! Let us know if you find the link to the write up.
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