[bobert]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

I think with a manual you lose a lot. At least in the E92 M3 the difference is really big.

Originally Posted by m_michael

0-60, about half a second slower with a manual. It's not even close with DCT + launch control.

On the track you'll probably lose multiple 10ths of a second per low speed corner depending on how capable and smooth you are with a manual.

Probably all true, but completely irrelevant to folks like me.

At any rate, to each his own - not knocking anyone's DCT choice (as long as they don't publicly lament that they actually wanted manual but their spouse made them choose DCT ). We'll all be out of time soon anyway, forced out of manual and DCT choices into a slushbox-only world, at least until we get the steering wheel taken away too.

[MartyE12345]

This may be a dumb question but I just picked up the DCT, is there any harm downshifting into first while the car is still moving or rolling like a manual would?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by MartyE12345

This may be a dumb question but I just picked up the DCT, is there any harm downshifting into first while the car is still moving or rolling like a manual would?

I have seen people recommend against it, but I have not seen any data to back up it's bad. It definitely is a harsher rev match so I stopped doing it and just let it coast from 2nd to a stop.

[Saphirschwarz]

Originally Posted by MartyE12345

This may be a dumb question but I just picked up the DCT, is there any harm downshifting into first while the car is still moving or rolling like a manual would?

I think 1st gear is overkill, but no problem with 2nd

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

Yes the creeping burns the clutch. (Or at least irritates the gnomes).
As for creeping itself. As a manual driver being behind a white Camry (its usually always a white Camry) that creeps 40m towards a red light at a creep rate below a manuals lowest speed is amongst the most irritating things on earth. Creep pause creep drivers even worse. I often think a short strangulation session ended with a head toss into the steering wheel would probably solve it.

DCT is fine to creep with though, having a wet clutch. Porsche wouldn't default to creep on non GT cars if it was going to harm the gnomes.

[izzyM2]

Originally Posted by MartyE12345

This may be a dumb question but I just picked up the DCT, is there any harm downshifting into first while the car is still moving or rolling like a manual would?

If you want to treat it like how you shift a manual car you will be fine. What I mean is if you are use to down gearing to help it slow down or wanting to hear the aggressive sound in a manual it’s ok too in a DCT as long as you don’t go pass redline and you will feel that it will interact like a manual tranny with all the fine jerks but just faster.

I do downshift if I have to stop immediately but not all the way down to 1st gear, I find that unnecessary and way to aggressive for daily driving. Even from a dead stop, you will find the system will allow you to start from 2nd gear unless u are facing up-hill as it promotes saving a bit of energy.

I understand the animosity towards DCT’s. But if you educate yourself and not let ignorance prevail, it is really just a better manual tranny. An easier, faster dual clutch transmission where you can throw in auto mode whenever you feel like it, but it is more expensive. I remember how the E90’s 92’s M3 DCTs are when you start the car it always starts in manual mode and not in auto but they change that the following model to avoid confusion for never-manual users.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by izzyM2

If you want to treat it like how you shift a manual car you will be fine. What I mean is if you are use to down gearing to help it slow down or wanting to hear the aggressive sound in a manual it’s ok too in a DCT as long as you don’t go pass redline and you will feel that it will interact like a manual tranny with all the fine jerks but just faster.

I do downshift if I have to stop immediately but not all the way down to 1st gear, I find that unnecessary and way to aggressive for daily driving. Even from a dead stop, you will find the system will allow you to start from 2nd gear unless u are facing up-hill as it promotes saving a bit of energy.

I understand the animosity towards DCT’s. But if you educate yourself and not let ignorance prevail, it is really just a better manual tranny. An easier, faster dual clutch transmission where you can throw in auto mode whenever you feel like it, but it is more expensive. I remember how the E90’s 92’s M3 DCTs are when you start the car it always starts in manual mode and not in auto but they change that the following model year to avoid confusion for non-manual users.

DCT is the superior transmission, no doubt. Just having fun arguing semantics . If you can't money shift it, it's not truly manual . The gnomes will not let you!

[Davil]

Originally Posted by chris719

DCT is the superior transmission, no doubt. Just having fun arguing semantics . If you can't money shift it, it's not truly manual . The gnomes will not let you!

You've ruined me. I am forever now going to be thinking about gnomes in the transmission. Possibly even talking to them.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by ryem3

The pdk in the gt3 and gt3 rs does not have any creep. Many complain about the dct, because the m2 dct doesn't creep either. It is an electronic shifting manual. A slush box with a torque converter is a very different tranny. Many already know that the dual clutch technology is also on the way out.

I like my m2 manual box, but I don't love it. This isn't a gated manual. It isn't a Porsche. The dct is finally worthy. I've had a lot of manuals and I owned an e46 SMG M3. Quite an evolution.

IMHO the MT box is just fine, it is by far the best MT BMW ever, but than again; the clutch is its weakest point, no feeling, late / high engagement

I do like the shifter
I do not like the clutch

[ryem3]

Originally Posted by Romo

it is by far the best MT BMW ever,

Hmm, I'm afraid you need to go back a little ways, but my pick would be an E36 M3 with the non-overdrive 5 speed. Good clutch feel, tight shifter, and no CDV.
Drive a manual 997.1 Carrera S with a short shifter and tell me how it compares!

