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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 CS Model > M2 CS Price for the US: $83,600 (plus $995 Destination)

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      12-17-2019, 09:20 PM   #859
DieGrüneHölle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
I'm not disputing the weight of the CS is listed at 1550kg(3417lbs). The M2 Comp is also listed at 1550kg in its official press release. Keep in mind those press releases are worldwide press releases, Flesch is also most likely referring to Euro spec M2's.

Now all the Euro BMW sites have the Comp and CS listed with same weight. Including Spain, who has their configurator up.

UK BMW site has same weights listed for Comp and CS as well. 1625kg/1650kg(Unladen EU includes 75kg for driver/luggage).
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...ata.html#tab-0
https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...ata.html#tab-1

The reason I think this is happening is overseas the standard M2 Comp still has lighter 437M wheels, lighter standard M2 seats, lighter blue caliper brakes. Less standard equipment all together for Euro market. I have no doubts base cars do actually weigh the same in Europe/UK. US market will be a different story, since the Comp got most of the upgraded equipment standard.

Their M2 Comp was more heavily optioned. Similar spec to a US version, big brakes, M4 seats, heavy 788m wheels, etc.
Not sure as the M2 Comp is 3,582 with manual. Not sure where all these stats are coming from? Im just so confused. You google these curb weights and it pops up immeditaly. We shall wait and see I guess. so BMW is lying?
It is simple, you are conflating two different types of weight figures. 3,582lbs is 1625kg. Both the Comp and CS are listed at 1625kg for EU curb weight. Like my post says earlier, EU curb weight includes 75 kg of ballast. You are quoting "DIN weight" 1550kg(3417lbs) for CS and "EU curb weight" 1625kg(3582lbs) for Comp.

Both manual CS/Comp are listed by BMW having same DIN and EU weights:
DIN - 1550 kg or 3417 lbs
EU - 1625 kg or 3582 lbs

75kg ballast accounted for in EU curb weight.

Last edited by DieGrüneHölle; 12-17-2019 at 09:31 PM..
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      12-17-2019, 09:27 PM   #860
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Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
+1

When the M2C came out, there were 5,873 posts filled with the rending of garments and lamentations to the heavens over a) its weight, b) the lack of color options, c) the ugly new wheels, d) the fact that it didn't come with a carbon roof, e) its lack of a HUD, f) its inferior Dakota leather, g) the horrible open weave carbon... etc., etc., etc... ad nauseum. And every other comment was, "What a fat s*** car! For the same money I could just go get a lightly used GT4 instead!"
I get your post, but no one was or is buying a used GT4 for $59k.
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      12-17-2019, 10:02 PM   #861
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I get your post, but no one was or is buying a used GT4 for $59k.
Word!
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      12-17-2019, 10:47 PM   #862
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Interesting that the CS can hang with the GT4 on a short track but isn't worth the money. It just seems even better once you factor in the utility. Certainly doesn't have the GT4 cool factor, but hey, neither do baby seats.
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      12-17-2019, 11:30 PM   #863
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I like it, it's a good time to be alive..

There was a time even if you had the $, you couldn't buy a car this handsome..
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      12-18-2019, 12:43 AM   #864
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I always knew the M2C is going to be the bargain of the century. Thats why when it was launched and I knew I had only one chance to own a sports car (with family, money, other challenges and what not), I just went for it. It ticked off all the boxes. Rear seats for kids, Practical, Fast, BMW, Polarizing color, DCT, Modern, 400hp rwd, < $60k and handles fantastic. There are some people who might have more boxes like carbon roof/bonnet/bits, adaptive suspension, 450hp, more exclusive and < $85k. The M2 CS is for them.
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      12-18-2019, 05:38 AM   #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
I cross shopped a Cayman and M2 before. Seen many threads debating between the two. Cayman actually has a lot of useful storage with frunk and trunk. Back seats in M2 are useless to me since I don't have toddlers or little people friends.
The rear seats are incredibly useful... IDK what you're talking about. My 6' tall self can easily get in the back and sit comfortably. The same cannot be said for my G35, where I would have to sit with my head sideways against the roof.
Totally. Rear seats for us have been everything in the 1M. Allowed me to keep my car a family car. Have raised our son in it since birth...I drove him home from the hospital and have taken so many road trips and family trips. Now he's 4.5 years old.

