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      12-10-2018, 07:40 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
I have not seen a proper comparison with and without DP. But DP will reduce EGT in any case, and thus decrease in cylinder temp, which is critical over repeated pulls. Also stock cat will die quickly with heavy track use.
Makes sense.

Last questions (for now), when running these maps vs the Dinan piggyback, do you have a feel for the power gains? Do you see any long term engine reliability impacts from the BM3 maps?

Thanks again.
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      12-10-2018, 08:38 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Makes sense.

Last questions (for now), when running these maps vs the Dinan piggyback, do you have a feel for the power gains? Do you see any long term engine reliability impacts from the BM3 maps?

Thanks again.
I used Dinan Elite Stage 1 for a short while. I don't really know how my car responded to the tune without datalogging it.

Then I switched to BM3 and loaded its very first version of M2 OTS which has the huge down low boost/torque. The sensation is massive, it had definitely more drama than current OTS but was not necessarily faster. From log of these early versions, my car was actually very happy with everything always maxed out and on target. That is something that rarely can be said with piggyback, from my experience with JB4 on my previous car. In Nov of 2017, BM3 map editor found a lot of new tables and with M2 OTS they shifted their focus from down low to top end.

As for reliability and consistency, for any given aggressiveness, a good flash is way better than any piggyback. To be absolutely safe, you just need to log at high ambient temp and IAT and choose the map that your car responds best to. That's also how I test my stage two turbo map.
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      12-11-2018, 05:22 AM   #47
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So with all those mods on stock turbo, how much whp do you think you make?
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      01-17-2019, 02:57 AM   #48
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Reviving this thread for a quick question.

Sean, do you think this progressive boost map layout would work with a tte460 instead of a dinan turbo as well?

I compared the dinan and the tte turbo and i saw that the tte460 changes hot and cold side of the turbo whereas dinan only redesigns the compressor wheel and leaving hot side stock.
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      01-18-2019, 12:51 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeni View Post
Reviving this thread for a quick question.

Sean, do you think this progressive boost map layout would work with a tte460 instead of a dinan turbo as well?

I compared the dinan and the tte turbo and i saw that the tte460 changes hot and cold side of the turbo whereas dinan only redesigns the compressor wheel and leaving hot side stock.
TTE460 is a tremendous value for money. It's significantly faster than any stage one turbo while introducing barely noticeable delay in spool-up. My friend (TTE460@17psi, Halim custom map) easily walked away from my Dinan turbo (18psi UP TOP, maxed out on pump gas) in winter of 2017. TTE460' dominance played a huge role in my decision of moving up to the GP500 turbo.

TTE460 not only spools much quicker than PS2, but also I suspect is close on top end power under same high boost (around 22psi) supported by ethanol and meth.

Yes, with STG2 turbo, you can use STG1 turbo map or even stock turbo OTS. EWG is extremely flexible and good at duty circle control. The same thing cannot be said to PWG N55 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas View Post
So with all those mods on stock turbo, how much whp do you think you make?
FBO + stock turbo + pump gas would be 400whp max, but that wouldn't be possible from my dyno as it reads some 15-20whp lower.
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      07-02-2021, 06:23 PM   #50
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So when you upgraded Sean you said you needed to update ISTA? Why is that please? Can a garage throw the turbo on for me and then I flash a custom tune?

Would dorch stage one HPFP get anymore from the stage 1 turbo or is it octane limited still?

I'm not gonna rule out stage 1 I think you went the right wayz some others do think like you so why not recommend stage 2 if those characteristics are what you are looking for

If you did it again would you go for TTE460? I can't seem to find Dinan stage 1 turbo anywhere? Thanks

Or is it this one 'big turbo', stage is not denoted...

https://www.dinancars.com/products/e...rts/D310-0110A

Last edited by 3t3p; 07-03-2021 at 04:55 AM..
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      07-03-2021, 05:47 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
So when you upgraded Sean you said you needed to update ISTA? Why is that please? Can a garage throw the turbo on for me and then I flash a custom tune?

