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      07-13-2020, 08:48 PM   #1
Daytona_550
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Trouble finding 2nd gear under load

This has happened 2 or 3 times during track driving. Basically I've had a few instances of difficulty finding (engaging) 2nd gear (M2C 6MT) just after heavy braking and while beginning lateral load from turn-in (always to the right). I remember it happening at Daytona on Turn 3 and also at Sebring on Turn 7.

I have an AutoSolutions short shift kit with 95A bushing on left side and OE bushing on right side (long story short: Ron messed up and only sent one bushing).

I initially thought the problem was just me not being used to the SSK, but I've been driving it for some time now and beginning to wonder if the shifting under heavy load (and the bushings) may have something to do with it?

Anyone experience anything like this?
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      07-13-2020, 09:15 PM   #2
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My local tracks don’t require a downshift to 2nd, but I’ve encountered a similar situation for 4->3 downshifts if I wait until I’ve started turning to make the downshift. As long as I downshift where there’s no lateral load, I have no trouble in the same corner entry, and there’s really no good reason for me to be shifting while turning at my local tracks. I’ve just made it a conscious effort to shift a bit earlier- before turn in.

My assumption is that the powertrain is leaning on the engine/trans mounts and altering the position of 3rd gear.

I’ll be interested to hear if others are encountering this.
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      07-13-2020, 09:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytona_550 View Post
This has happened 2 or 3 times during track driving. Basically I've had a few instances of difficulty finding (engaging) 2nd gear (M2C 6MT) just after heavy braking and while beginning lateral load from turn-in (always to the right). I remember it happening at Daytona on Turn 3 and also at Sebring on Turn 7.

I have an AutoSolutions short shift kit with 95A bushing on left side and OE bushing on right side (long story short: Ron messed up and only sent one bushing).

I initially thought the problem was just me not being used to the SSK, but I've been driving it for some time now and beginning to wonder if the shifting under heavy load (and the bushings) may have something to do with it?

Anyone experience anything like this?
I remember your post when I was installing my Autosolutions SSK. I have tracked my M2 since installing mine and have much better and accurate shifts on the Track. My experience with the OEM bushings was similar to the one you have now. With OEM I would have some difficulty finding gears getting tossed about in OEM seat and not being planted in seat with harness. I would ask Ron to send out another bushing and match it to the left side. Having two different bushings could quite possibly be your problem.
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      07-13-2020, 09:32 PM   #4
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I also have the Autosolutions SSK, love it. I try and get my downshifting done right before turning in. This weekend there were a couple of times when I needed to downshift from 4th to 3rd mid corner when being given a point by from a car that had slowed me up a lot, but didn't notice any difficulty shifting. The M2C has so much torque it would need to be a very slow corner for me to downshift to second.

Semi related but I find heel and toe so annoying to get right on track, probably because I'm not at the level where I'm 100pc consistent. I flip flop between lifting the heel and shifting the side of my foot across to blip or just having the ball of my foot on the brake and side footing the throttle. Probably just need to stick with one. Its hard to really fine tune on the street as its very rare you are that deep in the brakes. Not being able to enable throttle blip with DSC off was one of the most stupid design decisions in the f8x generation IMO, I'm literally considering BM3 just so I can enable it.
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      07-13-2020, 10:14 PM   #5
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Same here, but with the stock shifter. Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd it's almost like the shifter would get stuck in between 2nd and 4th, real awkward on track. Stock shifter has a lot of play though.
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      07-14-2020, 02:04 PM   #6
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Happens often on a completely stock shifter for me and a few others as well.
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      07-14-2020, 02:42 PM   #7
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I've almost mis-shifted into 2nd twice when attempting to go from 3 -> 4 - this happened when I was going around a long and fast sweeping left turn (at thunderhill west, if anyone is familiar with that track). I really had to concentrate on making sure the shifter went into the correct position - this is literally the easiest shift, straight back! So I do agree it does seem to shift a bit under lateral load.
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      07-14-2020, 03:41 PM   #8
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Not to stir the pot but its interesting to hear some frank reviews of the manual instead of the usual huzzah around them.

Makes me glad I picked the DCT as slopy/difficult shifts is the thing I liked least about my previous car. Dont get me wrong I love manuals (half the reason I own an NA Miata) but the ease of the DCT is just beautiful.
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      07-14-2020, 04:50 PM   #9
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Thanks all for the feedback. Surprised to see that this is a fairly common thing.