When I bought my 1M I cross-shopped it against only 1 other car——Cayman R. Decent car preferred the 1M. If I'd bought the a Cayman R none of the past 4.5 years of memories would have been possible. My son wasn't born when I cross-shopped these but the Cayman would have been sold as soon as I knew we were having a kid. The 1M was kept and has been perfect as a family car for 3.

NO cayman can do what an M2 or 1M or M3 or M4 can do. None.
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      12-18-2019, 07:01 AM   #866
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I really wonder if it will achieve the unique status that the 1M has. For those of us who bought into the 1M process and purchase, we got lucky. Nobody knew in advance that the car would reach cult status. The stars aligned.
The M2CS has the limited production, power and looks.

But Jeremy Clarkson is gone and BMW already did this once in 2011.

We'll see.
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      12-18-2019, 07:06 AM   #867
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None of us knew in 2010/2011 the cult status that our 1M's would reach. We all bought into the car because it was just "right", a wonderful combination of a semi-rogue production staff at BMW, a mix of tested M3 parts and a power plant/transmission that just made the car a screamer. Then, limited production, limited colors and tons of outstanding reviews by everyone who could, or who would drive it.
Timing was spot on, the market was ready.

But now, Jeremy is gone, and we'll have to see if the M2CS has what it takes to make it a cult car.
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      12-18-2019, 08:10 AM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Ricing out a M2C, making it heavier, and installing a worse suspension won't make it anything but fail status.

This is the first CS to be a downgrade from the C.
You've posted the same thing twice now, we get it, you can't afford the CS. Move on bud.
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      12-18-2019, 08:20 AM   #869
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Totally. Rear seats for us have been everything in the 1M. Allowed me to keep my car a family car. Have raised our son in it since birth...I drove him home from the hospital and have taken so many road trips and family trips. Now he's 4.5 years old.

NO cayman can do what an M2 or 1M or M3 or M4 can do. None.
Exactly. Not only are the rear seats roomy and comfy enough for an adult, but they also fold down, turning our "not as much storage as a Cayman with 2 trunks" into a MUCH larger area to hold stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
Yes sir...basically two trunks.

Cayman storage - 15 cu ft
M2 storage - 13.8 cu ft
So it takes 2 storage areas to barely be larger than one? I can't miraculously cut my large stuff in half, and put one in the front and one in the rear. If the frunk is anything like the 911's, it's very deep, but that's about it. It isn't particularly wide or long, it's just a deep hole with a narrow opening. The rear is essentially 2 shelves, and they don't look incredibly useful either. I'm not saying I use my M2 to pick up some 2x4's, but the trunk in the M2 is much much larger than I thought it would be.
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      12-18-2019, 08:27 AM   #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
What does price have to do with anything?

CS models are supposed to be performance upgrades to the C model.

What exactly is upgraded other than cosmetics? The suspension is a massive downgrade. The carbon brakes are arguably a downgrade as the steel disks are not a hindrance if braking performance. There is a slight increase in horsepower but it's just a flash.
You keep posting the same thing seeking attention, here you got mine.

You are listing opinions. Some prefer adaptive suspension, others do not. I'm with you, I don't necessarily think they're all that cool, I would prefer a proper coilover setup, but I can't adjust that inside the car... As for braking, carbons are much better than their steel counterparts, in both performance and weight. They have their trade offs, but on paper they are better. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean no one else is allowed to like them. As for the tune, you own a 2020 (like me), so you can't tune it. That whole argument is 100% out the window, since (at the current moment) you can't flash your ECU at all (unless you're willing to do a bench flash), therefore, irrelevant.

Enjoy your M2C, mod it like you want to mod it. I for one love the way the CS looks, and would love to have the carbon bits, especially the roof and front lip.
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      12-18-2019, 09:01 AM   #871
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Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Of course you can tune a 2020 though the OBDII port to 500whp, who said you can’t? This forum? LOL! The mods just delete the posts because the shop isn’t a sponsor. I’ll give you a hint, they’re a tuner shop that sells tuned cars at BMW dealerships and the guy who made the tunes is the most famous BMW engine builder in history.
You're off to a great start with your first 20 posts! I know for a fact that DME's with an iStep versions after a certain number are locked. My specific car is locked, I have verified that. Idk enough about Carbahn tunes to comment, but good for you. I don't give 2 shits. I'm waiting on BM3, like many others. Relax man, not everything is an argument.
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      12-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekraps View Post
I really wonder if it will achieve the unique status that the 1M has. For those of us who bought into the 1M process and purchase, we got lucky. Nobody knew in advance that the car would reach cult status. The stars aligned.
The M2CS has the limited production, power and looks.

