[look585]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

We'll take that scan of just the caliper and knuckle with your adapter if you have it or can get it. I'll DM you with my direct email address shortly.

The other dimension we'll need in addition to the scan of the assembly is the thickness of the rotor hat where the backpad of the wheel sits against it. I'm not sure if you know that dimension offhand.

Would you, look585, or anyone else be able to put me in contact with someone at Paragon who is familiar with this custom kit and might be able to provide that dimension?

Thanks again,

-Tom

Coco at Paragon he has been working with me

tech@paragonbrakes.com

Hutch

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

I can confirm EC7-RSs 18x10 25 offset does not clear the Paragon 380mm rotors and custom bracket set up. Kind of bummed to find this out after trying to test fit just now as the flow formed EC7s 18x10 25 offset wheels cleared the 380mm rotors/ custom bracket set up.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

I can confirm EC7-RSs 18x10 25 offset does not clear the Paragon 380mm rotors and custom bracket set up. Kind of bummed to find this out after trying to test fit just now as the flow formed EC7s 18x10 25 offset wheels cleared the 380mm rotors/ custom bracket set up.

What is the difference in barrel diameter?

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

What is the difference in barrel diameter?

I don't have the flow formed EC7s anymore; was counting on the EC7RSs fitting w/o any issues.

[look585]

My wheels are the forged VS please see pic.

18X10 with a 40 offset. Clearance abundance.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

I can confirm EC7-RSs 18x10 25 offset does not clear the Paragon 380mm rotors and custom bracket set up. Kind of bummed to find this out after trying to test fit just now as the flow formed EC7s 18x10 25 offset wheels cleared the 380mm rotors/ custom bracket set up.

Was this a barrel clearance issue or a spoke clearance issue? Also, are you using the same adapter provided by Track/S or a different adapter?

-Tom

[look585]

Just a heads up the hub holes that were delivered measured at .600"
My stud diameter is at .620.

If it just for the lug bolts it would not have been an issue.

I use to be a machinist, have the appropriate tools, knowledge and skill to modify one of the hubs.

Coco, at paragon is verifying all dimensions.

This is just a hiccup and should remedied by the next order.

The hub doesn't locate, center itself on the studs anyways.

Hutch

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by look585

Just a heads up the hub holes that were delivered measured at .600"
My stud diameter is at .620.

If it just for the lug bolts it would not have been an issue.

I use to be a machinist, have the appropriate tools, knowledge and skill to modify one of the hubs.

Coco, at paragon is verifying all dimensions.

This is just a hiccup and should remedied by the next order.

The hub doesn't locate, center itself on the studs anyways.

Hutch

The holes in the hat must be a minimum of 16.5mm, here is a pic with GT4 stud, it does not fit in the Paragon hat.

[look585]

So guys, Paragon is shipping me two new hats with the appropriate diameters for the studs.

It's not their fault they have been very upfront and helpful. Great customer service.

It's just something to mention when ordering.

Hutch

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

Was this a barrel clearance issue or a spoke clearance issue? Also, are you using the same adapter provided by Track/S or a different adapter?

-Tom

@Tom - Barrel clearance. The bottom of the caliper was touching the barrel. Yes, I'm using the adapter from Track/S .

As I look for options, do you know if there is a difference in barrel clearance between the VS-5RS in 18x10 40 offset like what look585 is running versus the 18x10 25 offset model? I'd prefer not to run a larger spacer required on the 18x10 40 offset but I'd like to confirm fitment first.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

@Tom - Barrel clearance. The bottom of the caliper was touching the barrel. Yes, I'm using the adapter from Track/S .

As I look for options, do you know if there is a difference in barrel clearance between the VS-5RS in 18x10 40 offset like what look585 is running versus the 18x10 25 offset model? I'd prefer not to run a larger spacer required on the 18x10 40 offset but I'd like to confirm fitment first.

This is interesting. Our EC-7RS wheels and VS-5RS wheels share an identical zero-degree draft barrel profile. The barrel clearances of these two wheels should be identical aside from the section of the wheel near the spokes which will vary based on the offset of the wheels and the spoke profiles. The barrel clearances also should be significantly better than the flow formed EC-7 up to the spoke area where it can vary based on fitment with our forged wheels.