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by ryem3

Hmm, I'm afraid you need to go back a little ways, but my pick would be an E36 M3 with the non-overdrive 5 speed. Good clutch feel, tight shifter, and no CDV.
Drive a manual 997.1 Carrera S with a short shifter and tell me how it compares!

Exactly - Never ever drive a MT in a Porsche. You will walk away asking why BMW can't do this? :

[Slaney]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...XRh?li=BBnbfcL

argument done - go with a manual

[Kuervers]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Exactly - Never ever drive a MT in a Porsche. You will walk away asking why BMW can't do this? :

Owned a 997.2 TT with short shift shifts were crisp but wasn't a fan of the clutch. Wasnt the easiest to launch AWD doesn't help

[Romo]

Originally Posted by ryem3

Hmm, I'm afraid you need to go back a little ways, but my pick would be an E36 M3 with the non-overdrive 5 speed. Good clutch feel, tight shifter, and no CDV.
Drive a manual 997.1 Carrera S with a short shifter and tell me how it compares!

I've driven a fair amount of MT BMW`s; E28, E30, E46 328i, E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 1M, F87 M2. (I have to admit the E36 fails in my BMW ownership)

For me the M2 MT shifter is the best compared to all the predecessors.

My only Porsche MT experience is the 981 GT4, very good shifter indeed, but the clutch way to heavy , I also used to own a 981 Cayman GTS, PDK, that PDK was just out of this world IMO!

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Slaney

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...XRh?li=BBnbfcL

argument done - go with a manual

That's hilarious! Although it does highlight one drawback to a manual transmission...valet parking

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Exactly - Never ever drive a MT in a Porsche. You will walk away asking why BMW can't do this? :

I don't know, it might be that cable shift linkages have some advantages. Almost every cable shifted 6MT is a lot smoother than the BMW MTs I have driven. The rubbery feel and long throws are intentional I think. The Z4M is not very rubbery compared to other BMW transmissions, but the 2nd gear "issue" and notchiness is worse than other BMW transmissions.

What is weird is that the E46 M3 and Z4M for example share a lot of characteristics in shift quality, yet the M3 box is made by Getrag and the Z4M box is made by ZF. I guess BMW really is specifying the behavior.

Somehow even GM and Ford get better shift quality using those Tremec transmissions which haven't changed much in 20 years.

[stefan]

Get the manual while you still can. The awe of fast shifts wears off quick.

[seis-speed]

When I see a DCT, I cringe....I guess if you have a leg injury or drive on the 405 in LA at primetime it could ‘possibly’ make sense to someone, maybe?

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

When I see a DCT, I cringe....I guess if you have a leg injury or drive on the 405 in LA at primetime it could ‘possibly’ make sense to someone, maybe?

When I see a post like this I cringe...I guess if you have a head injury, then it could possibly makes sense to the reader.

I don't hate MT (I had >11 6MT BMWs in the past) I love DCT and it's my second DCT car I ordered.

I see you also have a 1M. Great car!
I was doing THIS with my 1M until I got disabled and had to opt for an autobox... Not!

Unforunately there are no US guys in F1 because otherwise all F1 cars would have 6MTs.

Cheers
Robin

[bdogk]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

When I see a post like this I cringe...I guess if you have a head injury, then it could possibly makes sense to the reader.

I don't hate MT (I had >11 6MT BMWs in the past) I love DCT and it's my second DCT car I ordered.

I see you also have a 1M. Great car!
I was doing THIS with my 1M until I got disabled and had to opt for an autobox... Not!

Unforunately there are no US guys in F1 because otherwise all F1 cars would have 6MTs.

Cheers
Robin

I totally concur with Robin. My first BMW dates back to '74 2002 as I grew up driving MT BMW's since. Now on my 2nd M2 and a M2C on order - all with DCT. Since the DCT is technically a MT, you can still be as engaging as you want. And if you autocross or track your car, it can't be beat.

For seis-speed to bash DCT over MT is unnecessary. Glad BMW is still providing the choice for us. Really, to each his/her own.

[Free Spirit]

A lot of manual haters or people who can't drive stick, not sure..

The manual is way more fun, trust me.. I drove both and although the DCT is impressive but gets boring after the novelty of fast shifting wears off.

I can't say the same about a stick, I get excited every time I see a car with one, from a full blown M car or a 1988 Toyota Corolla.. It adds another dimension to an otherwise boring vehicle..

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Exactly - Never ever drive a MT in a Porsche. You will walk away asking why BMW can't do this? :

I'm a manual fan and ordering my M2C with 6MT too but I didn't even have to drive a Porsche to remember how BMW's MT wasn't the best. I have been driving 5-speed 2001 Miata since last week and the transmission feels great. No rubbery feeling, no resistance on 1st to 2nd shifts. As you said, I've been asking myself why BMW can't do this.