But Jeremy Clarkson is gone and BMW already did this once in 2011.

We'll see.
My opinion is that it will eventually be written about as one of the best M cars ever produced, but I don't believe it will reach the same level as the 1M. My thoughts are that it's too limited to create an enthusiast following, but will piggyback on the cult status of the M2 overall. Time will park it next to the M3csl and Evo models likely for the difference in driving experience from other M2 models and limited run. A wikipage warrior. The days of ultra lightweight versions are likely behind us due to safety regulations. Lightweight cars these days have to be designed that way from the start. Everyone wants a CSL, but how many have driven one? BMW has the right idea by offering various platforms that cater to different needs. A multipurpose car is a compromise. It's not the best DD and it's not a track tool. It's reasonably tolerable at both. BMW has started to create the DD version, compromised multipurpose version, and version designed for track use GTS. It costs money to build a reliable vehicle that you can beat on day in and day out. The CS is getting a bit more of that attention. High intensity reliability that comes with a warranty.
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      12-18-2019, 09:16 AM   #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekraps View Post
I really wonder if it will achieve the unique status that the 1M has. For those of us who bought into the 1M process and purchase, we got lucky. Nobody knew in advance that the car would reach cult status. The stars aligned.
The M2CS has the limited production, power and looks.

But Jeremy Clarkson is gone and BMW already did this once in 2011.

We'll see.
Just in terms of exclusivity, aren't there less M2CS's being imported to the US than 1M's? Rarity plays a huge factor.
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      12-18-2019, 09:30 AM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekraps View Post
I really wonder if it will achieve the unique status that the 1M has. For those of us who bought into the 1M process and purchase, we got lucky. Nobody knew in advance that the car would reach cult status. The stars aligned.
The M2CS has the limited production, power and looks.

But Jeremy Clarkson is gone and BMW already did this once in 2011.

We'll see.
Just in terms of exclusivity, aren't there less M2CS's being imported to the US than 1M's? Rarity plays a huge factor.
Rarity only contributes partially.

Pricing and desirability is a big component.

Most people forget the 1M was priced at $47k. The most affordable M car ever. All cars manual gearbox. 3 colours. This was a car that shook up the scene. We hadn't seen anything like it from BMW since the 2002 Turbo in the 1970s. The 1M was also a ridiculously simple car. Basic and minimally decorated with function over form. Dealers had a list a mile long waiting for a 1M and they were quickly gone. I bought mine used 2 years later for above MSRP as did many others...

Now the M2 CS is priced way higher and comes at the tail end of a series of M2s which were already good. The car is not a surprise in any way most people have known it was coming. It's not a car that will "shock" people the way the 1M did.

Will it become a future classic? Possible..time will tell. But it's not going to do it the way the 1M did it. It will have to find its own way and its own method to become a classic.
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      12-18-2019, 09:48 AM   #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Rarity only contributes partially.

Pricing and desirability is a big component.

Most people forget the 1M was priced at $47k. The most affordable M car ever.
I haven't had the pleasure of driving a 1M, but would love to one day. Also, let it be known that $47,000 US in 2011 is equal to $54,700 in 2019.

The CS seems to have generated a ton of hype, and if the rumor of <500 units in the US is true, then I'd be willing to bet that there won't be any sitting on dealer lots. I don't think dealers are going to order an $85,000 2 series to sit in the showroom if no one has paid a deposit on one.
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      12-18-2019, 10:17 AM   #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
What the internet hypes and what the real world hypes are two totally different things.

If internet hype were true, Hillary Clinton would currently be our president.
That's a silly comparison; BMW sale numbers are not determined by the archaic and unbalanced Electoral College, it's majority rules..

It's also naive to believe that BMW can't sell 500 of the hottest car they've produced in a awhile.

They'll all be accounted for before they even hit the showrooms. Just watch..
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      12-18-2019, 10:57 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
What the internet hypes and what the real world hypes are two totally different things.

If internet hype were true, Hillary Clinton would currently be our president.
That's a silly comparison; BMW sale numbers are not determined by the archaic and unbalanced Electoral College, it's majority rules..

