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      08-20-2020, 08:05 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?
I agree, I know a salesman that told me a guy bought their allocation for $30k above sticker...$30k!

I will say it's a special car and will be a collectors item years down the line though, but $30k over hell no. Also mind you the buyer has no idea the color or build the car is coming in or the transmission. That's just nuts.
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      08-20-2020, 08:15 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I believe that no-one claims that an M2C (even if heavily modded) is an M2 CS or a wannabe M2 CS. Both cars are siblings of a great F87 bloodline. An M2C will always be an M2C and an M2 CS will always be an M2 CS. And the M2 CS will always be at the top of the F87 pecking order.

But any claim that the M2 CS is to the M2C, what the the E46 M3 CSL was to the the E46 M3, is flawed IMHO. BMW did quite some surgery on the E46 M3 to develop the E46 M3 CSL, shaving off 110 kg (1495 kg reduced to 1385 kg), never called it "limited edition" and made 1383 cars. This E46 M3 extraordinaire justified its 50% markup. One cannot say the same about the M2 CS. Great car, undoubtedly, but compared to the extra mile(s) walked by BMW M for the E46 M3 CSL (see for example here and here), BMW M took the easy road for the M2 CS and charged a flatteringly immodest markup when considering the M2C price (and discounts), regardless the marketing trick of "only 2200 cars" (817 more M2 CS than E46 M3 CSL or almost 60% more).
  • E46 M3 CSL: 1383 built - out of production;
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - produced until Feb 2020 (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 until Dec 2020 (see here).
I disagree to some extent about the justification of the price increase. Mainly in that it depends on where the end user places the value. If you place the value on overall performance improvement, then it likely will falls short of expectations. If you value the "lipstick" additions, then I believe the cost is justified.

1. CS owners identify that the adaptive dampers make the car more pleasant to drive.
2. The interior is more premium with better leather interior.
3. Included wheels are significant cost.
4. CFRP additions are plentiful and costly.
5. CS owners report a different driving dynamic.
6. It does make more power in factory warrantied form.
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      08-20-2020, 08:44 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?
Maybe because a driver prefers a BMW to a hairdressers P-car!😀
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      08-20-2020, 08:45 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?
As covered in this and multiple other threads:

GTS 4.0 is more expensive by 10's of thousands than CS when you actually option it.
Doesn't have back seat for those that are interested/need it
1st and 2nd gear suck (too long to be fun legally)

That's the super short version.
Add to that, it's not a "unique" build.
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      08-20-2020, 09:13 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I disagree to some extent about the justification of the price increase. Mainly in that it depends on where the end user places the value. If you place the value on overall performance improvement, then it likely will falls short of expectations. If you value the "lipstick" additions, then I believe the cost is justified.

1. CS owners identify that the adaptive dampers make the car more pleasant to drive.
2. The interior is more premium with better leather interior.
3. Included wheels are significant cost.
4. CFRP additions are plentiful and costly.
5. CS owners report a different driving dynamic.
6. It does make more power in factory warrantied form.
Dave

I think you would agree this whole CS vs Competition vs Porsche thing has become a tired topic . . . you are just about the only person on this forum who comes out and says, “I just want one.” The rest can continue to try and justify their purchase anyway they like.

Moving on, one thing you stated above made me curious. Namely, the 763M wheels 'are a significant cost.' Although I am sure the 763M and 788M wheels can be purchased through several different distributors and cost might vary a bit, I went to one distributor (Alloy Wheels Direct) for direct comparison in cost.

The 763M wheels are $4,195 for a set of four, while the 788M wheels are $4,614 for a set of four. So, actually, the 763M wheels come at a savings, not significant cost . . . at least from BMW’s perspective, not the consumers.

///AVM
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      08-20-2020, 09:17 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I agree, I know a salesman that told me a guy bought their allocation for $30k above sticker...$30k!

I will say it's a special car and will be a collectors item years down the line though, but $30k over hell no. Also mind you the buyer has no idea the color or build the car is coming in or the transmission. That's just nuts.
Crazy. So there is a bidding war for allocations?
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      08-20-2020, 09:22 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
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Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
M2 CS is not going to have 0% depreciation in 4 years, let's be realistic.
Why not? My 2011 1M hasn't lost a penny in resale value since I brought it home.
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      08-20-2020, 09:27 AM   #118
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M2 CS will restore a full head of hair (top photo), middle aged men around the world rejoice, sales increase 3000% for Q3!
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      08-20-2020, 09:29 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Dave

I think you would agree this whole CS vs Competition vs Porsche thing has become a tired topic . . . you are just about the only person on this forum who comes out and says, “I just want one.” The rest can continue to try and justify their purchase anyway they like.
Hey now I"m in the "I just want it camp" as well. I'm just pedantic and tend to explain the reasons that myself and others may have used to get to that point, or are hanging on to. In the end, right car for me, and simply what I want. If the CS doesn't happen for some crazy reason with allocations, I'm genuinely not sure what I'll do. Lotus, Alfa, GT350, 991 Carrera S... Dunno.
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      08-20-2020, 09:29 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I disagree to some extent about the justification of the price increase. Mainly in that it depends on where the end user places the value. If you place the value on overall performance improvement, then it likely will falls short of expectations. If you value the "lipstick" additions, then I believe the cost is justified.

