[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by amancuso

I too had a Mk7 golf GTI for about 2 years. I had the DSG first for about 3 months and absolutely hated its behaviour. Traded that in for same car but with 6MT. You simply cannot compare the DCT in the M2 to the DSG box in the Golf. Night and day difference. I liked the DCT so much, that's the one I bought.

The DSG in the Golf R is great. Not sure exactly why you hated the behavior as in regular mode it does it's job going the gears quickly for fuel economy and sport is fairly sports. It also has the kickdown switch behind the gas pedal so if you put the pedal to the floor it bypasses the shift logic to automatically kick down to the lowest available gear relative to current speed for maximum acceleration. It's not like S-Sport mode in my old EVO X TS-SST where it wouldn't shift until redline in every gear but it's a good balance IMO.

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The DSG in the Golf R is great. Not sure exactly why you hated the behavior as in regular mode it does it's job going the gears quickly for fuel economy and sport is fairly sports. It also has the kickdown switch behind the gas pedal so if you put the pedal to the floor it bypasses the shift logic to automatically kick down to the lowest available gear relative to current speed for maximum acceleration. It's not like S-Sport mode in my old EVO X TS-SST where it wouldn't shift until redline in every gear but it's a good balance IMO.

It changes gear as fast as really any other transmission but there's sometimes a throttle delay when you're at a stop and with the paddles occasionally.
Its a very good transmission just not tuned very well from the factory, needs the DSG tune. Certainly not bad for a 30-40k car.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Towerworld

It changes gear as fast as really any other transmission but there's sometimes a throttle delay when you're at a stop and with the paddles occasionally.
Its a very good transmission just not tuned very well from the factory, needs the DSG tune. Certainly not bad for a 30-40k car.

The delay from a stop is probably my only grip outside the fact it could use a 3rd mode. I rarely use the paddles as I've never been a huge fan of paddle shifting with these transmissions as I don't see the benefit seeing in sport mode they act as fast or faster than you can flip a paddle. I ordered a manual M2 as I like to switch it up and at $3500 CAD I don't like the automatic that much more.

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The delay from a stop is probably my only grip outside the fact it could use a 3rd mode. I rarely use the paddles as I've never been a huge fan of paddle shifting with these transmissions as I don't see the benefit seeing in sport mode they act as fast or faster than you can flip a paddle. I ordered a manual M2 as I like to switch it up and at $3500 CAD I don't like the automatic that much more.

I just don't like the points it shifts at automatically when aggressive driving, sometimes changes at redline sometimes way too early.

[ryem3]

Originally Posted by stefan

Have you guys seen the colour gamut on offer? It's pretty incredible.

Really painful to look at that palette and know that you can't get an m2 with individual colors. I had a 2015 R and really miss it. Traded it on my 2017 m2. That R is a great car and the DCC is really outstanding. The interior is much nicer than an m2, the leather is nicer and the electronics are now much better for 2018, but the same for the m2. Owning that R for a year had zero depreciation, that doesn't happen often. The custom colors are expensive, hate to spring for that and only own the car for a year, not really worth it.

[champignon]

For the time being, I have decided not to get rid of my 2016 Golf R, and in fact I might even trade it in on a 2018, if the numbers make sense.

The bottom line on the car is that in spite of all the "asterisks" I might put in a description of the car, it's really a unique offering in its segment. It is the only "Hot Hatch" with grown up exterior and interior styling, has AWD, can carry a ton of stuff in spite of its small footprint, has way more than adequate power, etc. I was hopeful that some of the new competition would pan out to be better, but they are all disappointing in their own ways.

The common sense part of me says to unload the car, however the practicality side says I need something that can carry more than one other adult comfortably, can haul some cargo, is easy to put my dog into for hiking, road trips, etc. It is also nice to have a car that you can take on dirt roads and park in dodgy places without worrying about it too much; it's just a VW.

Although I could rent something for the odd times when I would "need" it, renting a car for me means taking a public bus 12 miles and then connecting to another bus or walking another mile and a half, then dealing with limited opening and closing hours. In reality, I'm just not going to do that.

The Golf R is no M2, but it has a lot of bang for the buck, and if you want a powerful small, practical car, with a reasonably nice interior that isn't butt ugly, is unobtrusive, and available with a MT, your other choices are slim and none.

