| 06-21-2022, 09:55 PM | #1 |
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An introduction and a build
Hi All,
I am newly returned to the BMW fold! Previous BMWs were an Euro Spec (grey market) E24 M6 with a stroked 3.7l motor, and an E36 M3 in this great Daytona Violet! My previous track car is a 2004 Porsche GT3 that is a fully setup track toy replete with Porsche Motorsports suspension (Mostly Porsche RSR & Grand-AM parts) The license plates are really a joke, noting even remotely street-able on that car! For example, the complete pp /clutch / flywheel assembly weighed 15 lbs... Now to chat a bit about my journey and my thoughts... That is a hungry beast ($$$) to feed, and I decided to simplify my life a bit. I wanted to not need to tow to the track, I wanted to be able to drive the car on the street, I wanted just a lot less hassle in my life. About a month ago, I started looking at options. I considered a C6 or C7 vette, M3, M4, some full out race cars - Ford Boss 351R or whatever it is called, and I kept coming back to the I want easy choices. The C7 goes like stink on the track, but I felt like I was in a video game. I get to drive and or sit in the right seats of a lot of cars on the track - I instruct for both BMW and PCA... So 2 weeks ago, I bought an M2 Comp in Ann Arbor MI. 1st annoying thing is the price. Folks are getting above MSRP for a used car... Oh Well. I considered the M2CS - but that really didn't seem worth it. The M3 & M4 looked good, but they came in even more portly than the M2C. This car will be and continue to be a streetable track car. It will not even come close to the Porsche in anything other than the new car smell, the CPO warranty, and the age, that is the cost of simplifying my life, I need to deal with it. That said, before doing anything, the BMW is already a fun car. Thee are some boy-racer aspects to it, byt the engine, tranny, and suspension all feel great! The Porsche comes in at ~3100 with driver, and gas, and sub 2:05's at the Glen and sub 2:45s at LCMT are not even close to being out of the question. I worry about the electronics, brakes, cooling and the weight in general in that order. My last 3500lb track car was a Subaru STi, and there was very little I could do to get the heat out, and it was a track only car. I do need to say that the build quality of the BMW is just a little bit better! I listed the electronics not because I think they are prone to problems, but rather that they are literally a part of the car, as opposed to something arbitrarily glued on, and intrusive. Everything else can be addressed up to a point. I will detail my build and my thoughts. I also welcome questions and thoughts. Thanks Ray |
| 06-21-2022, 10:16 PM | #2 |
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The bits
What I am going to be adding / changing to the car. I will fill in details and some pricing later
I will likely run R compound tires, NT01 or equiv. The brakes will let me run 18's I still NEED a harness bar, roll cage, BUT I need something that uses existing mounting points, AKA 'bolt-in' - the B-K harness bar looks great, but I have yet to find one. I understand the issues with the thin floors etc... But I am keeping this simple and streetable, and a proper cage is gonna cost a lot - just kidding as I seem to be hemorrhaging money and I am 'gainfully unemployed- - AKA retired, so there are budgets to consider, and I still need to sell the GT3! Thoughts on the roll bar / harness bar are welcome, although I am sorta considering fabbing something (GASP! - being an engineer, I am to dumb to worry!) I also need to either do or get done coding. I want the ABS, the Diff, the Air-bags, the seat belts, and probably some other stuff made to cooperate! I am lucky in that I have tools, lots of tools! This also includes being able to fab stuff - up to a point, but I have lathes, mills, welders, so I will do most of this stuff myself, coding not certain yet, I do have the BMW tools, but... Ray Last edited by rbahr; 06-21-2022 at 10:45 PM.. |
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| 06-22-2022, 01:56 AM | #3 |
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Welcome to the forum, nice looking 996.
Looks like nice build specs. Personally I would skip the crank hub capture plate. It does zip and might even increase the chances of spinning the hub. Diagram of why it doesn't work here https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=81 Brakes wise, this being an FR car, I don't think you need to upgrade the rears beyond pads and possibly the CS racing rear brake cooling. I run the stock 2 pot blue calipers on my comp (APs in front) with Pagid RSL29s and there is 0 fade from the rear (TC off obv.) Even after running a tank of gas through the car without stopping. For reference I consistently get 1.2Gs out of my track tires (Nankang NS2R). Most of the braking is done up front and you feel this as the car pitches forward and makes the rear light and squirlly. I have some Bilstein Clubsports now (2 trackdays on em) and just got them dialed in to where the pitch is reduced. Still no fade from the brakes  As to coding you will likely want to code all the CS stuff (steering/diff/TC) which can be done with ETIS. I would also look into brake coding to turn off stuff like emergency braking that can make the brake pedal feel funy when your pushing it on track.
