[Davil]

First thing I have to say here is that I don't like automatics and aside from one very brief period of about a year through circumstances out of my control I have driven only manual cars for 34 years. There's so much more control than an auto. So much more balance.

I also went to test drive the M2 with the idea that I would get a manual.

I think it's worth driving the DCT for anyone considering both, or even those only considering manual. The DCT isn't really an automatic. It's a manual that can self shift if required. As such, you get a lot of that control that you have with the manual. It still has that feel of direct connection that you lose in a traditional auto.

You just need to give it a go.

At first it throws you a bit because the act of changing gears with a manual is so analog. You put the gear into a position and you know where it is. You don't think about it, but you know you've moved the lever down and left and are in second. It's like an extra confirmation for knowing where you are at.

So the paddle thing sort of threw me a bit as you have to look at the screen to know what gear you are in. This initially feels awkward. However, like anything, you get used to it. Yes it's different. After a while it feels good. Then it feels natural. Then it feels fun.

So this time, I've gone with the DCT.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Davil

First thing I have to say here is that I don't like automatics and aside from one very brief period of about a year through circumstances out of my control I have driven only manual cars for 34 years. There's so much more control than an auto. So much more balance.

I also went to test drive the M2 with the idea that I would get a manual.

I think it's worth driving the DCT for anyone considering both, or even those only considering manual. The DCT isn't really an automatic. It's a manual that can self shift if required. As such, you get a lot of that control that you have with the manual. It still has that feel of direct connection that you lose in a traditional auto.

You just need to give it a go.

At first it throws you a bit because the act of changing gears with a manual is so analog. You put the gear into a position and you know where it is. You don't think about it, but you know you've moved the lever down and left and are in second. It's like an extra confirmation for knowing where you are at.

So the paddle thing sort of threw me a bit as you have to look at the screen to know what gear you are in. This initially feels awkward. However, like anything, you get used to it. Yes it's different. After a while it feels good. Then it feels natural. Then it feels fun.

So this time, I've gone with the DCT.

It's an automatic man. I've owned two. Hopefully you won't regret choosing DCT like I did twice.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by dmk08

It's an automatic man. I've owned two. Hopefully you won't regret choosing DCT like I did twice.

Feels nothing like an automatic. There’s a world of difference.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Davil

Feels nothing like an automatic. There’s a world of difference.

Why cause it's jerky??? I much prefer a ZF8 myself if buying an auto.

[Poochie]

When I was ordering my 135, the sales person told me that instead of the manual, they have a DCT option..

I said; 'you mean an automatic?'

He said; "No, it's a manual but it shifts for itself"

I almost got up and walked out.

You people have been brainwashed by all the marketing hype..

If it shift for itself it's an [COLOR="DarkRed"]automatic[/COLOR].

If you have to manually change the gears for the car to move, it's a [COLOR="Blue"]manual[/COLOR].

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I said; 'you mean an automatic?'

He said; "No it's a manual but it shifts for itself"

I almost got up and walked out.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Poochie

When I was ordering my 135i the sales person told me that instead of the manual they have a DCT option..

I said; 'you mean an automatic?'

He said; "No it's a manual but it shifts for itself"

I almost got up and walked out.

You people have been brainwashed by all the marketing hype..

If it shift for itself it's an automatic.

If you have to manually change the gears for the car to move, it's a manual.

Haha. I’m not sure you understand how gearboxes work.

With the DCT you don’t lose any control. Actually you have even more gears which gives more control and isn’t possible in a manual without going to a gated arrangement which is fine for trucks but not the fastest way to shift in a performance car.

The auto shifting aspect is just a bonus. Not sure where you live but I’m at the stage where I avoid going places because of traffic. 2km in 30 minutes. I’ll still try to avoid this but at least it won’t drive me to insanity (as much).

Anyway, I was just giving my thought process.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Davil

Haha. I'm not sure you understand how gearboxes work.

With the DCT you don't lose any control. Actually you have even more gears which gives more control and isn't possible in a manual without going to a gated arrangement which is fine for trucks but not the fastest way to shift in a performance car.