It's also naive to believe that BMW can't sell 500 of the hottest car they've produced in a awhile.

They'll all be accounted for before they even hit the showrooms. Just watch..
Hey, hey, hey! The EC was put in place for a valid reason. It's not really archaic and unbalanced at all.
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      12-18-2019, 11:05 AM   #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Just in terms of exclusivity, aren't there less M2CS's being imported to the US than 1M's? Rarity plays a huge factor.
Rarity only contributes partially.
Pricing and desirability is a big component.
Most people forget the 1M was priced at $47k. The most affordable M car ever. All cars manual gearbox. 3 colours. This was a car that shook up the scene. We hadn't seen anything like it from BMW since the 2002 Turbo in the 1970s. The 1M was also a ridiculously simple car. Basic and minimally decorated with function over form. Dealers had a list a mile long waiting for a 1M and they were quickly gone. I bought mine used 2 years later for above MSRP as did many others...
Now the M2 CS is priced way higher and comes at the tail end of a series of M2s which were already good. The car is not a surprise in any way most people have known it was coming. It's not a car that will "shock" people the way the 1M did.
Will it become a future classic? Possible..time will tell. But it's not going to do it the way the 1M did it. It will have to find its own way and its own method to become a classic.
Below a couple of considerations about the 1M:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
IMHO it's puzzling why many people still try explaining the 1M success (even nowadays) as a result of "primarily low production" ? As former 1M owner, in my view the main reason of its success was plain and simple: it was/is excellent value for money.

Compare 1M resale prices nowadays with those of rivals back then (2011 Cayman S and 2011 Audi TT RS Coupé). AFAIK I don't recall people still talking about those competing cars - they're mostly kinda 'forgotten' by later iterations. Try to find 2019 reviews saying something like "this new car reminds us of the infamous 2011 Cayman S / 2011 Audi TT RS Coupé".

Fun trivia: back then (2011) journalists asked Porsche to get a Cayman S for 1M comparison tests (comparable price range), and each time Porsche sent over a Cayman R (more powerful and different price range). I recall a journalist saying in a car magazine review that Porsche had told them that a Cayman S was not immediately available, unlike a Cayman R...

6309 1M cars were made (which ain't particularly 'rare') and 740 got stateside. It's fun to drive (kinda handful/rascal), looks more boisterous than lots of BMW cars back then (fenders on steroids - no boredom), manual only and very limited choice of customization (rather 'take it or leave it'), Valencia Orange was a quirky body color, and - last but not least - the car was affordable for lots of enthusiasts. As explained here: "It speaks to our inner child. [...] Owning a 1M is like owning your favorite Matchbox car. You feel like a kid again. You feel like anything is possible. There are no shortage of YouTube video reviews on the car, but if you watch them you start to see that there is one common element in all of them. The reviewers are giggling like little kids. I have never seen a car that evokes such a universal sense of childlike whimsy and fun." And there is some truth in it: a subtle reminder to childhood days.

Price of the M2 CS: almost double, positioned in a price range of a different class, swimming with bigger fish in the automotive pond. Different story.

Below: comparison published by BMW UK around 2010/2011:


Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
as a 1M owner, i appreciate the N55 M2 the most out of the entire M2 range. Don't care for the M2C but i think the N55 M2 captures and continues the spirit of the 1M best. Simple, affordable, enjoyable. Power is not what these cars need all they need is to be driven and driven hard!
I think anyone into the 'true' spirit of M cars will appreciate 'smaller' M cars the most like the E30 M3, E36 M3, Z3M, Z4M, 1M, and M2.
These days you have "enthusiasts" who buy M5s with over 500hp and a tragic torque converted automatic gearbox with AWD and electronic blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah no thanks. If those people can't appreciate a small M coupe----then be GLAD!!!
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Though mine is gone (to a good new home), I'll keep respecting it for all the right reasons.
----------------------------------------------------
Top 10 BMWs of the past 100 years
March 8th, 2016
7. BMW 1 Series M – When BMW developed the 1 Series M, many weren’t sure of how it would turn out. Made from what seemed like leftovers, the 1M was an amalgamation of the 1 Series chassis and some M Division parts from a couple of different M cars. So it didn’t seem like a proper M car to many fans. However, what we got was simply incredible. It took all preconceived notions of it being a Frankenstein car and through them out the window. The BMW 1M is still one of the best driving cars of BMW’s modern era. It's the car that other small M cars will look up to for the rest of the brand’s history. The little underdog BMW 1M went from a Frankenstein car to one of the most revered BMW’s in the last 20 years.
(source: here)
----------------------------------------------------
BMW 1 Series M Coupe now worth more than other models that were nearly twice as expensive new