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AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
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| 06-22-2022, 11:47 AM | #4 |
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Thanks Megator,
I will likely still do the capture plate. I look at it mostly as a mild aid - pretty much like safety wiring and bolt. I *really* don't like any solution I have seen, there are all down sides. The idea of drilling into a crank with a hand drill just begs the question 'What could go wrong?' Most pins are designed to register objects, and they can handle some shearing force, but the impulse of a 600hp motor on one or a couple smaller pins is pretty high. If any of these pins are not perfectly perpendicular, well that just makes things worse. I am new to this world, and wonder what the REAL failure rate is, and what BMW does for their race cars. Perhaps they just change that fancy 'washer' every race... Porsche does exactly the same thing, but on the front timing pully which does not drive anything except a fan belt, and they use a 'washer', really a washer coated with industrial diamond, and a bit - but that is really to locate the timing mark. BTW that washer is $60.00... If you really want to 'fix' this you need to broach the hub and add a key to the crank. If I needed to rebuild the motor, that is what I would do. For now, I will pretty much stay at OEM HP levels. perhaps add the 40hp back, but leave it at that. I am tired of building motors cuz the last one poped, or fixing heat-soak problems... WRT Brakes, I agree. The rears don't do much. The lower HP race car runs the OEM calipers. I *may* change the rears out, mostly to save on unsprung weight and better rotor cooling, and consequently better wheel bearing longevity. I can sell off the original set and help manage costs. I will try and add ducting for cooling though, as I tend to be hard on brakes... Good information on coding - Thanks! Ray Last edited by rbahr; 06-22-2022 at 10:34 PM.. |
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| 06-23-2022, 01:33 AM | #5 | |
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The CBC does nothing and is like safety wiring a bolt to itself. It does not "anchor" itself to the crankshaft in any way. If you follow that thread you will see I posted evidence of a CBC car where the hub spun anyways and that did lead to catastrophic engine failure. The BMW hub is the same as the Porsche one you describe, it also uses the diamond coated washers to increase the friction hold. This method is also used by other manufacturers like Ford (in my previous Focus RS for example) without issue, so its not a bad concept just a bad execution. The hub does not take the full HP it only takes the drag of the valvetrain and accessories as this is what is "holding it back". The pinned solutions work and have been out there seemingly without issue. A woodruff key is indeed one solution but again u weaken the crank at that point. EDIT: Also this was one of the 1st solutions tried by tuners and they kept cracking timing gears as they are just too thin to machine and have the thinner remaing section take the stresses. The S55 is an amazing engine and has a great cooling package. Even at 500WHP you wont get heatsoak unless you are tracking in 30C+. Vis a vis the rear brakes, the M2 CS racing in its lower spec version comes with exactly your brake setup. https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...r/34_3041.html You can get BMW developed rear brake cooling scoops https://www.apmotorsport.co.uk/produ...oling-channels (see the 3rd image)
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AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
Last edited by Megator; 06-23-2022 at 01:39 AM.. |
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| 06-23-2022, 07:44 AM | #6 |
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Thanks Megator,
I appreciate the pointer to the cooling bits, and had see the information for rear brake calipers. I also do like the Air -> water intercooler... I really don't disagree about the VTT plate. There are a couple of corner cases where I could see it having value... Let's also consider the use case. For me it is a track car and not likely to ever have a drag car like race, I won't side step the clutch, and it is important for my to not have sudden impulse like forces on the drive-line as this just upsets the balance of the car. I need to find the wiring diagram for the seat connector to add in resistors for air-bags, can anyone give me some pointers? Thanks Ray The Ford Focus RS had a lot of potential, I didn't like what I read about the AWD system. I also have hope for the new Toyota, but... Any way, I will start the process of doing the front brakes, and removing the front bumper, I need to install some screen behind it as a pebble @ 150 MPH can ruin the day for your radiator. |
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| 06-23-2022, 07:54 AM | #7 |
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Look at Zunsport front grills.
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2019 M2 Comp, Alpine White, DCT, track car build, 1/2 cage, AP Racing Brakes & Nitron Coilovers, BM3 Stage 1 93 Oct.