1. CS owners identify that the adaptive dampers make the car more pleasant to drive.
2. The interior is more premium with better leather interior.
3. Included wheels are significant cost.
4. CFRP additions are plentiful and costly.
5. CS owners report a different driving dynamic.
6. It does make more power in factory warrantied form.
Dave

I think you would agree this whole CS vs Competition vs Porsche thing has become a tired topic . . . you are just about the only person on this forum who comes out and says, "I just want one." The rest can continue to try and justify their purchase anyway they like.

Moving on, one thing you stated above made me curious. Namely, the 763M wheels 'are a significant cost.' Although I am sure the 763M and 788M wheels can be purchased through several different distributors and cost might vary a bit, I went to one distributor (Alloy Wheels Direct) for direct comparison in cost.

The 763M wheels are $4,195 for a set of four, while the 788M wheels are $4,614 for a set of four. So, actually, the 763M wheels come at a savings, not significant cost . . . at least from BMW's perspective, not the consumers.

///AVM
I just want one!
(Does that help?)
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      08-20-2020, 09:40 AM   #121
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      08-20-2020, 10:01 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Crazy. So there is a bidding war for allocations?
Oh yeah, that same dealer MIGHT get 1 more allocation and there is a 5 client wait list...deepest pockets wins the prize.
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      08-20-2020, 10:11 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Dave

I think you would agree this whole CS vs Competition vs Porsche thing has become a tired topic . . . you are just about the only person on this forum who comes out and says, “I just want one.” The rest can continue to try and justify their purchase anyway they like.

Moving on, one thing you stated above made me curious. Namely, the 763M wheels 'are a significant cost.' Although I am sure the 763M and 788M wheels can be purchased through several different distributors and cost might vary a bit, I went to one distributor (Alloy Wheels Direct) for direct comparison in cost.

The 763M wheels are $4,195 for a set of four, while the 788M wheels are $4,614 for a set of four. So, actually, the 763M wheels come at a savings, not significant cost . . . at least from BMW’s perspective, not the consumers.

///AVM
From the perspective of buying a C and then buying a new set of 763M wheels to "build" a C. Doesn't take into account that you can then sell the 788M wheels.

Yes. This topic is soooooo tired. I want a CS, my ego wants a CS, and I have the means so why not. In a different life scenerio I'd likely buy a pdk GT4. Why, well why not??? Why not an S, or GTS. Same reason for getting a CS. That's the version I would want. At some point I plan to get a 911. Why? Since I was a little kid it was my dream car. I don't really want one any more as a dream, but I still plan to get one. Why, because I can.

Drive what you want. Don't come to a forum to justify your purchases. Come here to gain knowledge and share the passion. It certainly helps to make informed decisions. More importantly everyone needs to be respectful of others. One size doesn't fit all.
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      08-20-2020, 10:20 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
From the perspective of buying a C and then buying a new set of 763M wheels to "build" a C. Doesn't take into account that you can then sell the 788M wheels.

Yes. This topic is soooooo tired. I want a CS, my ego wants a CS, and I have the means so why not. In a different life scenerio I'd likely buy a pdk GT4. Why, well why not??? Why not an S, or GTS. Same reason for getting a CS. That's the version I would want. At some point I plan to get a 911. Why? Since I was a little kid it was my dream car. I don't really want one any more as a dream, but I still plan to get one. Why, because I can.

Drive what you want. Don't come to a forum to justify your purchases. Come here to gain knowledge and share the passion. It certainly helps to make informed decisions. More importantly everyone needs to be respectful of others. One size doesn't fit all.
Amen.
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      08-20-2020, 10:53 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2CS View Post
M2 Competition is it a better deal ?

I thought my M3 E46 SMGII was also a better deal: € 58,500 while CSL cost € 90,000 in 2003 for 17 hp more and yet the differences made the driving pleasure incomparable Was it worth 30k €? I think so !

we can reason in the same way for M3 E30 Evo2 238cv (75,000 €) while M3 E30 215 cv was worth 54,000 € in 1990 for a disproportionate price

At the time already everyone said that a Porsche 944 was a better choice this debate is therefore the even for a long time !!

for me yes it is the same for CS: M2 competition upgraded will be as effective as a CS but it will NEVER be /// M2 CS!
I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.
M2 CS is not going to have 0% depreciation in 4 years, let's be realistic.
Why not? My 2011 1M hasn't lost a penny in resale value since I brought it home.
The 1M is a distinct model with no other trim levels. The M2 CS IS a trim level albeit a good one. I think they might retain more residual value than an M2, but I doubt it will have a 0% depreciation in 4 years. We will see a dip before value goes up to close to MSRP which might take 8-10 years.
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      08-20-2020, 10:59 AM   #126
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Get the CS and drive the hell out of it. Especially when you see a M2C on the road

No point worrying about depreciation as it will tank when the G87 comes out...low mileage M4CS tanked 50% down here in just 2 years. The one saving grace is those optioned with a 6MT will do much much better in value further down in time. Just look at the used market of Ferrari California, F430, Porsche's 997 GT3s and 991 GT3s.