[heavyD^2]

If there could only be one car available to the world that would satisfy most people it would be the Golf R. For daily driving regardless of the climate it has the civility and utility of a regular Golf but on the track it’s basically in a dead heat with the best sport compacts and when equipped with a DSG it’s very quick in a straight line. The interior is as nice as you will ever see in the price range. You can argue it’s the best overall car in the world.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

If there could only be one car available to the world that would satisfy most people it would be the Golf R. For daily driving regardless of the climate it has the civility and utility of a regular Golf but on the track it’s basically in a dead heat with the best sport compacts and when equipped with a DSG it’s very quick in a straight line. The interior is as nice as you will ever see in the price range. You can argue it’s the best overall car in the world.

I don't think that it would satisfy "most people," being as most people, at least in the USA, are abandoning passenger cars in favor of SUVs, Crossovers, and Trucks :-)

The rest of what you write is correct, although the R is at least a little bit on the boring side, and the EPS needs a lot of work, if the car is to be judged as a performance car.

Like the M2, in the end, it needs to be compared to what else is out there for purchase in the segment, at this point in time. There are quite a few things I dislike about my M2, such as the EPS, the excess electronics & nannies, etc., that earlier BMWs (like the 1M) don't share, but you can't buy a new 1M now, that's ancient history. And unless you are willing to spend a lot more, the M2 doesn't really have any direct competition.

Golf R's competition is basically the defunct Ford RS, the Honda Civic R, the WRX, and the STi, with the 2 latter cars not even being hatches. The Golf R is a standout in that group, especially for being the only "adult-oriented" vehicle in the mix.

The window is closing on fun to drive cars, especially those available with a MT, and pretty soon you probably won't be able to buy either the M2 or the Golf R in a manual. I don't think that the reservations/limitations that I point out on either of these vehicles is likely to be addressed before they simply become unavailable with manuals, so we are on the last hurrah here.

[BlacMacJac]

As a current owner of a MK6 R and a MK4 R32 before that, I can vouch it really is a "good at everything, great at nothing" car. That is a compliment. I've had my MK6 for six years now, and it has been modded via APR to 2+ for about half that time. It is a wonderfully fun car to drive with plenty of ummph and go. Traction for days, 6spMT and a relative level of ease to drive. The stunning torque of the R32 was my favorite car I've ever owned, and I was initially not a fan of the 2.0 and turbo in this current car, but the mods improved all of that, significantly.

Like some of you, I'm on a list for a M2Comp - but I also am confused by the fact I could spend a lot less on a MK7 R and get a host of technology the M2 doesn't even have (recognize auto cruise and stop isn't a thing for everyone) as an option, and I could spend very little to create a car that would be, at least, as quick as the M2.

But here's the deal. The ONLY people that ever compliment my car, and this is an admittedly silly thing to be affected by, are 19 year olds. Since I'm approaching 50, the M2Comp just seems a proper progression.

Oh, and the MK8 is really just around the corner and my MK6 is paid off. !!

[champignon]

Originally Posted by BlacMacJac

As a current owner of a MK6 R and a MK4 R32 before that, I can vouch it really is a "good at everything, great at nothing" car. That is a compliment. I've had my MK6 for six years now, and it has been modded via APR to 2+ for about half that time. It is a wonderfully fun car to drive with plenty of ummph and go. Traction for days, 6spMT and a relative level of ease to drive. The stunning torque of the R32 was my favorite car I've ever owned, and I was initially not a fan of the 2.0 and turbo in this current car, but the mods improved all of that, significantly.

Like some of you, I'm on a list for a M2Comp - but I also am confused by the fact I could spend a lot less on a MK7 R and get a host of technology the M2 doesn't even have (recognize auto cruise and stop isn't a thing for everyone) as an option, and I could spend very little to create a car that would be, at least, as quick as the M2.

But here's the deal. The ONLY people that ever compliment my car, and this is an admittedly silly thing to be affected by, are 19 year olds. Since I'm approaching 50, the M2Comp just seems a proper progression.

Oh, and the MK8 is really just around the corner and my MK6 is paid off. !!

I've had exactly one person comment on my M2 since I bought it in March; I was parked outside a Verizon store and one of the workers complimented me on my "M6." Once I told him it was an M2, he lost interest.

I had one guy (whom I very vaguely knew) in my small town actually follow me home; he was driving a GTi and he wanted to compliment me on my R.