2018 Porsche Cayman GTS, Night Blue Metalic, PDK, COBB tuned 93 Oct. 2004 Audi A4 Avant USP 6mt, RS4 clutch, built motor, Garrett GT3071r "Big Ass Turbo" Motoza Tune |
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| 06-23-2022, 09:40 AM | #9 | |
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| 06-23-2022, 12:22 PM | #10 | |
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Dampers I'd recommend shopping around and reading a little bit. I think 2 options I'd consider around that price point would be Öhlins TTX from 3DM or a Nitron R3 setup from OG Shark . I have the TTX and have been extremely impressed and despite what is sometimes thought, not having to mess with remote reservoirs is nice. Even with remote res. rebound adjustments are always on the damper shaft so you'll be under the car at the rear at a minimum. The Nitrons from OG_Shark are being developed for this platform with the help of a really talented suspension shop. Motor If you're not tuning the car, I'd likely skip the crank-hub fixes. My thought on this has been it's better to hope it's warrantied than guarantee it won't be if the fix isn't actually a fix as Megator stated. Also stated by Megator, I've found the cooling system phenomenal at stock power levels in heat as high as 105ş F ambient  !Brakes I'd reach out to daap1193 for brake coding—and he can also work in GTS coding for the rear differential and euro MDM. His coding will provide a better, more consistent braking experience than stock. Well worth the small price of admission. I have front and rear APs and agree that the rears aren't as necessary. I primarily did the rears for aesthetics, and serviceability (rotor rings)—weight and pad choice were just bonuses. There is not really a good option for roll/harness bars—a few from overseas maybe. I just lucked out and happen to be good friends with a fantastic fabricator who did my bar. The BK bar looked like a decent option but I also was never able to see one in person. Welcome to the forum and looking forward to seeing your future track experiences! |
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| 06-23-2022, 01:41 PM | #11 |
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Bentom2: Perhaps I am old-school here, but having been an engineer for longer than I can count, I often worry about 'The law of unintended consequences', and a ~2.5 ohm resistor keeps everyone happy! I *may* still just try or have it coded out, but will start with the resistor.
I am also trying to figure out the Occupancy detector on the passenger side. I want to disable it, but not entirely sure how to. I saw one approach with a diode and a couple of resistors... I just ordered the B-K harness bar - I have used their products in the Porsche world, and yes they are expensive, but they are also over-engineered. I also got some Ravenol Motor Oil VST 5W-40. Will probably get the car on the lift shortly, put some good oil in and add some good beakfluid as well and start taking a perfectly fine car apart - ( and for those of you that remember 'Get Smart', "...and lovin it") I really do need to admit that the whole crank-hub thing has me curious. Are there any class-action law suits, or recalls or ?? on this matter. Or do we really only see corner-cases on the <500hp motors? Thanks for everyone's input Ray |
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| 06-25-2022, 09:44 AM | #12 | |
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| 06-27-2022, 05:43 AM | #13 | |
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As you added power to the RS the car became more FWD based as the rear would only accept so much power. Add in the chocolate engines and I didn't want to continue with that platform. Very fun car though, much funner than other AWD hatches and so fast on a rainy track lol. I agree with what M1500Z says. I had the brake coding done by daap1193 and its made braking consistently much easier!
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AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
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| 06-27-2022, 08:55 AM | #14 |
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Thanks All,
Been trying to get the software tools up and in place, have ordered the BK harness (...must resist urge to cage car  ) I am told that will take 3 or so weeks. I am waiting on the shocks, have all the spring etc. I will need to order rims and tires, not to mention sell a few cars... (wife acceptance factor is pretty low!)BMW does not make working on this car easy - at all. It is really annoying! I will also do a complete 'tune up' while things are apart, and will likely replace the charge pipes - need to find a reasonable choice. Been trying to collect the various fluids that I need:
is the list I currently have. I have spent sme time over at BITOG forum and saw a few folks there who I recognized from here, but I still have questions! Is it possible to remove the top speed limit? I head to LCMT at the end of July, and although it won't happen this visit, with the GT3, a good lap would see me at that point at the end of the back straight, also WGI would easily have me at that speed and more at the back straight! Will likely take you up on the ABS. my current coding list is:
If there is anything I am missing, would love to hear it. Thanks Ray |
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| 06-27-2022, 01:38 PM | #15 | |
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| 06-29-2022, 12:00 PM | #16 |
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Hey Ray, I also own a 996 gt3. You sold me a set of stock mufflers for that car ~15 months ago. I am still occasionally tracking mine but my primary track car is 1.6 spec miata - can't beat it for keeping costs down. I just picked up an M2C as my daily driver. I feel sure it will see the track once or twice but I am really trying to keep from going down a rabbit hole with the M2.
Excited to see how this build progresses. |
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| 06-29-2022, 05:51 PM | #17 |
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Hi Alex,
The GT3 is not a cheap car as a full out track car. I will miss the speed and precision, but not the costs. I considered spec Boxster or Miata as alternatives, but that was to big a step to take :-) The M2C has a warranty and I have promised myself that I won't cage & gut it, change the motor... unlike so many recent cars! As it stands, it looks pretty good! Still waiting on the MCS shocks, then the great transformation starts! I have an event at LCMT at the end of July, and I need to schedule a bunch of other events, and hope to start to get used to the car. Ray |
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