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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Competition Model > BMW M2 Competition faster than Cayman S, M3 ZCP, Type R, C63S on Magny-Cours GP Track

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      01-11-2019, 11:02 AM   #23
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Lap times should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I have a buddy with an identical M2 as I have, he is very experienced, great driver. He runs 4-5 seconds faster than I do and I am faster than most. I have seen guys in slow cars drive incredible lap times and I have seen guys in very capable cars turn in very slow lap times. That is not to even get in the discussion of weather, track condition or tire condition/type. Point is the only lap time that is really relevant is the lap time you can turn in your car.
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      01-11-2019, 11:05 AM   #24
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      01-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #25
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wow thats really impressive. the car def is a rocket
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      01-11-2019, 11:37 AM   #26
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For all the Type R bandwagoners, here's further proof of the car's track capabilities from independent testers.
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      01-11-2019, 12:00 PM   #27
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      01-11-2019, 12:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twintiga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I call my car 'M2 Comp' for short, so does Joe Achilles from the UK, but he also refers to his car as 'M2 Competition'.

In the UK it's called M2 Competition 'officially' as well:

https://www.bmw.co.uk/bmw-cars/bmw-m...m2-competition


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Robin my comment wasn’t referring to comp vs competition. My point is that the M3 and M4 didn’t come in a competition model. The competition package was an additional option not a new model.

The M2 comp or competition and the M5c are completely different models and are not packages added to the original M2 or M5.

So to call an M2c a comp package or competition package is not accurate. Also to call an M3 with ZCP an “M3 competition” is not accurate.

But who cares only nerds like us do.

Interesting. I never thought of it this way.
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      01-11-2019, 12:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthmaster View Post
So there is a 0.04 difference inbetween 4 cars. This can literally be different any day of the week. To say it's "faster" I think is a bit of an exaggeration. Basically all 4 cars perform pretty equally on the track imo.
Errr no.
Whether by a fraction of a second or by 5 minutes. A WIN is a WIN.

A lot of people try to downplay the success of a car reaching first with this rhetoric and it doesn't work.
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      01-11-2019, 12:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
Lap times should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I have a buddy with an identical M2 as I have, he is very experienced, great driver. He runs 4-5 seconds faster than I do and I am faster than most. I have seen guys in slow cars drive incredible lap times and I have seen guys in very capable cars turn in very slow lap times. That is not to even get in the discussion of weather, track condition or tire condition/type. Point is the only lap time that is really relevant is the lap time you can turn in your car.
This is the inconvenient, 800lb gorilla in the room that most won't acknowledge.

IME, track times are influenced far more by drivers than hardware. In other words, smart money goes to the proficient driver in the slower car, rather than the less experienced driver in a faster car.

Also IME, debating track times is argued most energetically by those who spend little time at the track.
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      01-11-2019, 12:32 PM   #31
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I know this about the bmw but if they have a Pista there then would be nice to know the comparative lap times of its competition such as a Huracan Performante, 720s, 911 Gt2 etc...seems wierd to put a Pista out with a bunch of cars it clearly does not compete with
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      01-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife View Post
Errr no.
Whether by a fraction of a second or by 5 minutes. A WIN is a WIN.

A lot of people try to downplay the success of a car reaching first with this rhetoric and it doesn't work.
Nope, not when debating which of these cars is the "fastest".

A 4/100th fraction of a second spread over a 2 minute course among four cars is within a margin of error.

Your post is valid for a competitive race, but not for clarifying which of these cars is faster than another.
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      01-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
For all the Type R bandwagoners, here's further proof of the car's track capabilities from independent testers.
Weird what happens when you remove the roll cage, don't remove parts of the interior, and use stock tires.
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      01-11-2019, 01:19 PM   #34
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Anybody know what Tyers it's riding on?

Nice numbers...

Cup 2's?
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      01-11-2019, 01:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
For all the Type R bandwagoners, here's further proof of the car's track capabilities from independent testers.
Are you saying this as a negative or a positive?
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      01-11-2019, 01:41 PM   #36
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^Sport Auto ran 8:01 at the 'ring. Honda ran 7:43. I trust independent testers as it relates to track times.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/commen...t_nurburgring/

So to answer your question, it's a negative.
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      01-11-2019, 02:10 PM   #37
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Even though I agree that these tests weren't done in the same day under the same weather conditions, the drivers who did tests aren't your average HPDE driver. Btw, most of the tests were done by the same driver (Romain Monti). He was the driver for M2 Competition, M3 Competition, M2, 718 Cayman S, C63S, Alpine A110, and Camaro.

Some of their video descriptions also include what tires they had on the cars. M2C for instance had stock Pilot Super Sport while Alpine had Pilot Sport 4S. It doesn't mention but I believe M2 and M3C had the stock PSS tires as well. However, M3C stock tire sizes are 265/285 (vs 245/265) so it has some advantage there in addition to the power difference.

