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      09-09-2019, 03:21 AM   #2619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005zcpM3 View Post
For those of us that missed the BMW 1M Train. I think the next sensible choice for a grade A collector M car would be the M2 CSL. I just can’t pay 55k for a out of warrenty BMW with current financing rates with 40kms or more on the clock. All previous CSL models have held their value great. Plus, buying new you get warranty, more favourable financing options, all paperwork, and can select the options. If it’s coming in a 6 speed and if a 1 year run, I think it’s a no brainer given how the GT4, GT3, and other limited runs have turned out well.
Hmm; don’t forget a BMW is not a Porsche....and Porsche has the “real” sportscar image and is overhyped. A base Cayman is still a Porsche and the GT4 the most intense version...you could say the same of the M2 CS, but it’s still the sportiest model of just a plain BMW 2 series. Not the same exotic level as Porsche. Personally I don’t believe the M2 CS
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      09-09-2019, 08:05 AM   #2620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Options featuring in the options list. In Europe we don't have an equivalent of "M2 Executive Package". It's more à la carte instead of all-in.
For perspective. What would a loaded up M2C cost in Europe? I recall ~65k US

I look at the pricing of the images and remove the wheels/brakes. That leaves about 25k in add-ons. Assuming 50% of retail for this parts would put at about 78k. That's not doing any money conversation and assuming US pricing. 65k for base C and another 12.5k in parts. I think this starts to jive with pricing when considering the cost of an M4C.

My guess is the M2CS slides in between the starting price of a base M4 and M4C. If a base M2C is around 60k, then upper 60s for a base CS would include a premium for being exclusive and slightly better wheels. Then start tacking on packages.

Last edited by medphysdave; 09-09-2019 at 08:16 AM..
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      09-09-2019, 10:38 AM   #2621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
For perspective. What would a loaded up M2C cost in Europe? I recall ~65k US
It's actually a lot more than that - fully loaded M2C would set you back around 86k US$.

The uber-performance M2C Artemis posted is way over 123.000 US$ at current exchange rates.

You would have to be the biggest BMW fanboy on planet earth to spend this much on an M2C..

A lot of other cars with considerably better performance come to mind.

Cheers
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      09-09-2019, 11:08 AM   #2622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
My guess is the M2CS slides in between the starting price of a base M4 and M4C. If a base M2C is around 60k, then upper 60s for a base CS would include a premium for being exclusive and slightly better wheels. Then start tacking on packages.
I still stand by my Spring 2017 guesstimate (±150% compared to the base model list price). Even more ever since I recently saw the fancy price-tag of that Über M2 Competition proudly on display at BMW Welt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
The m4 CS costs 40.000 euro more then an normal one! Crazy!
i am holding my breath for the m2 CS.
I rather see an M2 With a manual and a b58 engine for normal money!
As indicated in the past: E46 M3 price (± €40K) x ±1.5 = E46 M3 CSL price (± €60K).
Seems that for the M4 CS (€116K) BMW also quotes ±150% of the M4 price (and mind you: several goodies are optional).
My guesstimate for the M2 CS pricing remains: M2 price x ±1.5 = M2 CS price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For the 'M2 vs M2 CS' price guesstimate, I said before that IMHO the 'E46 M3 vs E46 M3 CSL' yard stick won't be far off base: ±150% (also keep in mind that some base M2 options may be stock on the M2 CS and that some base M2 stock/optional features may not be available on the M2 CS and vice versa).
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      09-09-2019, 11:15 AM   #2623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I still stand by my Spring 2017 guesstimate (±150% compared to the base model list price).
Got an info today by somebody high up at BMW that we're gonna be looking at around 95k € base which would prove your point Artemis - caught me off guard though I must say.

Was hoping for 80k € base.

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      09-09-2019, 11:30 AM   #2624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapman1977 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I still stand by my Spring 2017 guesstimate (±150% compared to the base model list price).
Got an info today by somebody high up at BMW that we're gonna be looking at around 95k € base which would prove your point Artemis - caught me off guard though I must say.
Was hoping for 80k € base.
Q: Hey, what's that weird sound ?
A: That, my friend, is the sound of lots of enthusiasts' hearts breaking right now.

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      09-09-2019, 11:33 AM   #2625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapman1977 View Post
Got an info today by somebody high up at BMW that we're gonna be looking at around 95k € base which would prove your point Artemis - caught me off guard though I must say.
Was hoping for 80k € base.
Q: Hey, what's that weird sound ?
A: That, my friend, is the sound of lots of enthusiasts' hearts breaking right now.
Guess I should just deal on an m2 comp now.
The math on google wasn't pretty .
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      09-09-2019, 11:53 AM   #2626
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This thread is now making me sad. So what is this going to translate to in US dollars. It doesn't seem to be as easy as converting to dollars as the cars seem less expensive in the US. Sadly it's starting to look like this or a C8 won't be a choice
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      09-09-2019, 02:43 PM   #2627
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Yes what is the currency translation to USD?
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      09-09-2019, 03:38 PM   #2628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Yes what is the currency translation to USD?
This may seem ridiculous, but...... What I seem to see is that you can take the price in Euro., Subtract 5-6k. Use the final figure as dollars. 95k euro ends up 90k US.

Can anyone support my nonsense?

