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      02-15-2020, 08:08 AM   #155
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Here's to hoping that the next gen M2 is offered with a s58 but I just know if it does, we're going to have pay up dearly, for the privilege.. Get ready for a 65k base M2, no sunroof..

I feel like modern automobiles have plateaued in power and handling, I wonder what's the main appeal the future BMW M cars, for for price of admission; It will be interesting to see how it plays out..
Car could be around $6000 more than today's price just due to inflation.
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      02-15-2020, 08:11 AM   #156
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Here's to hoping that the next gen M2 is offered with a s58 but I just know if it does, we're going to have pay up dearly, for the privilege.. Get ready for a 65k base M2, no sunroof..

I feel like modern automobiles have plateaued in power and handling, I wonder what's the main appeal the future BMW M cars, for for price of admission; It will be interesting to see how it plays out..
I agree, 0-60 times have dropped to a point that they are pointless. No one typically drives 180mph. I expected the direction to start stepping back in size but increasing luxury in smaller cars. Tech seems to be the focus. Autonomy, electric, and personal integration with that tech. I.e. facial recognition triggers playlist based upon person, time of day, and perceived "mood".
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      02-15-2020, 09:31 AM   #157
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I wonder what's the main appeal the future BMW M cars, for for price of admission...
Rattle free driving would be a good place to start...
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      02-15-2020, 10:33 AM   #158
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I hope they offer salsa red as a color
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      02-15-2020, 10:52 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Here's to hoping that the next gen M2 is offered with a s58 but I just know if it does, we're going to have pay up dearly, for the privilege.. Get ready for a 65k base M2, no sunroof..

I feel like modern automobiles have plateaued in power and handling, I wonder what's the main appeal the future BMW M cars, for for price of admission; It will be interesting to see how it plays out..
I agree, 0-60 times have dropped to a point that they are pointless. No one typically drives 180mph. I expected the direction to start stepping back in size but increasing luxury in smaller cars. Tech seems to be the focus. Autonomy, electric, and personal integration with that tech. I.e. facial recognition triggers playlist based upon person, time of day, and perceived "mood".
For reals; the highest speed limit here, in all of NYC, is a maximum 50mph and the cops over here don't use radar guns; they just sit by the side of road, watch you breeze by and "visually estimate" your speed, then just lie in traffic court that they confirmed your speed with radar. So if you "look" your vehicle is moving quickly, you get an unwarranted ticket but I digress..

The point is, a faster vehicle is really not really necessary, no point in bragging about your 0 - 60 times, when the limit is 50

I know the weight is not going to decrease in any kind of meaningful way but I would like to see some creature like Adaptive Suspension, toggle-able exhaust volume, night vision and red leather offered..

I'm sticking with the BMW brand because they're the only vehicle left, in my pay grade, to offer a manual transmission option but I know this might possible be last run.. #Sad