Here are videos of some other cars at the same track and by the same driver:

M2 (Driver:Romain Monti)



M3 Competition (Driver:Romain Monti)



718 Cayman S (Driver:Romain Monti)



Camaro (Driver:Romain Monti)



C63S (Driver:Romain Monti)

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      01-11-2019, 03:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Agree....and this one is another source.

Nordschleife is/has been resurfaced(as we speak) between a few hundred metres from Adenauer Forst to Schwedenkreuz(infamous bump on the inside will be gone I heard)



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      01-11-2019, 03:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceramic Rabbit View Post
A lot of people like the power delivery of the M2C more than the m3/4, it would definitely be nice not to take the 50bhp hit for no reason but the linearity of the map makes drivability better.
Actually the M3 ZCP map is pretty linear, I’d put it in an M2 without any hesitation.

And what these cars would benefit the most on track is OEM camber, a small drop plus a meaty square setup (295 or 305 all around). The times would be very competitive with anything up to $120k.
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      01-11-2019, 04:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twintiga View Post
Does it annoy anyone else when they refer to a ZCP M3 as M3 Competition, or call the M2c a “comp pack”?

Semantics I know but still annoying. 🤣
When you look at the badge on the M2C's rear end, it' written "M2 Competition"?



Don't know what your issue is.
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      01-11-2019, 05:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
Lap times should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I have a buddy with an identical M2 as I have, he is very experienced, great driver. He runs 4-5 seconds faster than I do and I am faster than most. I have seen guys in slow cars drive incredible lap times and I have seen guys in very capable cars turn in very slow lap times. That is not to even get in the discussion of weather, track condition or tire condition/type. Point is the only lap time that is really relevant is the lap time you can turn in your car.
Its the same driver and he's super familiar with the track. Not buying it broseph.
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      01-11-2019, 05:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
When you look at the badge on the M2C's rear end, it' written "M2 Competition"?



Don't know what your issue is.
You're agreeing with him. This car is called M2 Competition, so calling it "M2 Comp Pack" is incorrect. It's not an M2 with a Competition Package added, it's an M2 Competition.

Similarly, there's no such thing as an M3 Competition yet, but there is a Competition Package available for the M3 - referring to an F80 M3 ZCP as "M3 Competition" is also incorrect.

It's a silly issue, but I agree with Mrgunfun that it's annoying when reviewers (mainly British) make up their own versions of car names because they always have to be different.
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      01-11-2019, 05:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by twintiga View Post
Does it annoy anyone else when they refer to a ZCP M3 as M3 Competition, or call the M2c a “comp pack”?

Semantics I know but still annoying.
When you look at the badge on the M2C's rear end, it' written "M2 Competition"?



Don't know what your issue is.
[quote=Robin_NL;24187973]
Quote:
Originally Posted by twintiga View Post
Does it annoy anyone else when they refer to a ZCP M3 as M3 Competition, or call the M2c a “comp pack”?

Semantics I know but still annoying.
He's just pointing out that there's a difference between a competition package and a competition model, although the difference is really irrelevant. Competition models are basically equipped the same as the competition packages used to be. It's more confusing since the M2C engine change coincided with the change in how they identify the model, and there's no longer a "base" M2 offered. The M2C engine change was done more for emissions purposes than for designating a "special" M2 model variant with an engine based on the M3/4. Unlike the M5, where you can still get a "base" M5 and a M5C model, but the engines in both are very similar. So basically, they should have just stayed with the ZCP Competition Package identifier and slapped a competition badge on the back, but as usual the Germans make everything overly complicated and model naming is no exception to that. It's similar to when they stopped using the "xi" identifier and changed to xDrive.
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      01-11-2019, 07:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twintiga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I call my car 'M2 Comp' for short, so does Joe Achilles from the UK, but he also refers to his car as 'M2 Competition'.

In the UK it's called M2 Competition 'officially' as well:

https://www.bmw.co.uk/bmw-cars/bmw-m...m2-competition


Cheers
Robin
Robin my comment wasn’t referring to comp vs competition. My point is that the M3 and M4 didn’t come in a competition model. The competition package was an additional option not a new model.

The M2 comp or competition and the M5c are completely different models and are not packages added to the original M2 or M5.

So to call an M2c a comp package or competition package is not accurate. Also to call an M3 with ZCP an “M3 competition” is not accurate.

But who cares only nerds like us do.

You are correct. The newer "comp pack" cars are a different model. Especially the m2. BUT, the m5 is basically a regular m5 with a comp pack even though it's labeled a different model to go with the new thing BMW is doing. The differences between the m5 comp and M3 comp is no different. Same thing but different way of saying it. Differences between regular model and comp are identical minus actual badging. So M3 comp and m5 comp. M2 comp is the only M2 now. It's a spicy little bastard.
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