Would dorch stage one HPFP get anymore from the stage 1 turbo or is it octane limited still?

I'm not gonna rule out stage 1 I think you went the right wayz some others do think like you so why not recommend stage 2 if those characteristics are what you are looking for

If you did it again would you go for TTE460? I can't seem to find Dinan stage 1 turbo anywhere? Thanks

Or is it this one 'big turbo', stage is not denoted...

https://www.dinancars.com/products/e...rts/D310-0110A
Surprised this thread got revived.

The ISTA in this case is just the BMW standard check process to ensure that wastegate works mechanically correct. The mechanic that works with bmw stuff should be able to perform the ISTA properly.

STG1 turbo definitely benefits from hpfp upgrade even on E30 ots map, more so on custom ones. With ethanol and good cooling, Octane is no issue.

I'm not sure what you're really asking regarding stg1 and STG2 turbo. STG2 has been all along a bottom and top end trade off. Like everything in life, people take for granted and underrate what's already available and working (fast spooling), and take risk to change and fix what's lacking (top end) when they can.

What would do differently? The answer varies. I'm sticking to pump gas under 18psi so that tte460 and gp500 don't make much difference. TTE could've just spooled faster and costed less, with minimal peak power loss. Or, Factoring in how I used the car for the past 2 years - as a commuter, Dinan turbo would be perfectly fine too. But, for me, the STG2 has been still the correct path, to my philosophy - make happy power and no push - exactly how my M2 have been running perfectly 5 years - runs like a stock car, zero down time and not even a single error code whatsoever.

You must have "been there, done that" to decide what's the correct path for YOU. Do the STG2, because you will need it at some point anyway, even if it's ultimately wrong for you.
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      07-03-2021, 10:48 AM   #52
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Yeh my grammar there was shoddy at best.

What I mean is reading your posts you felt you needed to defend your choice to go to stage 1 but why? It's what you wanted on your car. You wanted top end and same spool time (you got better on the latter I believe?) which is what you got.


I wouldn't want to run meth, ethanol or have the spool lag from stage 2 so why should I go for it? I don't even want north of 450hp as it's not deployable so why go stage 2 turbo?

What is the better stage one turbo for pump petrol do you think PS1, Dinan, TTE? I believe you've said stock HPFP isn't a limiting factor until stage 2 turbos?

Thanks for clarifying the ISTA thing, I hope my LCI instrument cluster retrofit doesn't block this coding like it did when I tried to update istep!?
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      07-03-2021, 12:10 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Yeh my grammar there was shoddy at best.

What I mean is reading your posts you felt you needed to defend your choice to go to stage 1 but why? It's what you wanted on your car. You wanted top end and same spool time (you got better on the latter I believe?) which is what you got.


I wouldn't want to run meth, ethanol or have the spool lag from stage 2 so why should I go for it? I don't even want north of 450hp as it's not deployable so why go stage 2 turbo?

What is the better stage one turbo for pump petrol do you think PS1, Dinan, TTE? I believe you've said stock HPFP isn't a limiting factor until stage 2 turbos?

Thanks for clarifying the ISTA thing, I hope my LCI instrument cluster retrofit doesn't block this coding like it did when I tried to update istep!?
All stg1 turbo are the same. But the TTE is a legit STG2.

I'm not trying to defend stg1 turbo, quite the opposite I did the right thing to upgrade to STG2.

If you're using US pump fuel, don't bother with hpfp and turbo, you're by far octane limited.
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      07-03-2021, 02:58 PM   #54
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Ah thought you were intent on keeping the stage 1 did you have a thread on STG2? I do like stock response tbh, feels closest to NA.

When I tuned stage 2 and 2+ MHD (before my servotronic motor short circuited) I could feel spool lag in some situations lower in the rev range, to be expected I suppose but I don't like it.

So you like TTE460 as a good stage 2 turbo?

I'm UK so decent fuel up to 99RON but will be in NZ soon I think they have 98RON Max. Ordering in parts will be harder with perhaps less options. I don't want a laggy car but did really enjoy stage 2+ MHD power, car flowed/flew down the road nicely
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      07-04-2021, 12:40 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Ah thought you were intent on keeping the stage 1 did you have a thread on STG2? I do like stock response tbh, feels closest to NA.

When I tuned stage 2 and 2+ MHD (before my servotronic motor short circuited) I could feel spool lag in some situations lower in the rev range, to be expected I suppose but I don't like it.

So you like TTE460 as a good stage 2 turbo?

I'm UK so decent fuel up to 99RON but will be in NZ soon I think they have 98RON Max. Ordering in parts will be harder with perhaps less options. I don't want a laggy car but did really enjoy stage 2+ MHD power, car flowed/flew down the road nicely
Upgraded to G Power 500 back in 2018.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1501569

If you already feel laggy with stock, don't bother with turbo upgrade.
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      07-04-2021, 04:53 AM   #56
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Thanks for the link just read the whole thing, points for effort!

Think when I am in New Zealand easiest best option will be Dinan shipped from the states as can just buy the complete unit yes? Easiest for a garage that's new to me to also do a simple install.

Then get a remote custom tune through MHD platform.
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      07-04-2021, 08:13 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Thanks for the link just read the whole thing, points for effort!

Think when I am in New Zealand easiest best option will be Dinan shipped from the states as can just buy the complete unit yes? Easiest for a garage that's new to me to also do a simple install.

Then get a remote custom tune through MHD platform.
https://x-ph.com/vargas-n55-stage-1-jb-upgrade-kit-new/ Supposedly this is the same turbo as the Dinan.
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      07-04-2021, 09:48 AM   #58
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I’d say PS2 is the ticket.

450whp on 93oct (99Ron?) off the shelf tune, a proper powerband that extends to redline, and it’s affordable. I do hear there is a bit more lag, but for the trade offs, it looks worth it (in my opinion)
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      07-04-2021, 11:08 AM   #59
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Only just learning of Vargas, what's their rep?

Edit: Just saw a brief YT video interview with owner of Vargas, doesn't come across too well. Comments section was brutal reading, not favourable at all..

Last edited by 3t3p; 07-04-2021 at 04:22 PM..
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      07-17-2021, 05:29 PM   #60
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@SeanWRT was that 414 peak WHP you made?

That's like 470 at crank/engine?!

Dinan S2 is 446hp?
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      07-19-2021, 01:43 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
@SeanWRT was that 414 peak WHP you made?

That's like 470 at crank/engine?!

Dinan S2 is 446hp?
Can say any number for the crank as you like, but only the before and after delta matters.

Not sure if Dinan has a dedicated tune to STG1 turbo. Even if they do, I'm not a believer in Dinan's claimed power number. With even the high potential S55 engine, they failed to deliver as advertised. M2 Dinan S2 on piggyback, with good octane, is close to stock turbo FBO on flash tune in reality.

Lastly, there is the power consistency in play, which most often gets ignored. For example, this STG1 setup of mine back in 2017 made 414whp and mid 8s in 100-200kph (M4 CS equivalent). However, all was achieved in winter. Outside of cold season, it at best dip into high 8s and in summer it struggles at 9s flat. The restriction for me is the pump gas RON98 octane.

Whenever the car is tuned to limit on one dimension, especially on octane/fueling/turbo, the performance gets highly subjective to ambient variances. It's kinda stupid you gets 410whp on dyno with 93oct on a cold day, knowing it can't really do it on track without half tank of race gas.

BMW load based tuning philosophy (factory tuning) aims to be able to adjust to all ambient variants (air density, temp, humidity(?)) and perform similarly.
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      07-19-2021, 02:48 PM   #62
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Agree Dyno change is what matters, however it can give a user going in cold rough expectations of what the car may drive like Vs stock.