A few questions from my side:

Are you sure that the forged wheels you have are our EC-7RS? We've gone through a few design names in the EC-7 family including the EC-7R which was discontinued. I'm just wanting to check on this first before asking more complex questions as there is more than one "forged EC-7" out there on the secondary market.

Where is the rubbing occurring with the EC-7RS that you have specifically?


Referencing this image, is the caliper body contacting the barrel along the flat portion (yellow) or ramp up to the spoke area (red)? I assume it's not contacting along the spokes (green) based on feedback you've already provided.

Ultimately, a scan of this kit will tell me the most information assuming the adapters and calipers are consistent through production which is why I reached out to Track/S. But these first steps will help me figure out what your clearance issue is.

look585 Can you refresh my memory on what spacer you're running? If you're running a spacer large enough to reduce the effective offset lower than ET25, that may be why there is a difference here. There is also a difference in spoke profile between ET40 wheels and ET25 wheels as well as between EC-7RS and VS-5RS but that shouldn't be causing a definite difference in clearance between wheels that share a barrel profile.

Sorry for the long post, if this begins to derail the thread I can take the conversation to Email/DM.

-Tom

[look585]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

This is interesting. Our EC-7RS wheels And VS-5RS wheels share an identical zero-degree draft barrel profile. The barrel clearances of these two wheels should be identical aside from the section of the wheel near the spokes which will vary based on the offset of the wheels and the spoke profiles. The barrel clearances also should be significantly better than the flow formed EC-7s up to the spoke area where it can vary based on fitment with our forged wheels.

A few questions from my side:

Are you sure that the forged wheels you have are our EC-7RS? We've gone through a few design names in the EC-7 family including the EC-7R which was discontinued. I'm just wanting to check on this first before asking more complex questions as there is more than one "forged EC-7" out there on the secondary market.

Where is the rubbing occurring with the EC-7RS that you have specifically?


Referencing this image, is the caliper body contacting the barrel along the flat portion (yellow) or ramp up to the spoke area (red)? I assume it's not contacting along the spokes (green) based on feedback you've already provided.

Ultimately, a scan of this kit will tell me the most information assuming the adapters and calipers are consistent through production which is why I reached out to Track/S. But these first steps will help me figure out what your clearance issue is.

look585 Can you refresh my memory on what spacer you're running? If you're [...]

So the spacer in the front is a 12mm.

The stock fronts are 29 let’s just call it 30 mm
so running 40 mm is not that big of a deal

Wheels are still tucked under fenders.

When I get the new hats installed and driven I will report back.

Again haven’t driven in this configuration yet

[look585]

What does 2NH stand for

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by look585

What does 2NH stand for

It's the name BMW gave to the brake kit that came with the M2 Competition.

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

This is interesting. Our EC-7RS wheels and VS-5RS wheels share an identical zero-degree draft barrel profile. The barrel clearances of these two wheels should be identical aside from the section of the wheel near the spokes which will vary based on the offset of the wheels and the spoke profiles. The barrel clearances also should be significantly better than the flow formed EC-7 up to the spoke area where it can vary based on fitment with our forged wheels.

A few questions from my side:

Are you sure that the forged wheels you have are our EC-7RS? We've gone through a few design names in the EC-7 family including the EC-7R which was discontinued. I'm just wanting to check on this first before asking more complex questions as there is more than one "forged EC-7" out there on the secondary market.

Where is the rubbing occurring with the EC-7RS that you have specifically?


Referencing this image, is the caliper body contacting the barrel along the flat portion (yellow) or ramp up to the spoke area (red)? I assume it's not contacting along the spokes (green) based on feedback you've already provided.

Ultimately, a scan of this kit will tell me the most information assuming the adapters and calipers are consistent through production which is why I reached out to Track/S. But these first steps will help me figure out what your clearance issue is.

look585 Can you refresh my memory on what spacer you're running? If you're running a spacer large enough to reduce the effective offset lower than ET25, that may be why there is a difference here. There is also a difference in spoke profile between ET40 wheels and ET25 wheels as well as between EC-7RS and VS-5RS but that shouldn't be causing a definite difference in clearance between wheels that share a barrel profile.

Sorry for the long post, if this begins to derail the thread I can take the conversation to Email/DM.