The E46 CSL was BMW's top dog at the time as it was the fastest stable in the M catalogue and was seen as a pure bred. Now nearly 20 years later the hierarchy has all changed. With the new M3/M4 coming out in a few months, setting lap records on every track early next year, the desirability on the M2CS will be overshadowed and even more so when the G87 comes about.

All in all, the CS is a brilliant car. Own it, drive it and be happy.
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      08-20-2020, 11:25 AM   #127
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Get the CS and drive the hell out of it. Especially when you see a M2C on the road

No point worrying about depreciation as it will tank when the G87 comes out...low mileage M4CS tanked 50% down here in just 2 years. The one saving grace is those optioned with a 6MT will do much much better in value further down in time. Just look at the used market of Ferrari California, F430, Porsche's 997 GT3s and 991 GT3s.

The E46 CSL was BMW's top dog at the time as it was the fastest stable in the M catalogue and was seen as a pure bred. Now nearly 20 years later the hierarchy has all changed. With the new M3/M4 coming out in a few months, setting lap records on every track early next year, the desirability on the M2CS will be overshadowed and even more so when the G87 comes about.

All in all, the CS is a brilliant car. Own it, drive it and be happy.
I plan to beat the piss out of mine.
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      08-20-2020, 11:34 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Dave

I think you would agree this whole CS vs Competition vs Porsche thing has become a tired topic . . . you are just about the only person on this forum who comes out and says, “I just want one.” The rest can continue to try and justify their purchase anyway they like.

Moving on, one thing you stated above made me curious. Namely, the 763M wheels 'are a significant cost.' Although I am sure the 763M and 788M wheels can be purchased through several different distributors and cost might vary a bit, I went to one distributor (Alloy Wheels Direct) for direct comparison in cost.

The 763M wheels are $4,195 for a set of four, while the 788M wheels are $4,614 for a set of four. So, actually, the 763M wheels come at a savings, not significant cost . . . at least from BMW’s perspective, not the consumers.

///AVM
From the perspective of buying a C and then buying a new set of 763M wheels to "build" a C. Doesn't take into account that you can then sell the 788M wheels.

Yes. This topic is soooooo tired. I want a CS, my ego wants a CS, and I have the means so why not. In a different life scenerio I'd likely buy a pdk GT4. Why, well why not??? Why not an S, or GTS. Same reason for getting a CS. That's the version I would want. At some point I plan to get a 911. Why? Since I was a little kid it was my dream car. I don't really want one any more as a dream, but I still plan to get one. Why, because I can.

Drive what you want. Don't come to a forum to justify your purchases. Come here to gain knowledge and share the passion. It certainly helps to make informed decisions. More importantly everyone needs to be respectful of others. One size doesn't fit all.
I agree. I got a GT3 and loved it but found it just wasn't a useful car for me. I told friends it was a 3 day a month car and it was too much money for that!
My OG M2 was a every day car if I wanted it to be and I like that!
Everyone's passion is different, that is why there are so many great cars!
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      08-20-2020, 12:00 PM   #129
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Oh yeah, that same dealer MIGHT get 1 more allocation and there is a 5 client wait list...deepest pockets wins the prize.
$30K over the MSRP would put the CS in 911 Carrera S territory which is a much faster car. Why would people overpay for a CS?
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      08-20-2020, 12:43 PM   #130
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$30K over the MSRP would put the CS in 911 Carrera S territory which is a much faster car. Why would people overpay for a CS?
Always a guy/gal with deeper pockets. Some folks can buy whatever they want and money is never a factor.

Edit: on top of the $30k premium they might even put it into storage and not drive it. I think Hendrick here in Charlotte paid 2mil for the first c8 Corvette.
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      08-20-2020, 02:18 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Always a guy/gal with deeper pockets. Some folks can buy whatever they want and money is never a factor.

Edit: on top of the $30k premium they might even put it into storage and not drive it. I think Hendrick here in Charlotte paid 2mil for the first c8 Corvette.
Dave

You have touched on a common and unfortunate theme. . . it seems the more people spend on their cars, the less they get driven.

Look at the used Porsche GT variants typically showing up in the market. Almost always have less then 5K miles and fine print indicating, ‘vehicle has never been tracked.’ Incomprehensible from where I sit.

On a related note, you may recall I have one such buddy who owns more cars than he has garage space. His new Shelby GT350 sat in my garage for over the past year, save for the occasion I had to wake it up and take it for a quick spin.

On the topic of ‘I just want one’ . . . The sound. The NA engine and its linear pull all the way to red line. What a fucking car . . . still, nothing I have any desire to own.

So, what does my buddy do last week . . . he buys a Shelby GT500. I am out of garage space, so he found a climate-controlled warehouse to house the vehicle. J’Christ, already, drive the damn thing.

///AVM
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      08-20-2020, 02:24 PM   #132
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That GT500 is intriguing. On another note the Ram TRX could be a hoot.
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