BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > First impressions of BM3 Stage 1

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-13-2019, 09:57 AM   #23
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

PTF has links to various threads in their FAQ discussing tune results, but I don’t see any stock Stg 1 91 threads: https://bootmod3.atlassian.net/wiki/...-+bootmod3+FAQ

I’d guess it’s probably a little milder than the Dinan Stg 1 gains, not bc of the BM3 Stg 1 91 tune, but bc you really need at least 93 to get much more power out of the car. For example, the Dinan Stg 1 requires 93 for any power gain.

If any of you 93 guys want to try a more conservative route, I’m selling my Dinan Stages 1-4 tune. Just PM me if interested.

Last edited by ZM2; 01-13-2019 at 10:05 AM.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 03:06 PM   #24
akkando
Colonel
2138
Rep
2,988
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 LBB DCT
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
I tried asking a similar q above. There doesn't seem to be much data except "butt dyno". The S55/F80 forums had a lot more info available. I'm most surprised that I can't find a few dynos with just a 93 tune. I have read a lot of people saying the N55 is maxed out in terms of just adding boost but in another thread someone noted that that thinking changes with the BM3 so not really sure.
I'm guessing you are gaining enough tq and hp in the low to mid range that it feels like a noticeably faster and more responsive car, BUT you don't gain much peak power at all. Having not see a before and after dyno I don't know. Perhaps someone with an M235i and BM3 has some real numbers that would shed some light on what it would really do for an M2. I bet you get better results on quality 93 at least.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 03:34 PM   #25
Taskmaster
Major General
Taskmaster's Avatar
Japan
2268
Rep
8,818
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

I just saw a dyno of the Verion 6 BM3 and it almost made 400whp. I think a big thing people can do to help the top end and keep IATs down would be a turbo inlet.

__________________
M235i 6MT - intake, downpipe, intercooler, JB4 - Coming soon: Pure Inlet, MILVS, BPC tune.

Buy my E9X stuff: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540470
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 03:42 PM   #26
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
I just saw a dyno of the Verion 6 BM3 and it almost made 400whp. I think a big thing people can do to help the top end and keep IATs down would be a turbo inlet.

That’s Stage 2 93, not Stage 1 91.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 04:55 PM   #27
Taskmaster
Major General
Taskmaster's Avatar
Japan
2268
Rep
8,818
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
That’s Stage 2 93, not Stage 1 91.
Like, I get it. I do. But we are talking a handful of HP here, seriously.

Give me a few minutes and I'll post some dynos for you.
__________________
M235i 6MT - intake, downpipe, intercooler, JB4 - Coming soon: Pure Inlet, MILVS, BPC tune.

Buy my E9X stuff: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540470

Last edited by Taskmaster; 01-14-2019 at 05:19 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 05:21 PM   #28
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
1263
Rep
1,516
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Dinan claimed that the M2 didn't have much juice left to squeeze out due to its hardware limitations..

How are these guy getting 400WHP on a Stage 1 tune :


.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 05:47 PM   #29
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Like, I get it. I do. But we are talking a handful of HP here, seriously.

Give me a few minutes and I'll post some dynos for you.
There’s a big difference in power between Stage 1 91 & Stage 2 93.

No one seems to have a dyno of Stage 1 91.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 05:54 PM   #30
Taskmaster
Major General
Taskmaster's Avatar
Japan
2268
Rep
8,818
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
There’s a big difference in power between Stage 1 91 & Stage 2 93.

No one seems to have a dyno of Stage 1 91.
Oh, you mean stage 1?

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...18&postcount=5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
Stage II
2016 M235i auto M performance exhaust and AFE cold air intake
Further down, Bob explains that the downpipe doesn't change much:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
No downpipe, just muffler and intake. Downpipe doesnt really net much to anything on these cars at that power level. I've posted a 2015 335i (makes less than the m235i b/c it has a more aggressive tune from the factory) With just our stage 2 tune and downpipe.

EDIT: I posted the timestamp to show we did this all in the sameday.

VF has their own stage one tune -
http://www.vfengineering.com/bmw/m2-ecu-tuning/




I would skip the middle man and just get a BPC tune (like I'm doing)
__________________
M235i 6MT - intake, downpipe, intercooler, JB4 - Coming soon: Pure Inlet, MILVS, BPC tune.

Buy my E9X stuff: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540470
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 06:02 PM   #31
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Oh, you mean stage 1?

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...18&postcount=5



Further down, Bob explains that the downpipe doesn't change much:




VF has their own stage one tune -
http://www.vfengineering.com/bmw/m2-ecu-tuning/




I would skip the middle man and just get a BPC tune (like I'm doing)
OP is discussing BM3 Stg 1 91.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 07:08 PM   #32
Taskmaster
Major General
Taskmaster's Avatar
Japan
2268
Rep
8,818
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
OP is discussing BM3 Stg 1 91.
I know, but why not give him all the options?

It looks like Stage 1 from BPC, which is admittedly probably a more aggressive than the BM3, still brings the output from 330whp to 360-370whp - which is really good.