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...for-this-world
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      02-15-2020, 10:59 AM   #160
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I hope they offer salsa red as a color
BMW paint color codes since 1960: see here.
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      02-15-2020, 11:06 AM   #161
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As safety, security, and traffic congestion become higher priorities I easily see "independent driving" becoming regulated. A novelty, if you will, nor permitted within city limits. Non autonomous vehicles will not be allowed on the roads because they will not communicate with the cars and world around them. Maybe not in my lifetime, but I expect to taste a flavor of this before Im in the ground.
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      02-15-2020, 11:58 AM   #162
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Plus the new one might come with a b58 with less power then the current m2 and heavier!
If they are launching a "regular" M2 and not a Competition model, I wouldn't be surprised if they left some horsepower on the table pending release of a Comp model. Let's not forget that the current M2 is a "Competition" version. The new M2 may have slightly less or about the same horsepower as the current Comp.
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      02-15-2020, 12:19 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
the cops over here don't use radar guns; they just sit by the side of road, watch you breeze by and "visually estimate" your speed, then just lie in traffic court that they confirmed your speed with radar.
What you describe is the proper use of Radar. Cops are trained to estimate speed. Radar is confirmation ONLY.
As far as calling all cops liars
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      02-15-2020, 12:33 PM   #164
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All cops are not liers, but they are people with faults like everyone. I haven't been unjustly treated by law enforcement for a long time. However as a 18-21 year old in a small town, I can tell you that I was harrased unjustly and that shouldn't happen.
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      02-15-2020, 12:34 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Plus the new one might come with a b58 with less power then the current m2 and heavier!
If they are launching a "regular" M2 and not a Competition model, I wouldn't be surprised if they left some horsepower on the table pending release of a Comp model. Let's not forget that the current M2 is a "Competition" version. The new M2 may have slightly less or about the same horsepower as the current Comp.
It's the only model you can buy, it's the base model.
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      02-15-2020, 12:44 PM   #166
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It's the only model you can buy, it's the base model.
I know that, but the reason for it is that the N55 wouldn't make enough horsepower with the OPF choker in the exhaust of EU cars. So they just got rid of the M2 N55 all together. AFAIK, BMW has sold regular M cars next to Comp models in the past. I doubt that they will start with a Comp model with the new M2.
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      02-15-2020, 01:36 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
If they are launching a "regular" M2 and not a Competition model, I wouldn't be surprised if they left some horsepower on the table pending release of a Comp model. Let's not forget that the current M2 is a "Competition" version. The new M2 may have slightly less or about the same horsepower as the current Comp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I doubt that they will start with a Comp model with the new M2.
Production of G80 M3/M3C and G82 M4/M4C: all start at the same time (November 2020).

Let's wait and see whether BMW does the same with the G87 M2/M2C in December 2022.
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      02-15-2020, 01:36 PM   #168
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Quote:
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Plus the new one might come with a b58 with less power then the current m2 and heavier!
See here:
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Once the F2x and F3x end, the B58 + 6MT is almost surely into the history books.
S58 + 6MT is what's left. Once that's gone, it's all done.
B58/S58 and the future G87 M2/M2C (2023): hm, N55/S55 of F87 M2/M2C déjà-vu likelihood or straightaway a detuned S58 of the G80 M3 / G82 M4 ?
I strongly suspect they’ll use the S58 in the G87 from the start because it allows them to go to a single I6 + 6MT configuration that covers everything. In fact, the business case for keeping the manual M cars for a (presumably) final generation was likely built around sharing the same engine/transmission across the three (M2/M3/M4) vehicle programs.
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      02-15-2020, 01:52 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Plus the new one might come with a b58 with less power then the current m2 and heavier!
See here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Once the F2x and F3x end, the B58 + 6MT is almost surely into the history books.
S58 + 6MT is what's left. Once that's gone, it's all done.
B58/S58 and the future G87 M2/M2C (2023): hm, N55/S55 of F87 M2/M2C déjà-vu likelihood or straightaway a detuned S58 of the G80 M3 / G82 M4 ?
I strongly suspect they'll use the S58 in the G87 from the start because it allows them to go to a single I6 + 6MT configuration that covers everything. In fact, the business case for keeping the manual M cars for a (presumably) final generation was likely built around sharing the same engine/transmission across the three (M2/M3/M4) vehicle programs.
Good point! Good for the m2, bad for the 2 series.
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      02-15-2020, 05:55 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
the cops over here don't use radar guns; they just sit by the side of road, watch you breeze by and "visually estimate" your speed, then just lie in traffic court that they confirmed your speed with radar.
What you describe is the proper use of Radar. Cops are trained to estimate speed. Radar is confirmation ONLY.
As far as calling all cops liars
It's easy for someone to sit back and make arm-chair judgements on a situation, if you never experienced it. When I called someone a liar, I wasn't making assumption, I speaking off my own personal experience..

Picture your vehicle outfitted with the best laser/radar detectors money can buy, you pass a cop, sitting on side of the road and you looked dead at him and he stared strait at you, with is snout clearly reflecting off the moonlight, he then testifies in traffic court that he verified you speed radar when we both know he's full of shit but his lie is bond and because how the power dynamic is weighed on towards the enforcer, you never stand a chance..