I'll reach out to Ron to get his thoughts and to upgrade the SSK bushings to a harder compound.
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      07-15-2020, 06:18 AM   #10
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I've had a similar issue.. Headed fast into a hairpin right turn down a mountain with heavy braking, tried to downshift from 3 -> 2 and the stock shifter disengaged from third but felt like it was blocked out of 2nd and would not move into 2nd until I cleared the turn and the car straightened out. I doubt it's because of the SSK, more a BMW and their transmission problem. I usually try to downshift earlier and make sure I'm in the right gear before coming into a similar situation again.
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      07-15-2020, 06:41 AM   #11
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Yea I know exactly what you mean, although I feel it's just due to the amount of play in the shifter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlm2c View Post
I've had a similar issue.. Headed fast into a hairpin right turn down a mountain with heavy braking, tried to downshift from 3 -> 2 and the stock shifter disengaged from third but felt like it was blocked out of 2nd and would not move into 2nd until I cleared the turn and the car straightened out. I doubt it's because of the SSK, more a BMW and their transmission problem. I usually try to downshift earlier and make sure I'm in the right gear before coming into a similar situation again.
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      07-15-2020, 08:38 AM   #12
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Ditto. These cars like being in the correct gear before entering a corner. Simple driver fix in my opinion.
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      07-20-2020, 02:01 PM   #13
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For the 3-2 Down shifts you many be crossing over to the reverse area of the shifter gate...You know how you have to push hard to the left to get to reverse... I have found that this area of the shifter gate prevents engagement of 2nd for example on a 3-2 shift. On track it could easier to accidentally push the shifter too far left preventing engagement into 2nd.. Give it a try and see if this replicates the feeling.
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      07-21-2020, 01:56 AM   #14
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I've had this a couple of times under heavy load but not enough to make me regret buying the manual
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      05-25-2021, 08:31 AM   #15
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bumping this one.. for OP feedback.

Daytona_550 Did you ever get this sorted? If so can you share some detail on how?
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      05-25-2021, 01:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fined View Post
bumping this one.. for OP feedback.

Daytona_550 Did you ever get this sorted? If so can you share some detail on how?
Since starting this thread I replaced the mismatched bushing in the SSK and I also installed Rogue Engineering transmission mounts.

The original issue only happened on track, and I haven't driven it on track since these changes. Next track event is Barber in July. I'll post some feedback afterward.
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      05-26-2021, 09:44 AM   #17
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For those who aren't lifelong track shifters, practicing heel-toe is really essential; since it requires DTC off, it is sort of suicidal to be tracking w/o total confidence (so best bet is leave at least MDM on and go w/revmatch). If there is a way to code revmatch off while still having DTC that would be ideal, because DTC-off makes for expensive learning curve. Start with stationary practice sitting in the car going thru it until it is smooth and consistent (like an hour, not just 'til you get bored and the song ends). Then use it on the street all the time, until it really becomes second nature. You really need 4 point belts to stay in place in the seat too, without the dead pedal support. Disclaimer is that I spent my early life doing this, when MT was the only real option in a performance car and the usable rev range was about 2000rpm wide if you were lucky; now I'm in a DCT and loving it.
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      07-15-2021, 03:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fined View Post
bumping this one.. for OP feedback.

Daytona_550 Did you ever get this sorted? If so can you share some detail on how?
Back from Barber this past weekend and posting an update... I did not have the shifting issue but there was no shifting to 2nd gear required under heavy lateral load. Coming into Turn 9, there's a short med-to-heavy brake (longitudinal load) while shifting to 2nd gear, and no issues. I'll post again if the issue shows back up but I doubt it will.

The changes I made were going to the hardest bushings on the AS SSK, Rogue Engineering transmission mounts, and a Turner rear carrier bushing for the shifter.
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      07-16-2021, 11:43 AM   #19
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keep us posted, I have the issue too.
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      07-16-2021, 12:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
keep us posted, I have the issue too.
Where does it happen to you? On track, on a specific downshift while turning?
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      07-16-2021, 12:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytona_550 View Post
Where does it happen to you? On track, on a specific downshift while turning?
Yeah, but it's not necessarily on the track, but I made sure to aggressively use the brake zones. For me, it happens on the street around longer curves - it's probably gotten worse over years too. If I had to guess, it's the transmission and engine mounts getting older and having more play.

Keep in mind, I have an M235i, and the M2 Drivetrain mounts are more robust (transmission and engine mount are shared with the M3/4 and are stiffer)

Since you made the changes the driveline, please keep us posted on how it turns out.
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      09-23-2021, 12:55 PM   #22
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Update: the 2nd gear lockout issue popped up again a couple of times this weekend while braking hard at Sebring's Turn 7. Both times were on 3-2 shifts while straight-line braking (no lateral load).
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