[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mkinzie

M2 is not stock. But. Yeah. I guess I underestimated the camaro. I fig would be close. But just thought. I would be slightly faster. O well.
I got a good idea of where car sits.

It would help if you were in the correct gear for a race rather than into auto mode.

[Mkinzie]

Yea I just fig sports + mode. Switched gears faster than I could.
Not proficient with paddle shifters yet.

[negativepitch]

I had a 2018 SS 1LE and now own a 2020 M2C. I just got back from a local dyno with the M2C which is the same shop that dyno'd my SS 1LE, both in stock form.

The SS 1LE was rated at 455 hp and dyno'd 393 hp (84 degrees, 56% humidity) which was about the loss I expected. My M2C just dyno'd at 406 hp (72 degrees, humidity 36%), oddly right on the money for what BMW claims.

I'm looking for my SS 1LE dyno print out because I'm almost certain it was noticeably faster. I don't know if it's a gearing thing or maybe the total area under the curve, but I found the results interesting.

2020 M2C stock:

View post on imgur.com

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by negativepitch

I had a 2018 SS 1LE and now own a 2020 M2C. I just got back from a local dyno with the M2C which is the same shop that dyno'd my SS 1LE, both in stock form.

The SS 1LE was rated at 455 hp and dyno'd 393 hp (84 degrees, 56% humidity) which was about the loss I expected. My M2C just dyno'd at 406 hp (72 degrees, humidity 36%), oddly right on the money for what BMW claims.

I'm looking for my SS 1LE dyno print out because I'm almost certain it was noticeably faster. I don't know if it's a gearing thing or maybe the total area under the curve, but I found the results interesting.

2020 M2C stock:

View post on imgur.com

Interesting that you got a big drop off in power after around 5500 RPM. Another poster was also noticing that on his dyno run, but he put his car on multiple dynos and while making vastly different numbers on different dynos would be expected, the different power curve was not.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1710272

Looks like he then ran again on the original dyno and did not get the big drop off (right before tuning his car)

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1711637

I wonder if the ECU limits power at high RPM's if it detects that conditions are not ideal? It doesn't seem to matter too much to peak power, but area under the curve would be hugely affected.

[McLaren720s]

Originally Posted by negativepitch

I had a 2018 SS 1LE and now own a 2020 M2C. I just got back from a local dyno with the M2C which is the same shop that dyno'd my SS 1LE, both in stock form.

The SS 1LE was rated at 455 hp and dyno'd 393 hp (84 degrees, 56% humidity) which was about the loss I expected. My M2C just dyno'd at 406 hp (72 degrees, humidity 36%), oddly right on the money for what BMW claims.

I'm looking for my SS 1LE dyno print out because I'm almost certain it was noticeably faster. I don't know if it's a gearing thing or maybe the total area under the curve, but I found the results interesting.

2020 M2C stock:

View post on imgur.com

Your M2C dyno at 406 to the wheels which means crank hp is much higher that the official 405 hp rating from BMW. Your car is actually making around 470 hp which is obviously higher that the SS 1LE of 455hp (clearly also showed by the dyno, 393 vs 406).
This isn’t a surprise since most M2C dyno over 400 whp stock and they are seriously underrated by BMW.

As for the Camaro “feeling” faster, that’s another story. The feel and actual numbers/performance can be two different things. BMWs tend is vibrate less and isolate more sound which removes some of the “feel” of speed.

Needless to say, the M2C is a much better matchup for the Camaro SS, than the OG M2.

[McLaren720s]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Interesting that you got a big drop off in power after around 5500 RPM. Another poster was also noticing that on his dyno run, but he put his car on multiple dynos and while making vastly different numbers on different dynos would be expected, the different power curve was not.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1710272

Looks like he then ran again on the original dyno and did not get the big drop off (right before tuning his car)

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1711637

I wonder if the ECU limits power at high RPM's if it detects that conditions are not ideal? It doesn't seem to matter too much to peak power, but area under the curve would be hugely affected.

That was me, and for the second dyno the car was not put in dyno mode as the shop did not know about it, and the car freaked out, threw a hunch of codes and then proceeded to limit power to only 377whp.

I recently re-dynoed the car properly and made 430whp with a perfect power curve.

Also, his power curve is actually very good. What you see drop off is the torque curve which is also correct.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

Also, his power curve is actually very good. What you see drop off is the torque curve which is also correct.

Lol! You're right! Light green vs. slightly less light green. Took me a second to see it.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by negativepitch

I don't know if it's a gearing thing or maybe the total area under the curve, but I found the results interesting.

2020 M2C stock:

View post on imgur.com

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

Your M2C dyno at 406 to the wheels which means crank hp is much higher that the official 405 hp rating from BMW. Your car is actually making around 470 hp which is obviously higher that the SS 1LE of 455hp (clearly also showed by the dyno, 393 vs 406).
This isn’t a surprise since most M2C dyno over 400 whp stock and they are seriously underrated by BMW.

As for the Camaro “feeling” faster, that’s another story. The feel and actual numbers/performance can be two different things. BMWs tend is vibrate less and isolate more sound which removes some of the “feel” of speed.

Needless to say, the M2C is a much better matchup for the Camaro SS, than the OG M2.

Originally Posted by Moflow

Lol! You're right! Light green vs. slightly less light green. Took me a second to see it.

This. Area under the curve is why the Camaro feels and is quicker. And the LT1 delivers a thick, flat curve till over 6000 rpm. This is why the old adage "no replacement for displacement" still hold true today. The HP keeps increasing instead of decreasing. By the way, the dyno sheet attached is stock LT1 motor.

LT1 Camaros will dyno at 388 - 406hp depending on the dyno. But the TQ is always flat and high. Throw a Cam in that motor and you get extra 100hp and 50lb/ft easy. More with supporting mods like intake and headers. Even with just intake and tune reputable tuners like Livernois Motosports advertise 440+ HP and 460+ LB/FT.

[Orion_APW]

Buying a M2 to drag...

[negativepitch]

Thanks McLaren720s and 5.M0NSTER, that helps explain the discrepancy between my initial understanding of the dyno results and the feeling that my Camaro was faster.

[medphysdave]

I think folks lose site of the fact that 400hp isn't a lot anymore. I had one of these play with me on the highway. No match for Fury Kitty, but not really a fair fight. I was impressed with the SS for sure. Probably stickers for half the price too.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

This. Area under the curve is why the Camaro feels and is quicker.

Area under the curve is generally not super well understood by the automotive community, but it makes such a big difference, both in feel and in overall performance.

Video games actually really helped me understand this phenomenon. Back in the day I used to play a lot of Gran Turismo 5. One of the tuning options in that game was a "horsepower limiter." The way this limiter worked was pretty hilarious, it would just draw a horizontal line across dyno graph at whatever power number you wanted, rather than actually shrinking the curve as a whole.

My trick for drifting would always be to tune a car to like 800 hp, then set the horsepower limiter to something like 450 horsepower. The result would be a normal looking power graph up until the car hit 450hp (at something like 3500 RPM.) Then it would just make exactly 450 hp until something like 7500 RPM. The resulting car would be SOOO much faster than any other 450 hp cars in the game because you were always in the power band no matter what and the power delivery was always incredibly smooth as RPM didn't really make a difference on power to the pavement.

It's actually something I like about the M2C, as BMW took a similar tact on the top end. It makes less power than an M3/M4 but it makes its peak power for quite a while. I suspect the linearity up top is also partially why so many people enjoy drifting it.

It may not be the same area under the curve as the Camaro, but in its own right, it's doing pretty good in that regard (for a 3.0L)