Edit:

Using the 1.5x multiplier.

Base M2 ~53k = 79.5k

M2C ~ 59k = 88.5k

Last edited by medphysdave; 09-09-2019 at 03:55 PM..
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      09-09-2019, 03:53 PM   #2629
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$90k would be $10k more than a 718 GTS. Too much for a non CSL.
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      09-09-2019, 04:01 PM   #2630
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I could see a 95k€ loaded or $90k loaded in their respective markets. Putting a 6MT non CCB spec right at $80k. Obviously BMW will do whatever they want.

Even $80k is rich, but $90k, damn. The only positive to an excessively high price is that it makes it easy to say no. I'll be sad, but it's an easy no.
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      09-09-2019, 04:12 PM   #2631
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If it’s nudging 90k it needs to be a CSL

Otherwise I’ll very happily give it a miss and see how they fare as AUC..
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      09-09-2019, 07:55 PM   #2632
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If this is a 90k+ car......I'm basically going to look for a nice low mile 2016 Cayman GT4
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      09-09-2019, 08:00 PM   #2633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
If this is a 90k+ car......I'm basically going to look for a nice low mile 2016 Cayman GT4
^^This - no way should this be pushing $90k. I was hoping for $75-80k and I think that's generous....otherwise I'm going for the GT4 next year!
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      09-09-2019, 08:15 PM   #2634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapman1977 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I still stand by my Spring 2017 guesstimate (±150% compared to the base model list price).
Got an info today by somebody high up at BMW that we're gonna be looking at around 95k € base which would prove your point Artemis - caught me off guard though I must say.
Was hoping for 80k € base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Using the 1.5x multiplier.
Base M2 ~$53k = $79.5k
M2C ~$59k = $88.5k
± €95K for the M2 CS:
  • ± 60% extra compared to the original M2 (2016 list price);
  • ± 45% extra compared to the M2 Competition (2019 list price).
If we do that math for the US we end up around $85K. Time will tell.

Quite likely the M2 CS price-setting may be perceived by lots of enthusiasts as 'the elephant in the room'.

///Mbitious
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      09-09-2019, 08:17 PM   #2635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
This may seem ridiculous, but...... What I seem to see is that you can take the price in Euro., Subtract 5-6k. Use the final figure as dollars. 95k euro ends up 90k US.
Can anyone support my nonsense?
Edit:
Using the 1.5x multiplier.
Base M2 ~53k = 79.5k
M2C ~ 59k = 88.5k
Yep - 80 to 85 has been my guess for a while now. I think that’s too much for what I’m guessing we will get, but I’m sure they’re going to go pretty high with the starting price.
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      09-09-2019, 08:58 PM   #2636
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Can someone comment on the production numbers of the M3/4cs?

Sounds like M2cs is going to be around 2000-2200.

So, how does this compare?

We all know the M3/4cs are sitting around at dealerships.....only way that doesn't happen to the M2cs is if that production number is much lower than the M3/4cs and of course not an insane price point.
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      09-09-2019, 09:17 PM   #2637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
± €95K for the M2 CS:
  • ± 60% extra compared to the original M2 (2016 list price);
  • ± 45% extra compared to the M2 Competition (2019 list price).
If we do that math for the US we end up around $85K. Time will tell.

Quite likely the M2 CS price-setting may be perceived by lots of enthusiasts as 'the elephant in the room'.

///Mbitious
Attachment 2138643
Well Artemis,

I'll be waiting on you to tell us if we should open our purse strings because it's worth it, or move along because it's an mperformance hodgepodge.
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      09-09-2019, 09:26 PM   #2638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Can someone comment on the production numbers of the M3/4cs?

Sounds like M2cs is going to be around 2000-2200.

So, how does this compare?

We all know the M3/4cs are sitting around at dealerships.....only way that doesn't happen to the M2cs is if that production number is much lower than the M3/4cs and of course not an insane price point.
1200 M3CS. Unknown number of M4CS.

Curious to see pricing as well. But realistically, I'll probably get one regardless. I think it'll be a special car.
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      09-09-2019, 09:58 PM   #2639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Can someone comment on the production numbers of the M3/4cs?
Sounds like M2cs is going to be around 2000-2200.
So, how does this compare?
We all know the M3/4cs are sitting around at dealerships.....only way that doesn't happen to the M2cs is if that production number is much lower than the M3/4cs and of course not an insane price point.
Here you go:
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - produced until Feb 2020 (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 until Dec 2020 (see here).
From the M4 GTS brochure (see here): "700" became 803.
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      09-09-2019, 11:36 PM   #2640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Can someone comment on the production numbers of the M3/4cs?
Sounds like M2cs is going to be around 2000-2200.
So, how does this compare?
We all know the M3/4cs are sitting around at dealerships.....only way that doesn't happen to the M2cs is if that production number is much lower than the M3/4cs and of course not an insane price point.
Here you go:
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS: 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM: 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - still produced (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS: 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 onwards (see here).
From the M4 GTS brochure (see here): "700" became 803.
Attachment 2138737
Attachment 2138738
Thank you Artemis

So, given what we know at the moment....what's to say the 2200 doesn't turn into 6000???

Many enthusiasts looking forward to owning a limited run automobile may shell out extra cash to do so.....and BMW may produce more than originally intended.
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