Honestly, it depends on your goals. You're never going to reach 400whp without FBO, but if you're looking for a good set it and forget it option, a tune will still provide a good increase in power.
__________________
M235i 6MT - intake, downpipe, intercooler, JB4 - Coming soon: Pure Inlet, MILVS, BPC tune.

Buy my E9X stuff: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540470
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 07:11 PM   #33
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
I know, but why not give him all the options?

It looks like Stage 1 from BPC, which is admittedly probably a more aggressive than the BM3, still brings the output from 330whp to 360-370whp - which is really good.

Honestly, it depends on your goals. You're never going to reach 400whp without FBO, but if you're looking for a good set it and forget it option, a tune will still provide a good increase in power.
What is the octane on those tunes? 91 vs 93 is the big issue in this thread.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2019, 09:58 PM   #34
akkando
Colonel
2138
Rep
2,988
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 LBB DCT
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
I know, but why not give him all the options?

It looks like Stage 1 from BPC, which is admittedly probably a more aggressive than the BM3, still brings the output from 330whp to 360-370whp - which is really good.

Honestly, it depends on your goals. You're never going to reach 400whp without FBO, but if you're looking for a good set it and forget it option, a tune will still provide a good increase in power.
I think what we are looking for here is a dyno with BM3 Stage 1.
Appreciate 1
ZM2561.50

      01-14-2019, 10:38 PM   #35
ecitizen
Private First Class
34
Rep
163
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

I'm getting my IC (Wagner EVO 2 Comp) and charge pipe (AA) installed tomorrow and will move to Stage 2, 91 Octane so I'll let you all know my impressions then. The only thing that is really annoying me about the BM3 tune is I can't get the burbles to work while ASD is enabled which makes no sense to me. When I disable ASD, no issues. I put in a ticket and the tech at BM3 said he can fix it, but it's pain to find a time that works for both of us to sync. Anyway, probably a minor issue and maybe a positive for those who like to run with ASD disabled.
Appreciate 1
ZM2561.50

      01-14-2019, 10:44 PM   #36
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm getting my IC (Wagner EVO 2 Comp) and charge pipe (AA) installed tomorrow and will move to Stage 2, 91 Octane so I'll let you all know my impressions then. The only thing that is really annoying me about the BM3 tune is I can't get the burbles to work while ASD is enabled which makes no sense to me. When I disable ASD, no issues. I put in a ticket and the tech at BM3 said he can fix it, but it's pain to find a time that works for both of us to sync. Anyway, probably a minor issue and maybe a positive for those who like to run with ASD disabled.
Nice. There are some BM3 Stage 2 91 guys running 400whp, so should be a big bump. Let us know how it goes.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2019, 03:42 AM   #37
SeanWRT
Lieutenant Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
1954
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm getting my IC (Wagner EVO 2 Comp) and charge pipe (AA) installed tomorrow and will move to Stage 2, 91 Octane so I'll let you all know my impressions then. The only thing that is really annoying me about the BM3 tune is I can't get the burbles to work while ASD is enabled which makes no sense to me. When I disable ASD, no issues. I put in a ticket and the tech at BM3 said he can fix it, but it's pain to find a time that works for both of us to sync. Anyway, probably a minor issue and maybe a positive for those who like to run with ASD disabled.
That's exactly why there is no STG1 results available - no one stays there (not that I think they shouldn't, for the record), no mention of dyno and documentation of the results.

Once you start to look and hear and think, you end up moving up to FBO STG2.

In fact, STG1 and 2 are of little difference software wise.
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 1
Dabozo514.50

      01-15-2019, 06:47 AM   #38
PackPride85
Major
United_States
706
Rep
1,153
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm getting my IC (Wagner EVO 2 Comp) and charge pipe (AA) installed tomorrow and will move to Stage 2, 91 Octane so I'll let you all know my impressions then. The only thing that is really annoying me about the BM3 tune is I can't get the burbles to work while ASD is enabled which makes no sense to me. When I disable ASD, no issues. I put in a ticket and the tech at BM3 said he can fix it, but it's pain to find a time that works for both of us to sync. Anyway, probably a minor issue and maybe a positive for those who like to run with ASD disabled.
That's exactly why there is no STG1 results available - no one stays there (not that I think they shouldn't, for the record), no mention of dyno and documentation of the results.

Once you start to look and hear and think, you end up moving up to FBO STG2.

In fact, STG1 and 2 are of little difference software wise.
Is it wise to run stage 2 with just an ic and no dp upgrade?
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2019, 09:45 AM   #39
SeanWRT
Lieutenant Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
1954
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm getting my IC (Wagner EVO 2 Comp) and charge pipe (AA) installed tomorrow and will move to Stage 2, 91 Octane so I'll let you all know my impressions then. The only thing that is really annoying me about the BM3 tune is I can't get the burbles to work while ASD is enabled which makes no sense to me. When I disable ASD, no issues. I put in a ticket and the tech at BM3 said he can fix it, but it's pain to find a time that works for both of us to sync. Anyway, probably a minor issue and maybe a positive for those who like to run with ASD disabled.
That's exactly why there is no STG1 results available - no one stays there (not that I think they shouldn't, for the record), no mention of dyno and documentation of the results.