Over here, if Jesus Christ himself, with the holy cross sticking out his back window, is accused of speeding, in the kangaroo courts, they would believe the highway patrol, over our lord and savior, it's that skewed..

I'm not anti-cop, I understand and respect their purpose in society. Humans are like two steps away from feral animals, without law enforcement, everyday would be like the movie The Purge. The fear of prison is what subconsciously keeps everyone in check.

I am also aware that a very long time ago, before radar and laser guns was available, cops used "visual estimation" for determining speed enforcement.

I'm not a sour loser; just level the playing field and I'll take my lumps. My issue is when they strait up falsify their testimony/evidence to strengthen their accusation, such a phantom radar/laser reading, not giving you a change, innocent or otherwise.
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      02-15-2020, 08:48 PM   #171
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I'm not arm chairing anything! I'm a retired cop who did it right! I know how it is supposed to be done! Sucks if you ran into a dishonest cop with a quota. But don't lump us all into that category!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
It's easy for someone to sit back and make arm-chair judgements on a situation, if you never experienced it. When I called someone a liar, I wasn't making assumption, I speaking off my own personal experience..

Picture your vehicle outfitted with the best laser/radar detectors money can buy, you pass a cop, sitting on side of the road and you looked dead at him and he stared strait at you, with is snout clearly reflecting off the moonlight, he then testifies in traffic court that he verified you speed radar when we both know he's full of shit but his lie is bond and because how the power dynamic is weighed on towards the enforcer, you never stand a chance..

Over here, if Jesus Christ himself, with the holy cross sticking out his back window, is accused of speeding, in the kangaroo courts, they would believe the highway patrol, over our lord and savior, it's that skewed..

I'm not anti-cop, I understand and respect their purpose in society. Humans are like two steps away from feral animals, without law enforcement, everyday would be like the movie The Purge. The fear of prison is what subconsciously keeps everyone in check.

I am also aware that a very long time ago, before radar and laser guns was available, cops used "visual estimation" for determining speed enforcement.

I'm not a sour loser; just level the playing field and I'll take my lumps. My issue is when they strait up falsify their testimony/evidence to strengthen their accusation, such a phantom radar/laser reading, not giving you a change, innocent or otherwise.
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      02-15-2020, 10:17 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
I'm not arm chairing anything! I'm a retired cop who did it right! I know how it is supposed to be done! Sucks if you ran into a dishonest cop with a quota. But don't lump us all into that category!
He never said "all cops are liars" though...
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      02-16-2020, 02:42 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
I'm not arm chairing anything! I'm a retired cop who did it right! I know how it is supposed to be done! Sucks if you ran into a dishonest cop with a quota. But don't lump us all into that category!
He never said "all cops are liars" though...
To reiterate, within city limits, highway patrol just sits on the side of road, "visually estimate" your speed as you drive by and just bend the truth in court, stating that they verified your speed of travel with radar/lidar, to support their accusation. It's so unfair to a plaintiff because a "visual estimation" is nothing more than elaborate guessing and the police are given Carte Blanche to embellish the facts, in order to secure a conviction.

On the outskirts of the city, the speed enforcers do use radar/lidar to measure velocity and are typically fair with their testimony, in my experience.

Sorry to veer off topic and I could share many anecdotal instances to support my claim but my mere point was that it's almost pointless to have a fast car, since if your vehicle appears like it's moving quickly, which most BMW do, when you unleash them, you possible expose yourself to an unjust summons, so like, what's the point.
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      02-16-2020, 11:24 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
the cops over here don't use radar guns; they just sit by the side of road, watch you breeze by and "visually estimate" your speed, then just lie in traffic court that they confirmed your speed with radar.
What you describe is the proper use of Radar. Cops are trained to estimate speed. Radar is confirmation ONLY.
As far as calling all cops liars
It's easy for someone to sit back and make arm-chair judgements on a situation, if you never experienced it. When I called someone a liar, I wasn't making assumption, I speaking off my own personal experience..

Picture your vehicle outfitted with the best laser/radar detectors money can buy, you pass a cop, sitting on side of the road and you looked dead at him and he stared strait at you, with is snout clearly reflecting off the moonlight, he then testifies in traffic court that he verified you speed radar when we both know he's full of shit but his lie is bond and because how the power dynamic is weighed on towards the enforcer, you never stand a chance..

Over here, if Jesus Christ himself, with the holy cross sticking out his back window, is accused of speeding, in the kangaroo courts, they would believe the highway patrol, over our lord and savior, it's that skewed..

I'm not anti-cop, I understand and respect their purpose in society. Humans are like two steps away from feral animals, without law enforcement, everyday would be like the movie The Purge. The fear of prison is what subconsciously keeps everyone in check.

I am also aware that a very long time ago, before radar and laser guns was available, cops used "visual estimation" for determining speed enforcement.

I'm not a sour loser; just level the playing field and I'll take my lumps. My issue is when they strait up falsify their testimony/evidence to strengthen their accusation, such a phantom radar/laser reading, not giving you a change, innocent or otherwise.
I was on a grand jury in NYC and in several of the cases they were trying to make the only evidence was witness testimony from one police officer. Lots of stuff like under cover cop tries to buy drugs from a guy on a street corner, allegedly the guy says yeah, get the drugs from a guy around the corner from him. Cops arrest this man but there's no other guy around the corner, there's no drugs, no money, no tape, no audio, no other witness.

When questioned about lack of evidence the the prosecutor said the word of a police officer is solid gold evidence and can be taken as the truth. We threw out every single one of those cases.
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      02-16-2020, 05:28 PM   #175
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Quote:
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I'm not anti-cop, I understand and respect their purpose in society. Humans are like two steps away from feral animals, without law enforcement, everyday would be like the movie The Purge. The fear of prison is what subconsciously keeps everyone in check.
See, I don't believe we need cops or even governments at all if we had good religions and parents that taught us morals and ethics. The "threat" was always hell to keep people in line. But hell was never dying and burning in fire forever, but a metaphor. Hell is choosing a woman solely for her looks, her realizing it and you living in her passive-aggressive hell for eternity because she knows you don't actually like her. Same with women choosing men for money or status. Hell is being caught in a lie and everyone around you calling you out, embarrassing you, and ruining your reputation to where you are now known as a liar and no one trusts you anymore. Hell is hitting your children and forcing them to do what you say "because I said so" then watching them turn gothic, do drugs, rebel against you, or turn into the "cash me outside" girl. Hell is cheating on your wife going through a nasty divorce, hearing your children plead "why can't I have daddy around", watching your exgf get in a relationship with another man who doesn't give a shit about your children and is just around to live off of your alimony and child support money, and your children growing up never knowing what a healthy loving two-parent family looks like and never entering into relationships because they don't believe they will work. Hell is never caring about your neighbors or friends, living completely selfishly, and dying alone and having no one to care for you or drive you to the hospital when you're sick. Hell is a woman using her good youthful looks to enjoy the attention from men, never settling down, leaving her alone as her looks and fertility die as she ages and no good man left wanting her. etc.

Besides, would you rather live in fear that doing something will put your in jail? Be governed by fear, threats, and the use of force. Or would you rather live being guided that your actions will do good for society and the people around you?

Good religions have always outlived big governments anyway by orders of magnitude. Because the governments don't act morally, ethically, or compassionately. Instead creating 10,000 laws to take the place of 1 moral. Which no one is ever gonna memorize every single law, but making a vow to act morally and ethically, you don't have to memorize any of them. Governments acting in their own self interests are breeding grounds to being overthrown. While someone acting in the best interest of others will never be overthrown... because they have all the people they've helped standing behind them.

Last edited by Anthony1s; 02-16-2020 at 05:43 PM..
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      02-16-2020, 05:35 PM   #176
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