-Tom

@Tom - I purchased the EC7RS wheels; received them two weeks ago. I refitted the 18x10 25mm offset in the front again and it's not touching as it did during my first test fit attempt. I may have not set the wheels properly the first time as the clearance is very close (see pics below):

Pic of wheel where it touched during initial fitting:


Pic of wheels during second test fitting:
Top of caliper



Bottom of Caliper


Inner Clearance to Coilover


If the EC7RS and VS-5RS shares the same barrel profile, then there may be a difference in the barrel clearance between the 25mm vs 40mm offset as the pictures by look585 seems to show a lot more barrel clearance than mine.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

@Tom - I purchased the EC7RS wheels; received them two weeks ago. I refitted the 18x10 25mm offset in the front again and it's not touching as it did during my first test fit attempt. I may have not set the wheels properly the first time as the clearance is very close (see pics below):

Pic of wheel where it touched during initial fitting:


Pic of wheels during second test fitting:
Top of caliper



Bottom of Caliper


Inner Clearance to Coilover


If the EC7RS and VS-5RS shares the same barrel profile, then there may be a difference in the barrel clearance between the 25mm vs 40mm offset as the pictures by look585 seems to show a lot more barrel clearance than mine.

The profile and barrel clearance of those 2 designs (VS-5RS/EC-7RS) in an 18" diameter are identical regardless of the offset except for the areas I highlighted in red and green in the image above which shift with the offset/spoke profile. The clearance you have and look585 have in the area of the barrel where the scratch was is the same. The fact that the wheel now clears (even though it's tight) definitely points to incorrect mounting during the initial test. With that being said, if the clearance between the caliper and barrel is tight enough, you will get scratching from road debris on both the inner barrel of the wheel and body of the caliper over time. We shoot for a 3mm gap minimum, but it's hard to measure everywhere that it matters without modeling both the wheel and brakes in solidworks.

-Tom

[ThreeStripes]

This kinda stuff right here is why I have Apex wheels on my track car. You can’t fake this kinda passion for your work.

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

The profile and barrel clearance of those 2 designs (VS-5RS/EC-7RS) in an 18" diameter are identical regardless of the offset except for the areas I highlighted in red and green in the image above which shift with the offset/spoke profile. The clearance you have and look585 have in the area of the barrel where the scratch was is the same. The fact that the wheel now clears (even though it's tight) definitely points to incorrect mounting during the initial test. With that being said, if the clearance between the caliper and barrel is tight enough, you will get scratching from road debris on both the inner barrel of the wheel and body of the caliper over time. We shoot for a 3mm gap minimum, but it's hard to measure everywhere that it matters without modeling both the wheel and brakes in solidworks.

-Tom

Thank you for confirming that the barrel clearance for the EC7RS and VS-5RS are the same regardless of offset. I'm not too worried about potential scratches on the wheels/ calipers as it's an inevitability even with the OEM 788m wheels and factory 400mm OEM rotors setup.

I'm looking forward to using the new wheels and brakes setup this autox and HPDE season.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

Thank you for confirming that the barrel clearance for the EC7RS and VS-5RS are the same regardless of offset. I'm not too worried about potential scratches on the wheels/ calipers as it's an inevitability even with the OEM 788m wheels and factory 400mm OEM rotors setup.

I'm looking forward to using the new wheels and brakes setup this autox and HPDE season.

The one place I typically tell track guys to watch out if I know they have tight clearances between caliper and barrel is if you are at tracks that use gravel traps. This is a niche scenario, but if you blow a braking zone and end up in deep gravel with sub 3mm of clearance, there's a chance you might get some sizeable stones stuck in there.

Ideally, this never happens, but it's worth considering.

-Tom

[Juice ///M]

OK so how do I get the 2NH stuff Track/S and Expert@ApexWheels ? Clearly with 2 of these cars in our rental fleet I need more 18" options NOW!

[medphysdave]

Would be great if we can figure out a 10.5" or 11" square option that didn't require spacers. I'm not sure if that's structurally possible though.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by Juice ///M

OK so how do I get the 2NH stuff Track/S and Expert@ApexWheels ? Clearly with 2 of these cars in our rental fleet I need more 18" options NOW!

I can make the brackets 1mm narrower and we would gain 1mm compared to the pic of alpinewhiteM2C.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Would be great if we can figure out a 10.5" or 11" square option that didn't require spacers. I'm not sure if that's structurally possible though.

I have a client who is in love with the 763m 18x11 ET30, I sent him this pic and now he doesn't want other wheels




On back some modifications will have to be made and they can go without a spacer, at the front it will be mandatory with OEM knuckles.