Once you start to look and hear and think, you end up moving up to FBO STG2.

In fact, STG1 and 2 are of little difference software wise.
Is it wise to run stage 2 with just an ic and no dp upgrade?
Can you do that? Yes you can. Heck ZM2 has been even running 17psi up top with bigger turbo on stock downpipe and his map can potentially be the OTS for the stage one turbo setup.

Is stock downpipe holding you back power wise? Yes, it is, but at these boost level we're really talking 10-15whp difference in peak power from 600 cell to fully decat.

Is using stock downpipe wise? Depends on how hard you push it. On street I don't see any issue whatsoever. On track sure thing in-cylinder temp will climb up more quickly and can mess up with ignition.

That being said, at the end of day, you touch cat, especially if go decat, you risk screwing up the stock refinement, as it'd be abnormally loud and smelling.
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2019, 09:47 AM   #40
PackPride85
Major
United_States
706
Rep
1,153
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm getting my IC (Wagner EVO 2 Comp) and charge pipe (AA) installed tomorrow and will move to Stage 2, 91 Octane so I'll let you all know my impressions then. The only thing that is really annoying me about the BM3 tune is I can't get the burbles to work while ASD is enabled which makes no sense to me. When I disable ASD, no issues. I put in a ticket and the tech at BM3 said he can fix it, but it's pain to find a time that works for both of us to sync. Anyway, probably a minor issue and maybe a positive for those who like to run with ASD disabled.
That's exactly why there is no STG1 results available - no one stays there (not that I think they shouldn't, for the record), no mention of dyno and documentation of the results.

Once you start to look and hear and think, you end up moving up to FBO STG2.

In fact, STG1 and 2 are of little difference software wise.
Is it wise to run stage 2 with just an ic and no dp upgrade?
Can you do that? Yes you can. Heck ZM2 has been running 17psi up top with bigger turbo on stock downpipe and his map can potentially be the OTS for the stage one turbo setup.

Is stock downpipe holding you back power wise? Yes, it is, but at these boost level we're really talking 10-15whp difference in peak power from 600 cell to fully decat.

Is using stock downpipe wise in such cases? Depends on how hard you push it. On street I don't see any issue whatsoever. On track sure thing in-cylinder temp will climb up more quickly and can mess up with ignition.

That being said, at the end of day, you touch cat, especially if go decat, you risk screwing up the stock refinement, as it'd be abnormally loud and smelling.
Thanks that's what I was thinking. Fine for street but for thrashing at track safer to drop down to stage 1 (or even stock map).
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2019, 10:10 AM   #41
ZM2
Captain
562
Rep
937
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Thanks that's what I was thinking. Fine for street but for thrashing at track safer to drop down to stage 1 (or even stock map).
This brings up a good question.

Even with BM3, the DME should still have all the safeguards to pull timing and power to prevent knock, high temps, and engine damage, correct?

If you’re running Stage 2, DPs & ICs help, but they’re essentially just buying you time before the computer starts pulling power, so there’s no damage?
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2019, 10:12 AM   #42
SeanWRT
Lieutenant Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
1954
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Thanks that's what I was thinking. Fine for street but for thrashing at track safer to drop down to stage 1 (or even stock map).
M2 stock turbo is not capable of handling stage two tune (or any tune with 16+psi up top) on track, whatever bolt-ons you have.

At these boost level up top, the poor factory snail is just searing the air charging and exhaust components to gain some 10-20whp (over STG1 tune) that lasts a short period of time. which most people are happy seeing on dyno.
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2019, 10:16 AM   #43
PackPride85
Major
United_States
706
Rep
1,153
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Thanks that's what I was thinking. Fine for street but for thrashing at track safer to drop down to stage 1 (or even stock map).
This brings up a good question.

Even with BM3, the DME should still have all the safeguards to pull timing and power to prevent knock, high temps, and engine damage, correct?

If you’re running Stage 2, DPs & ICs help, but they’re essentially just buying you time before the computer starts pulling power, so there’s no damage?
Except it has to see that potential damage to pull power....better off not getting into a situation where it has to react.
Appreciate 1
ZM2561.50

      01-15-2019, 10:41 AM   #44
SeanWRT
Lieutenant Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
1954
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Thanks that's what I was thinking. Fine for street but for thrashing at track safer to drop down to stage 1 (or even stock map).
This brings up a good question.

Even with BM3, the DME should still have all the safeguards to pull timing and power to prevent knock, high temps, and engine damage, correct?

If you're running Stage 2, DPs & ICs help, but they're essentially just buying you time before the computer starts pulling power, so there's no damage?
Upgraded hardwares are not just buying you time. It can not only cool it quicker (big IC), but also make less heat (big turbo) and dissipate heat quicker (big turbo and high flow downpipe) in the first place, to the point where cooling management capabilities is strong enough to run cool all the time.
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 1
ZM2561.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST