Chris Harris reviews the M2 CS vs his M2 Competition

///AVM · 08-21-2020, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

There is an unclaimed heritage edition at my dealer as well. The M4 doesn't do it for me (personally liked the M3 styling better than the M4 throughout this last generation). The irony I thought was the heritage is the same price basically as the M2 CS. But the bigger car, DCT only, etc make it of little interest to me. Doesn't have the bulgy hips etc of the M2 that also attract me to the "little" M.

The heritage sitting around, after my dealer had trouble getting rid of their M4 CS, and considering they have a wait list after me on the M2 CS also I think says something.

SDH

Do not get sucked in . . . I was not trying to convince you to want what I would want if we did not have the M2C or CS.

You said 'dunno' what you would get if no access to a M2CS. I was just sharing which BMW peaks my interest outside the M2C.

Do not think I need to share what vehicle captured my interest outside BMW lineup.

///AVM

sdhotwn · 08-21-2020, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

There is an unclaimed heritage edition at my dealer as well. The M4 doesn't do it for me (personally liked the M3 styling better than the M4 throughout this last generation). The irony I thought was the heritage is the same price basically as the M2 CS. But the bigger car, DCT only, etc make it of little interest to me. Doesn't have the bulgy hips etc of the M2 that also attract me to the "little" M.

The heritage sitting around, after my dealer had trouble getting rid of their M4 CS, and considering they have a wait list after me on the M2 CS also I think says something.

SDH

Do not get sucked in . . . I was not trying to convince you to want what I would want if we did not have the M2C or CS.

You said 'dunno' what you would get if no access to a M2CS. I was just sharing which BMW peaks my interest outside the M2C.

Do not think I need to share what vehicle captured my interest outside BMW lineup.

///AVM

Lol. Yeah no worries. I did appreciate that you had another seductress though

. As we say pretty often in my household. You do you!

Davil · 08-21-2020, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbomeister

So you are saying . . .

No, you vomited all that bullshit out of thin air . . .

I will assume English is a second language in Cyprus and it comes with issues related to reading comprehension.

Regardless, I get it man . . . it is either a CS or it is shit from your perspective.

///AVM

Racist as well as being ridiculously verbose. You could be the subject of a psychiatric convention. So, so, weird.

F87EVO · 08-21-2020, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbomeister

So you are saying . . .

No, you vomited all that bullshit out of thin air . . .

I will assume English is a second language in Cyprus and it comes with issues related to reading comprehension.

Regardless, I get it man . . . it is either a CS or it is shit from your perspective.

///AVM

Yeah its a second language for sure mistakes on comprehension are made not in the way where you couldnt understand what im saying .. anyway , i guess we couldnt discuss on any thread

:

F87EVO · 08-22-2020, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Marketing 2200 cars with a salty price-tag as "limited edition" (M2 CS): BMW M didn't resort to that kind of 'scarcity marketing' for the E46 M3 CSL, M3 CS or M4 CS and produced as many as production capacity allowed (but demand was relatively limited anyway because of the high price-point). A "1 of 2200" plaque would have been cringey.

"The M4 CS is not a limited series, just limited by production capacity. When we started the project we knew that it was going to be sold out anyway." (Frank van Meel - former BMW M boss) (source: here).

1383 E46 M3 CSL were built. The target of 1200 cars for the M3 CS was met (1263 cars). Not sure whether the target of 3000 cars for the M4 CS was met by February 2020 (through June 2019 2043 cars had been built).

(source: here)

But they have called ltd edition some other models . At least , they called it limited edition and they imo they made the more special CS model - not to say M3/4 CS werent special - but the 2CS had unique parts , not borrowed from the GTS , on the 3CS they didnt even attempt to change the door panels , where the 4CS had them ready from the GTS - as well taillights. Interior differences minor , center console etc were normal.But again, i can say the 2CS has more unique parts and looks than the other CS , not only it came with a manual transmition , but also the differences to the comp model were bigger compared to the 3/4CS and 3/4Comp. For sure calling that car a limited edition might be a marketing thing , but why not ? Or why not calling the E46 CSL , F8x M3/4 CS ltd editions as well?

The discussion about this , was not made in order to discuss the limited edition or their marketing plan . The discussion about it started where my friend ///AVM told why not to go with the M4 heritage edition if the only thing matters is the limited numbers - which apparently are less than the 2CS . And i just wanted to explain that the heritage edition or whatever edition - doesnt make a car special - just like the 2CS , isnt special because of the ltd edition stamp. Its also unique as a car , you know the differences. The limited edition stamp , just add to the car some more hype , and some desirability , - only - if the car its special too.. Putting a ltd edition plate on a blue and white 320i and naming it - Bavarian edition - doesnt make it any special . I know the discussion moved into another direction , but thats my thoughts about it.

sdhotwn · 08-22-2020, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbomeister

But they have called ltd edition some other models . At least , they called it limited edition and they imo they made the more special CS model - not to say M3/4 CS werent special - but the 2CS had unique parts , not borrowed from the GTS , on the 3CS they didnt even attempt to change the door panels , where the 4CS had them ready from the GTS - as well taillights. Interior differences minor , center console etc were normal.But again, i can say the 2CS has more unique parts and looks than the other CS , not only it came with a manual transmition , but also the differences to the comp model were bigger compared to the 3/4CS and 3/4Comp. For sure calling that car a limited edition might be a marketing thing , but why not ? Or why not calling the E46 CSL , F8x M3/4 CS ltd editions as well?

The discussion about this , was not made in order to discuss the limited edition or their marketing plan . The discussion about it started where my friend ///AVM told why not to go with the M4 heritage edition if the only thing matters is the limited numbers - which apparently are less than the 2CS . And i just wanted to explain that the heritage edition or whatever edition - doesnt make a car special - just like the 2CS , isnt special because of the ltd edition stamp. Its also unique as a car , you know the differences. The limited edition stamp , just add to the car some more hype , and some desirability , - only - if the car its special too.. Putting a ltd edition plate on a blue and white 320i and naming it - Bavarian edition - doesnt make it any special . I know the discussion moved into another direction , but thats my thoughts about it.

Here's a few good examples that I think reinforce your point

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...rsary-edition/

https://jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-e...-so-1675339097

M3 Number 86 · 08-23-2020, 12:59 AM

Can someone tell me the upgrades you get from C to CS?

C has s55 right?

M2CS · 08-23-2020, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Can someone tell me the upgrades you get from C to CS?

C has s55 right?

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1666448

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

If you expect any M2C owner to disavow their decision, you've lost your mind! Even a guy like Chris Harris feels the need to justify themselves. I've been down this road with many BMW drivers playing down my 1M as just hype. I write most of these off as jealous they didn't buy one.

I had a OG M2 and loved it. Was it worth $15k more then my 1M, yes it was. Do I believe the CS will be worth the extra $25k, yes. You can't pull up to any stop light without seeing 3 other BMW's so for me, exclusivity is worth some amount of money even if it just car people who recognize it.

I had a beautiful E30 M3 that most people thought was just another old BMW, but to car people it was an event and that is kind of fun. NC DMV valued that car at $2,200. Last time I saw it sell it went for $60K. Worth it? I'm sure it was to the guy that bought it.

I'd say buying cars for most of us on this site requires two things, first you have to have a passion for that car and see something you love in it. Secondly, you must have the money and the timing must be right. I planned the purchase of my 135 perfectly timing wise to get a 1M. I did the same thing with the lease of my M4 and purchase of my M2 to get the M2 CS.

Tothe lucky few that get one, yes it will be worth it, to anybody else, no it won't be it's likely that simple.

JHall, have you heard when you can place an order?

Gen Manager friend at M Dealership said regional BMW NA Rep says Sept or Oct.

I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!

Are you sure the US will be the last one ?

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime503

M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?

"why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?"

Because it's not a BMW

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime503

M2CS looks great, but it's way too expensive compared to the M2C. At the M2C's pricepoint, it makes sense to get the M2C over the equivalent Porsche (a base Cayman). At the M2CS's pricepoint, why the hell wouldn't you get a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0?

In Australia the GT4 cost 206k AUD vs $139k AUD for the CS. Even the GTS 4.0 is $179k AUD. There's not many options for the CS as it's pretty much loaded (cf DCT and CCBs) whereas the Porsche option lists extend out into to stratosphere. Perhaps that's why the CS is being distributed so globally and not predominantly into the US market?

With DCT, CCB, wheels and Cup2's, and metallic paint, the M2CS is more like $166k+ in Australia. And on top of that you have 9% SD and registration plus Dealer Delivery as high as $10k) then you're looking at close to $185k on the road

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

I'm with you on this. Chris Harris bought the M2 C and then spent a bunch of money to make it better but it's still not a CS.
And as all of us know, money spent on "upgrades" are pretty much "zero return on investment".
So like buy a C for $60kUSD add $10k car depreciates over 4 years down to maybe what $40k?
While CS is $85k, no money thrown at "upgrades" and it's likely to stay at $80-85k in 4 years because of limited quantities.

I believe that no-one claims that an M2C (even if heavily modded) is an M2 CS or a wannabe M2 CS. Both cars are siblings of a great F87 bloodline. An M2C will always be an M2C and an M2 CS will always be an M2 CS. And the M2 CS will always be at the top of the F87 pecking order.

But any claim that the M2 CS is to the M2C, what the the E46 M3 CSL was to the the E46 M3, is flawed IMHO. BMW did quite some surgery on the E46 M3 to develop the E46 M3 CSL, shaving off 110 kg (1495 kg reduced to 1385 kg), never called it "limited edition" and made 1383 cars. This E46 M3 extraordinaire justified its 50% markup. One cannot say the same about the M2 CS. Great car, undoubtedly, but compared to the extra mile(s) walked by BMW M for the E46 M3 CSL (see for example here, here and here), BMW M took the easy road for the M2 CS and charged a flatteringly immodest markup when considering the M2C price (and discounts), regardless the marketing trick of "only 2200 cars" (817 more M2 CS than E46 M3 CSL or almost 60% more).

E46 M3 CSL: 1383 built (see here);
E92 M3 GTS ("limited edition"): 150 built (see here);
E90 M3 CRT ("limited edition"): 67 built (see here);
1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built (see here);
M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built (see here);
M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built (see here);
M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) (see here);
M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built (see here);
M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled (2020) (see here).

When will the final production numbers be known?

RyanBMW · 08-23-2020, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

If you expect any M2C owner to disavow their decision, you've lost your mind! Even a guy like Chris Harris feels the need to justify themselves. I've been down this road with many BMW drivers playing down my 1M as just hype. I write most of these off as jealous they didn't buy one.

I had a OG M2 and loved it. Was it worth $15k more then my 1M, yes it was. Do I believe the CS will be worth the extra $25k, yes. You can't pull up to any stop light without seeing 3 other BMW's so for me, exclusivity is worth some amount of money even if it just car people who recognize it.

I had a beautiful E30 M3 that most people thought was just another old BMW, but to car people it was an event and that is kind of fun. NC DMV valued that car at $2,200. Last time I saw it sell it went for $60K. Worth it? I'm sure it was to the guy that bought it.

I'd say buying cars for most of us on this site requires two things, first you have to have a passion for that car and see something you love in it. Secondly, you must have the money and the timing must be right. I planned the purchase of my 135 perfectly timing wise to get a 1M. I did the same thing with the lease of my M4 and purchase of my M2 to get the M2 CS.

Tothe lucky few that get one, yes it will be worth it, to anybody else, no it won't be it's likely that simple.

JHall, have you heard when you can place an order?

Gen Manager friend at M Dealership said regional BMW NA Rep says Sept or Oct.

I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!

Are you sure the US will be the last one ?

I am assuming we are because it's the end of August and still no allocations to built! And if there are, let's say beginning of September, we won't see the car until December, so if that's not last, I don't know what is.

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hegge

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

I agree, I know a salesman that told me a guy bought their allocation for $30k above sticker...$30k!

I will say it's a special car and will be a collectors item years down the line though, but $30k over hell no. Also mind you the buyer has no idea the color or build the car is coming in or the transmission. That's just nuts.

Crazy. So there is a bidding war for allocations?