BMW's rare, high-performance 1M Coupe is actually worth more now than it was when new, an unprecedented feat.
February 25, 2016
BMW's least expensive M-badged offering from 2011 has reached a small but significant milestone: It's now worth more than all of the other far costlier like-badged models it once shared showrooms with. [...]
Cars that manage to retain their original sales values -- or exceed them -- are extremely unusual. On average, after five years, a typical automobile is worth roughly 40 percent of what it cost when new. Some in-demand new cars and trucks can command a premium for a short period of time after launch, but such instances are rare, and generally very short lived. On occasion, six- and seven-figure exotics from companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini manage this feat, but at the BMW's comparatively terrestrial price point, it's all but unprecedented.
(source: here)
----------------------------------------------------
Which older BMW M Cars will be good investments?
January 25th, 2016
There are some ways to determine what is going to be a future classic, a car that will be worth considerably more in the future than what someone pays for it now. Things like age, rarity, importance and popularity all play a factor in what might make a car increase in value. And being that we’re BMW fans here, let’s make a look at some BMW M cars that might be good investments in the future. [...]
The BMW 1 Series M is a car we’ve talked about being a good investment quite a bit. It was a strange car for BMW, but in a very good way. It was made from a sort of collection of BMW M parts and was sold in very limited numbers. It also gained a cult following for its old-school BMW performance that brought back memories of cars like the BMW 2002 tii and the E30 M3. The 1M is one of the best driving BMWs of the 21st century and has already gone up in value since when it was new. They’re expensive to buy right now because of that, but its value should only continue to rise so getting one now might not be a bad idea.
(source: here)
----------------------------------------------------
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Sometimes it feels like 8-yr old kids discussing their bicycle colors at the playground.

Maybe only the M3 and M4 survive in the subjective "real M car" eco-system approach of some. For some, even only the E30 M3 is worthy getting the ///M badge. As someone said: "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." Otherwise said, each individual should be allowed to pursue his/her strengths. In addition, a weakness in some area should not induce feelings of debilitating inferiority. Check the value you got for the money paid, what purpose you mainly use your car for (daily driver? track? mountains? mix?) and how much fun it provides when you do those things.

Quote:
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The badge is like a birth certificate.

Regardless of the badge, it's all about the DNA and legitimate expectations about the bloodline.

E30 M3 SPORT EVO: 175kW - 238hp - 0-100km/h: 6.5s
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      12-18-2019, 11:06 AM   #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Ricing out a M2C, making it heavier, and installing a worse suspension won't make it anything but fail status.

This is the first CS to be a downgrade from the C.
Sorry but you are a fool if you really believe that statement.

I get it, you have a Comp etc. But to say that like the CS is not going to outperform it in every single category is crazy talk. (Downgrade) The engineers at M made the necessary tweaks etc to make this even faster and more gripping on the road and tack. Once the figures come out, you will see what no sense comment you made.

I have an OG M2 and I love it. I know the Comp out performs mines. But don't be sour and say the CS is "riced out" etc. The fact that this is the first CS with a manual is also a beautiful thing. If it is not in your budget, thats ok. No need to hate on the better M2 either.
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      12-18-2019, 11:07 AM   #880
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Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
What the internet hypes and what the real world hypes are two totally different things.

If internet hype were true, Hillary Clinton would currently be our president.
That's a silly comparison; BMW sale numbers are not determined by the archaic and unbalanced Electoral College, it's majority rules..

It's also naive to believe that BMW can't sell 500 of the hottest car they've produced in a awhile.

They'll all be accounted for before they even hit the showrooms. Just watch..
Hey, hey, hey! The EC was put in place for a valid reason. It's not really archaic and unbalanced at all.
I guess that's a matter of opinion but if you look at the US early history with it's school segregation and "White or Colored" separate water fountains, it's pretty obviously where the The Founders head was at, when it was written as such.. I'm just surprise it survived the test of time.

But that's a whole other forum.. Back to subject at hand; M2 CS is so gosh-darn expensive for mere mortals.
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