Ignore Dinan piggyback or tune then, do as you did their STG1 turbo and custom tune netted a good result with 98RON and stock HPFP?

That's really what I should be asking, cheers
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      07-19-2021, 11:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Agree Dyno change is what matters, however it can give a user going in cold rough expectations of what the car may drive like Vs stock.

Ignore Dinan piggyback or tune then, do as you did their STG1 turbo and custom tune netted a good result with 98RON and stock HPFP?

That's really what I should be asking, cheers
You don't really need custom tuning, if you don't have strong octane. Been thru all these years, the OTS maps are pretty solid. I doubt the stock turbo be much of a restriction at these power level to begin with. It's just a matter of 10-15whp you're looking at, not worth investing turbo+custom tuning.

That being said, with Ethanol/HPFP, you should be looking at turbo upgrade.
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      07-20-2021, 12:51 AM   #64
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So could put on STG1 turbo and use OTS stage 2 software for example? And it will give me a a better top end as the turbo flows better and EWG 'sorts it all out' for you?

I wouldn't be running E30 or meth or anything just pump gas. Is the HPFP up to it/will you gain by upgrading it for pump gas only?

Last edited by 3t3p; 07-26-2021 at 11:27 AM..
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      01-12-2022, 01:13 PM   #65
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BMW M2 Dinan Big Turbo

Those are some significant gains on the dyno sheet with only a Dinan Big Turbo install. I have a 2017 M2 with the following mods:

Dinan Big Turbo, Dinan Intercooler, Dinan Cold Ait Intake, Dinan Resonator Delete, Dinan Exhaust, VRSF High Flow Cat with Bootmod3 stage 2 tune and didn't even come close to those numbers.

I maxed out at 388 whp and 400 torque. What map did you use? I believe my tuner used stage 2 with a high-flow cat and intercooler. Not certain if the map contained a turbo feature but would speculate it does based on being a stage 2 tune.

What are your thoughts? How did you get to be so fast?

I have attached a base dyno prior to Dinan Big Turbo and VRSF midpipe. I was running the other mods above with a Dinan Stage 1 tune prior to Big Turbo and VRSF midpipe with dyno results in the second attachment. I did pick up usable power with this tune and gained 60 whp in the upper rpm range.

@bootmod3 proTUNING Freaks tuningfreaks -

What tune do you recommend based on supporting mods and engine reliability? I plan on keeping this car long-term.

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      01-12-2022, 01:17 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingRAZrock View Post
Those are some significant gains on the dyno sheet with only a Dinan Big Turbo install. I have a 2017 M2 with the following mods:

Dinan Big Turbo, Dinan Intercooler, Dinan Cold Ait Intake, Dinan Resonator Delete, Dinan Exhaust, VRSF High Flow Cat with Bootmod3 stage 2 tune and didn't even come close to those numbers.

I maxed out at 388 whp and 400 torque. What map did you use? I believe my tuner used stage 2 with a high-flow cat and intercooler. Not certain if the map contained a turbo feature but would speculate it does based on being a stage 2 tune.

What are your thoughts? How did you get to be so fast?

I have attached a base dyno prior to Dinan Big Turbo and VRSF midpipe. I was running the other mods above with a Dinan Stage 1 tune prior to Big Turbo and VRSF midpipe with dyno results in the second attachment. I did pick up usable power with this tune and gained 60 whp in the upper rpm range.

@bootmod3 proTUNING Freaks tuningfreaks -

What tune do you recommend based on supporting mods and engine reliability? I plan on keeping this car long-term.

Attachment 2786447

Attachment 2786448

Attachment 2786449

Attachment 2786450

Attachment 2786451

Attachment 2786452

Attachment 2786453
Grab a Dorch Stg 2 HPFP, add some E85 or Racegas, flash the Stg 2+ map, and hold on: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774687
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