I would've sold him my allocation for only $29k over

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I disagree to some extent about the justification of the price increase. Mainly in that it depends on where the end user places the value. If you place the value on overall performance improvement, then it likely will falls short of expectations. If you value the "lipstick" additions, then I believe the cost is justified.

1. CS owners identify that the adaptive dampers make the car more pleasant to drive.
2. The interior is more premium with better leather interior.
3. Included wheels are significant cost.
4. CFRP additions are plentiful and costly.
5. CS owners report a different driving dynamic.
6. It does make more power in factory warrantied form.

Dave

I think you would agree this whole CS vs Competition vs Porsche thing has become a tired topic . . . you are just about the only person on this forum who comes out and says, "I just want one." The rest can continue to try and justify their purchase anyway they like.

Moving on, one thing you stated above made me curious. Namely, the 763M wheels 'are a significant cost.' Although I am sure the 763M and 788M wheels can be purchased through several different distributors and cost might vary a bit, I went to one distributor (Alloy Wheels Direct) for direct comparison in cost.

The 763M wheels are $4,195 for a set of four, while the 788M wheels are $4,614 for a set of four. So, actually, the 763M wheels come at a savings, not significant cost . . . at least from BMW's perspective, not the consumers.

///AVM

I just want one!
(Does that help?)

Simply put, "I just want one" isn't good enough; you first have to pay for it lol

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwemersonrw

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

Damn that blue is ugly, it'd put me off buying one altogether.

BMW should have given us a truly special color, and a car that was significantly lighter. As it is the Comp is stealing the CS's Fire. At least they put ugly wheels on the Comp to make at least some gap.

I have to agree. I love the m2 CS and would consider it but that color is not my fav. Reminds me of when Honda made the s2000 CR in that ugly apex blue. Wish they made the CS available in hockenhiem silver. Just my opinion *

I was under the impression they did offer the CS in H. silver

rwemersonrw · 08-23-2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwemersonrw

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

Damn that blue is ugly, it'd put me off buying one altogether.

BMW should have given us a truly special color, and a car that was significantly lighter. As it is the Comp is stealing the CS's Fire. At least they put ugly wheels on the Comp to make at least some gap.

I have to agree. I love the m2 CS and would consider it but that color is not my fav. Reminds me of when Honda made the s2000 CR in that ugly apex blue. Wish they made the CS available in hockenhiem silver. Just my opinion *

I was under the impression they did offer the CS in H. silver

They do. I was mistaken. I went to my local dealer Friday and the rep was not helpful at all.

ROBM2C · 08-23-2020, 11:13 AM

Ok so the M2 comp is the obvious choice here . 30k extra for a car with the same motor is always a suckers bet . Add ohlins ttx, a tune , a crank hub fix , and an exhaust - heck you can even upgrade the turbos and have a CS killer for the same price .

MadBimmeRad · 08-23-2020, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

If you expect any M2C owner to disavow their decision, you've lost your mind! Even a guy like Chris Harris feels the need to justify themselves. I've been down this road with many BMW drivers playing down my 1M as just hype. I write most of these off as jealous they didn't buy one.

I had a OG M2 and loved it. Was it worth $15k more then my 1M, yes it was. Do I believe the CS will be worth the extra $25k, yes. You can't pull up to any stop light without seeing 3 other BMW's so for me, exclusivity is worth some amount of money even if it just car people who recognize it.

I had a beautiful E30 M3 that most people thought was just another old BMW, but to car people it was an event and that is kind of fun. NC DMV valued that car at $2,200. Last time I saw it sell it went for $60K. Worth it? I'm sure it was to the guy that bought it.

I'd say buying cars for most of us on this site requires two things, first you have to have a passion for that car and see something you love in it. Secondly, you must have the money and the timing must be right. I planned the purchase of my 135 perfectly timing wise to get a 1M. I did the same thing with the lease of my M4 and purchase of my M2 to get the M2 CS.

Tothe lucky few that get one, yes it will be worth it, to anybody else, no it won't be it's likely that simple.

JHall, have you heard when you can place an order?

Gen Manager friend at M Dealership said regional BMW NA Rep says Sept or Oct.