The auto shifting aspect is just a bonus. Not sure where you live but I'm at the stage where I avoid going places because of traffic. 2km in 30 minutes. I'll still try to avoid this but at least it won't drive me to insanity (as much).

Anyway, I was just giving my thought process.

Sometimes it's just easier living the lie..

Enjoy your DCT bro...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

Haha. I’m not sure you understand how gearboxes work.

With the DCT you don’t lose any control. Actually you have even more gears which gives more control and isn’t possible in a manual without going to a gated arrangement which is fine for trucks but not the fastest way to shift in a performance car.

The auto shifting aspect is just a bonus. Not sure where you live but I’m at the stage where I avoid going places because of traffic. 2km in 30 minutes. I’ll still try to avoid this but at least it won’t drive me to insanity (as much).

Anyway, I was just giving my thought process.

It's an automatic gearbox. Nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is. Even SMG was an automatic. How its implemented doesn't really matter as to the classification. I don't care if you have gnomes in your transmission instead of a torque converter, it can shift by itself. DCT has the same amount of control as the automatic in a 997 Porsche (would not shift for you at rev limiter in manual mode). Porsche's PDK even creeps forward when you lift off the brake.

Attempts to differentiate SMG / DCT type transmissions from conventional automatics were useful when they were really terrible.

[m_michael]

A self shifting transmission by definition is an automatic, regardless of the implementation.

[Davil]

This should help. Though I suspect semantics will prevail.

Good article that explains everything well.

"I’m certain some people buy them presuming they’ve got an automatic - it would be easy enough if you’re not a car nut, not a diligent researcher of such things and - let’s face it - the dealer’s not likely to tell you unless you ask. If they know. They’re there to sell you the car, not educate you, right?

But a dual clutch transmission is not an automatic transmission. And you do need to know. Instead of a torque converter, they have an automated clutch - it can be a wet clutch or a dry clutch - but it’s a clutch, not a fluid coupling."

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/tran...ual-clutch-cvt

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

This should help. Though I suspect semantics will prevail.

Good article that explains everything well.

"I’m certain some people buy them presuming they’ve got an automatic - it would be easy enough if you’re not a car nut, not a diligent researcher of such things and - let’s face it - the dealer’s not likely to tell you unless you ask. If they know. They’re there to sell you the car, not educate you, right?

But a dual clutch transmission is not an automatic transmission. And you do need to know. Instead of a torque converter, they have an automated clutch - it can be a wet clutch or a dry clutch - but it’s a clutch, not a fluid coupling."

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/tran...ual-clutch-cvt

I appreciate the link, but if a random kid can drive it without instructions it's an automatic. It even defaults to D mode.

Is a CVT not an automatic?

I would get a manual in this car simply because they may be extinct soon and this gearbox gets pretty good reviews.

[pruettfan]

I am always amazed by these debates, its like debating what color is best. We are fortunate to have the choice between two excellent transmissions, it is up to each person to choose which is best for their needs, tastes etc. There is no right or wrong answer. No reason to shame anyone for choosing a different transmission than you prefer.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I am always amazed by these debates, its like debating what color is best. We are fortunate to have the choice between two excellent transmissions, it is up to each person to choose which is best for their needs, tastes etc. There is no right or wrong answer. No reason to shame anyone for choosing a different transmission than you prefer.

It is a bit unusual.

I was just giving my experience coming from being a died in the wool manual driver that never thought he would change.

I suspect there is fear that if not enough people buy the manual, then they will go away and wreck it for everyone that wants one. So I can see that point.

The reality is that both manual & DCT will both likely go away within 5 years.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by chris719

It's an automatic gearbox. Nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is. Even SMG was an automatic. How its implemented doesn't really matter as to the classification. I don't care if you have gnomes in your transmission instead of a torque converter, it can shift by itself. DCT has the same amount of control as the automatic in a 997 Porsche (would not shift for you at rev limiter in manual mode). Porsche's PDK even creeps forward when you lift off the brake.