I have 2 vintage cars that attract WAY more attention than anything else; a 2003 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo, and a 2000 Z3M Coupe (Clownshoe). The Porsche, especially, gets comments everywhere that I park it, and I spent way less money on it used than I spent on my M2, and about the same price I spent on my R.

Bottom line is that if you want people to notice your car, the M2 doesn't have a lot of bang for the buck, given what it costs. Something vintage and unusual will beat it hands down.

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by BlacMacJac

As a current owner of a MK6 R and a MK4 R32 before that, I can vouch it really is a "good at everything, great at nothing" car. That is a compliment. I've had my MK6 for six years now, and it has been modded via APR to 2+ for about half that time. It is a wonderfully fun car to drive with plenty of ummph and go. Traction for days, 6spMT and a relative level of ease to drive. The stunning torque of the R32 was my favorite car I've ever owned, and I was initially not a fan of the 2.0 and turbo in this current car, but the mods improved all of that, significantly.

Like some of you, I'm on a list for a M2Comp - but I also am confused by the fact I could spend a lot less on a MK7 R and get a host of technology the M2 doesn't even have (recognize auto cruise and stop isn't a thing for everyone) as an option, and I could spend very little to create a car that would be, at least, as quick as the M2.

But here's the deal. The ONLY people that ever compliment my car, and this is an admittedly silly thing to be affected by, are 19 year olds. Since I'm approaching 50, the M2Comp just seems a proper progression.

Oh, and the MK8 is really just around the corner and my MK6 is paid off. !!

You need to get out to Wookies in the Woods, it will spark your enthusiasm for the GoRf again, and it will make you miss your R32 as well.

The power and moddability of the 2.0T are fantastic, but they just don't have the sound of the VR6. I wish VAG would put the I5T from the RS3 into a Golf, since we don't get the RS3 Hatchback over here...

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by champignon

I've had exactly one person comment on my M2 since I bought it in March; I was parked outside a Verizon store and one of the workers complimented me on my "M6." Once I told him it was an M2, he lost interest.

I had one guy (whom I very vaguely knew) in my small town actually follow me home; he was driving a GTi and he wanted to compliment me on my R.

I have 2 vintage cars that attract WAY more attention than anything else; a 2003 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo, and a 2000 Z3M Coupe (Clownshoe). The Porsche, especially, gets comments everywhere that I park it, and I spent way less money on it used than I spent on my M2, and about the same price I spent on my R.

Bottom line is that if you want people to notice your car, the M2 doesn't have a lot of bang for the buck, given what it costs. Something vintage and unusual will beat it hands down.

Some of this is due to your color choice... grays and whites and blacks are boring. LBB turns heads and gets compliments, I've had multiple people roll up to me at stop lights asking about it, and not even "typical enthusiasts" either.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by ZPrime

Some of this is due to your color choice... grays and whites and blacks are boring. LBB turns heads and gets compliments, I've had multiple people roll up to me at stop lights asking about it, and not even "typical enthusiasts" either.

My 2003 Turbo is black . . . . and by far it is the car that turns the most heads. Both my Z3M Coupe and my (current) R are also blue. I'm trading the R in on a 2018 R in gray, though :-)

Just sayin'

[BlacMacJac]

Originally Posted by champignon

Bottom line is that if you want people to notice your car, the M2 doesn't have a lot of bang for the buck, given what it costs. Something vintage and unusual will beat it hands down.

I didn't communicate that matter very well. The fact only kids notice and comment on the R isn't really what's important to me - I just wondered if it was an indicator that I should be considering a more "age appropriate" vehicle.

A friend came into town the other day and he drove my R. "Why in the world would you get rid of this? It is a totally blast to drive, and it's paid off!"

He has a point.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by BlacMacJac

I didn't communicate that matter very well. The fact only kids notice and comment on the R isn't really what's important to me - I just wondered if it was an indicator that I should be considering a more "age appropriate" vehicle.

A friend came into town the other day and he drove my R. "Why in the world would you get rid of this? It is a totally blast to drive, and it's paid off!"

He has a point.

I decided to get rid of my R before I took delivery of my M2. After getting the M2, I just couldn't pull the trigger on that maneuver. The car is simply too good for what it is, and too useful.

I am lucky that I do not have a wife who is forcing me to be rational. Instead, I am trading in my '16 R on an '18 the beginning of next week. It is the only really practical car I own, out of a large number of cars, so I'm doubling down on it :-)

[BlacMacJac]

Originally Posted by champignon

I decided to get rid of my R before I took delivery of my M2. After getting the M2, I just couldn't pull the trigger on that maneuver. The car is simply too good for what it is, and too useful.