I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!

Are you sure the US will be the last one ?

I am assuming we are because it's the end of August and still no allocations to built! And if there are, let's say beginning of September, we won't see the car until December, so if that's not last, I don't know what is.

Well, I'm told my build-date is October 12th. the reason they put back the production for ROW is that they cannot build any other vehicles for Europe with S55 after August 31st due to new emission laws kicking in on September 1st

Which begs the question, given they were already behind schedule with many platforms due to COVID-19 closures, will they actually be able to fulfill 2200 builds?

rwemersonrw · 08-23-2020, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBM2C

Ok so the M2 comp is the obvious choice here . 30k extra for a car with the same motor is always a suckers bet . Add ohlins ttx, a tune , a crank hub fix , and an exhaust - heck you can even upgrade the turbos and have a CS killer for the same price .

I guess if you know what you're doing. 🤷*♂️

rwemersonrw · 08-23-2020, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall1957

If you expect any M2C owner to disavow their decision, you've lost your mind! Even a guy like Chris Harris feels the need to justify themselves. I've been down this road with many BMW drivers playing down my 1M as just hype. I write most of these off as jealous they didn't buy one.

I had a OG M2 and loved it. Was it worth $15k more then my 1M, yes it was. Do I believe the CS will be worth the extra $25k, yes. You can't pull up to any stop light without seeing 3 other BMW's so for me, exclusivity is worth some amount of money even if it just car people who recognize it.

I had a beautiful E30 M3 that most people thought was just another old BMW, but to car people it was an event and that is kind of fun. NC DMV valued that car at $2,200. Last time I saw it sell it went for $60K. Worth it? I'm sure it was to the guy that bought it.

I'd say buying cars for most of us on this site requires two things, first you have to have a passion for that car and see something you love in it. Secondly, you must have the money and the timing must be right. I planned the purchase of my 135 perfectly timing wise to get a 1M. I did the same thing with the lease of my M4 and purchase of my M2 to get the M2 CS.

Tothe lucky few that get one, yes it will be worth it, to anybody else, no it won't be it's likely that simple.

JHall, have you heard when you can place an order?

Gen Manager friend at M Dealership said regional BMW NA Rep says Sept or Oct.

I wonder if the US will get the CS as a MY 2021 since 2020 is almost over! That would be interesting, and I think the US deserves a MY 2021 because we are the last one to get it!!

Are you sure the US will be the last one ?

I am assuming we are because it's the end of August and still no allocations to built! And if there are, let's say beginning of September, we won't see the car until December, so if that's not last, I don't know what is.

Well, I'm told my build-date is October 12th. the reason they put back the production for ROW is that they cannot build any other vehicles for Europe with S55 after August 31st due to new emission laws kicking in on September 1st

Which begs the question, given they were already behind schedule with many platforms due to COVID-19 closures, will they actually be able to fulfill 2200 builds?

Damn so you won't get it until the winter of 2020/2021?

///AVM · 08-23-2020, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBM2C

. . . 30k extra for a car with the same motor is always a suckers bet . . .

Rob

What are your thoughts on $13,400 extra?

Please consider the questions rhetorical. . . the Porsche forums spend all day, every day going back-and-forth trying convince one another which is 'better.'

I am not convinced either of the two even has the best engine available for the chassis . . . but that is a whole other topical digression for which an entire Porsche forum also exists.

///AVM

08-23-2020, 12:59 AM	#161
M3 Number 86 Major General 3221 Rep 6,218 Posts Drives: black m3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: pasadena iTrader: (1)	Can someone tell me the upgrades you get from C to CS? C has s55 right? __________________ dadmobile IG: @M3number86 youtube: track vids
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08-23-2020, 11:13 AM	#172
ROBM2C Lieutenant 314 Rep 438 Posts Drives: BMW M2C , DATSUN 260z, Porche Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Ottawa Canada iTrader: (0)	Ok so the M2 comp is the obvious choice here . 30k extra for a car with the same motor is always a suckers bet . Add ohlins ttx, a tune , a crank hub fix , and an exhaust - heck you can even upgrade the turbos and have a CS killer for the same price .
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