Attempts to differentiate SMG / DCT type transmissions from conventional automatics were useful when they were really terrible.

LOL

[infinitekidM2C]

Ive always driven a manual but i get what Davil is saying. You still control when the shift is made, it's just the mechanics of how it's done.

I shift pretty quick so i'm curious as to how much time i'm losing in say a 0-60. Not much i reckon. So meh just stay with manual.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2

Ive always driven a manual but i get what Davil is saying. You still control when the shift is made, it's just the mechanics of how it's done.

I shift pretty quick so i'm curious as to how much time i'm losing in say a 0-60. Not much i reckon. So meh just stay with manual.

I think already the DCT in the standard M2 is great. It probably will have improved to the Competition.

I think with a manual you lose a lot. At least in the E92 M3 the difference is really big.

[m_michael]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2

Ive always driven a manual but i get what Davil is saying. You still control when the shift is made, it's just the mechanics of how it's done.

I shift pretty quick so i'm curious as to how much time i'm losing in say a 0-60. Not much i reckon. So meh just stay with manual.

0-60, about half a second slower with a manual. It's not even close with DCT + launch control.

On the track you'll probably lose multiple 10ths of a second per low speed corner depending on how capable and smooth you are with a manual.

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by Davil

It is a bit unusual.

I was just giving my experience coming from being a died in the wool manual driver that never thought he would change.

I suspect there is fear that if not enough people buy the manual, then they will go away and wreck it for everyone that wants one. So I can see that point.

The reality is that both manual & DCT will both likely go away within 5 years.

Davil, you have 100% hit the nail on the head! I love manual gearboxes. But, when you look at take rate for even the M2, it's something like 2/3 of buyers choose the DCT. (There was some thread that broke down all the numbers for past 3 years of M2 production.) The U.S. is the lone exception, where something like 50% of buyers chose manual. If it weren't for U.S. buyers choosing manual, I'm sure BMW would have gotten rid of it on the M2C.

So, I feel an evangelical fervor when it comes to promoting the religion of 6MT. Come, my brother, let me convert you and show you the way! Let us not stray from the Lord's light into the darkness that is DCT!

Everyone, just get the manual so that I can continue to get my manual, okay? Please? Pretty please?

[ryem3]

Originally Posted by chris719

Porsche's PDK even creeps forward when you lift off the brake.

The pdk in the gt3 and gt3 rs does not have any creep. Many complain about the dct, because the m2 dct doesn't creep either. It is an electronic shifting manual. A slush box with a torque converter is a very different tranny. Many already know that the dual clutch technology is also on the way out.

I like my m2 manual box, but I don't love it. This isn't a gated manual. It isn't a Porsche. The dct is finally worthy. I've had a lot of manuals and I owned an e46 SMG M3. Quite an evolution.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I am always amazed by these debates, its like debating what color is best. We are fortunate to have the choice between two excellent transmissions, it is up to each person to choose which is best for their needs, tastes etc. There is no right or wrong answer. No reason to shame anyone for choosing a different transmission than you prefer.

If we've learned anything over the years on the internet in car forums it's that for some strange reason engine oil and transmission type seem to bring out a lot of emotion in posters.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by ryem3

The pdk in the gt3 and gt3 rs does not have any creep. Many complain about the dct, because the m2 dct doesn't creep either. It is an electronic shifting manual. A slush box with a torque converter is a very different tranny. Many already know that the dual clutch technology is also on the way out.

I like my m2 manual box, but I don't love it. This isn't a gated manual. It isn't a Porsche. The dct is finally worthy. I've had a lot of manuals and I owned an e46 SMG M3. Quite an evolution.

Yes the creeping burns the clutch. (Or at least irritates the gnomes).
As for creeping itself. As a manual driver being behind a white Camry (its usually always a white Camry) that creeps 40m towards a red light at a creep rate below a manuals lowest speed is amongst the most irritating things on earth. Creep pause creep drivers even worse. I often think a short strangulation session ended with a head toss into the steering wheel would probably solve it.