I am lucky that I do not have a wife who is forcing me to be rational. Instead, I am trading in my '16 R on an '18 the beginning of next week. It is the only really practical car I own, out of a large number of cars, so I'm doubling down on it :-)

Sorry, I'm not comprehending. Are you saying that after getting the M2, you now would not go from on R to a M2? Or you have both?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by BlacMacJac

Sorry, I'm not comprehending. Are you saying that after getting the M2, you now would not go from on R to a M2? Or you have both?

I have both

[BlacMacJac]

Originally Posted by champignon

I have both

Ah, so you prefer the R to the M2, or simply that they are not comparable?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by BlacMacJac

Ah, so you prefer the R to the M2, or simply that they are not comparable?

I apologize for this lengthy explanation, in advance.

Firstly, I have kind of gone overboard on car ownership; I have 6, for 1 person. So you have to accept the idea from the start that I do not have a lot of common sense.

4 of my cars are what I would call "occasional," or limited use, or maybe cars of passion. One is a 1M, which needs no introduction. One is a 2003 Porsche 911 (996) Twin Turbo, now on its 6th owner (me). One is a 135is Convertible; I always wanted a convertible, but I don't live in an area where the weather cooperates for convertible use a lot of the time. The last collectible or semi-collectible, limited use vehicle is a 2000 Z3M Coupe, of which I am the 2nd owner, but only bought it 3 years ago. Other than for the 135is convertible, the other 3 cars are if anything appreciating, so although they do tie up some cash and do cost something to own, in the end I could get rid of them tomorrow and it will not have cost me very much money to have enjoyed them for a period of time.

That gets me to the cars I actually drive most of the time, and cars that I would drive in the winter on snow tires. I was driving a used 2013 135i coupe for about 3 years, which I traded in on my M2 in March. I intend to use the M2 more or less like I used the 135i coupe, e.g. all year, although maybe I'll be a little less likely to take it on substandard roads, for example for hiking. The Golf R has the advantage of 4 doors plus a hatch, extreme practicality, and AWD in the winter. It was a 2016 with relatively low mileage.

When I bought the M2 I thought that I would trade the Golf R in on the M2 also, e.g. trading in the 135i and Golf R, together. I wasn't offered much by the dealer on the Golf R, so I decided not to do that. Later, I thought about just selling it outright, because I assumed that the M2 would replace it. Over time and with more use of the M2 and the R, I decided that they were two different types of vehicles, not really competitive, and although not economically rational, I could justify keeping both. So rather than getting rid of the R, I instead traded it in on a new one on Monday, which only cost me around $11K for this vehicle with an MSRP north of $40K. In exchange I got the new facelift Mark 7.5, a color I prefer (gray), and a 6 year/72K mile warranty in place of a warranty that would have expired soon. It seemed worth it to me, since I think it is a rather unique offering in marketplace (grown up hot hatch) and I think that the manual transmission is likely to be discontinued soon, so I got a new one with a MT.

Bottom line is that I don't see anyone cross-shopping a Golf R with an M2. The M2 is an entry level luxury M car; the R is a gussied up Golf, with AWD and 292 HP. You can take the R to some dodgy and remote places you would probably not choose to take the M2, and I think it will be more competent in bad winter driving, although both will be fine with good snow tires.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

If there could only be one car available to the world that would satisfy most people it would be the Golf R. For daily driving regardless of the climate it has the civility and utility of a regular Golf but on the track it’s basically in a dead heat with the best sport compacts and when equipped with a DSG it’s very quick in a straight line. The interior is as nice as you will ever see in the price range. You can argue it’s the best overall car in the world.

I'd say Mercedes AMG E63S Wagon. The best all around car ever.

[ryem3]

2018 golf R, 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. M2 competition 0-60 in 4.0 seconds. Stage one tune adds about 65hp to the R, not sure how much faster it goes. Starts to be a real comparison. Of course the R is $42k and the M2 is $65k.

[MR_M2]

Originally Posted by ryem3

2018 golf R, 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. M2 competition 0-60 in 4.0 seconds. Stage one tune adds about 65hp to the R, not sure how much faster it goes. Starts to be a real comparison. Of course the R is $42k and the M2 is $65k.

Plus AWD will actually hook up with the tune. M2 is going to be squiggly after a tune.