[xander_g]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

I promise you 95% of those M owners couldn't tell the difference between a ZF auto and a double clutch if they were not informed of what transmission the car has.

Agree

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by JsL

Which car company does DCT implementation better? Not trying to be a smart a**, just curious.

Porsche???

[xander_g]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

Porsche

The PDK is just phenomenal

[StealthFish]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

No, I haven't...one of my sport bikes.

Just wondering here, have you tried to set the DCT into a higher or more bars shifting mode? That could just be your case and that the DCT is in all out comfort mode so it shift much slower, slowing down the clutch engagement of the transmission as well. That could be why you're not moving as fast or you have that lag? Does the 1 series have DCT that can be controlled like the M models? Never been in a 1 series. Does all DCT have that mode no matter what series it goes into?

That could be your simplest solution and you just have to set the mode higher to have your fix. It is because I did not see once that you spoke about changing the modes nor anyone else.

About the ZF-8, my wife has the 435i GC with that transmission. It is smooth and quick so I like that transmission. I think it is just because I know that the DCT is unique to the M or a higher model car, I would love to keep it still. I am 50/50 and if it goes to the ZF-8, I would welcome it. The new M5 is stated to have the ZF-8 in replacement of the DCT, so why not?

[jaehshim]

over the past few decades, the trend of AMG, RS, M has been pretty similar.
I could tell BMW is SO going back to ZF auto than problem inducing, clunky DCT, just like the Audi S/RS going back to ZF automatics rather than recent DSGs.

[Mantii]

Will there be any week without some BS coming from BMW? They truly have been on a roll lately. I am starting to get pissed off. ****!

[Dave07997S]

Hell, even the new 2018 Mustang is coming with a 10spd. auto...

Dave

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by StealthFish

Just wondering here, have you tried to set the DCT into a higher or more bars shifting mode? That could just be your case and that the DCT is in all out comfort mode so it shift much slower, slowing down the clutch engagement of the transmission as well. That could be why you're not moving as fast or you have that lag? Does the 1 series have DCT that can be controlled like the M models? Never been in a 1 series. Does all DCT have that mode no matter what series it goes into?

That could be your simplest solution and you just have to set the mode higher to have your fix. It is because I did not see once that you spoke about changing the modes nor anyone else.

About the ZF-8, my wife has the 435i GC with that transmission. It is smooth and quick so I like that transmission. I think it is just because I know that the DCT is unique to the M or a higher model car, I would love to keep it still. I am 50/50 and if it goes to the ZF-8, I would welcome it. The new M5 is stated to have the ZF-8 in replacement of the DCT, so why not?

I had a DCT on my 2011 335is. Great car by the way. Would still have it if I didn't get to happy with the throttle on an on ramp and crash it. Anyway. The DCT In that non M car only had a "sport" button which did open up the shifting a little bit. It didn't have the same setup (customization) that we have on the F80/82s. I'm assuming it's the same way on the OPs 1 series.

Not to get off topic but the exhaust sound was awesome in that car. Better then our lawnmowers.

[ginginha]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I don't know but the topic is BMW's implementation. I didn't say another company's DCT implementation was better. Just said how BMW released a product to the public with the problems the DCT has is just shameful. I get others haven't experienced the problems I or others that have the problems I noted above. But for those that haven't experienced the problems, it can get downright dangerous. I've learned to work around the problems when they do crop up. But I won't let my wife drive my car because if you don't expect the problem nor have experienced it, it'll lead to a high probability of a crash.

There are plenty of us on this board that have complained about the problems and sought various remedies. One person posted they just bought a 135is and is in the middle of trying to get the dealer/BMW to buy back the car due to the throttle issues.

The DCT is great if you're in a track situation where speeds don't drop below 20 MPH. But most of these cars don't live 100% on the track. BMW should have done their homework and worked on the transmission's behavior outside of the track especially in stop and go traffic. You won't understand when you're creeping along in stop and go traffic, hit the gas, and get 2 to 3 seconds of dead pedal with no movement from the car. Or when there is an opening where you're trying to merge into traffic, you hit the gas, the car creeps into the opening and the spacing you had now becomes you staring a the grill of the car almost smashing into you. None of what I've described are exaggerations and those that have this problem will 100% backup what I've said. And I haven't even gone into the car jumping forward with my foot on the brake which only some people with the DCT problems have experienced. I have a friend who is a BMW tech at the dealership I go to get my car serviced. He told me he finally got a chance to experience and understand the complaints I had about the DCT when he was doing a CPO check out of a 135i with a DCT. And said it's totally unacceptable for a car to drive like that.

Due to when I bought my car and my desire to buy new, I was stuck with getting an auto/DCT. But since I got stuck with an auto, I would have preferred to have the previous ZF over this DCT any day.

Yep, I had that same "dead pedal" problem with my 135 and it was quite dangerous. When you slowed to near stopping speeds but then chose to hit the gas, you could get nothing for way too long. I nearly got t-boned making a left turn one time. Loved the DCT otherwise. At the time, the shift speeds and the ferocity of the shifts were otherworldly.

My F80 doesn't seem to exhibit this behavior, but it holds second gear almost to a complete stop. I'm not sure if it was designed this way to overcome the aforementioned problem, but I've often wondered about it.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Jklad

Maybe he means automatics are better and more reliable for the customers to drive so that we (Bmw)don't have to pay for driver error issues that result in transmission/clutch warranty repairs for Bmws that put out more than 450 hp and high torque. Follow the moneys.

I'll stop buying Bmw when manuals go away. At that point might as well go EV

Not to mention easier and quicker for a service department to diagnose ( plug in computer to DX auto box - tell customer trans has failed and needs an entire new unit ) vs a manual which many have a minor issue like a clutch master or slave cylinder , throw out bearing or just worn clutch disc, all of which provide less profit in parts for the parts department when they fail.

I can only imagine the number of people that simply trade in their vehicle when faced with an automatic transmission repair bill.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

I promise you 95% of those M owners couldn't tell the difference between a ZF auto and a double clutch if they were not informed of what transmission the car has.

That's because there is no difference.
They are both automatics

[AD18]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I don't know but the topic is BMW's implementation. I didn't say another company's DCT implementation was better. Just said how BMW released a product to the public with the problems the DCT has is just shameful. I get others haven't experienced the problems I or others that have the problems I noted above. But for those that haven't experienced the problems, it can get downright dangerous. I've learned to work around the problems when they do crop up. But I won't let my wife drive my car because if you don't expect the problem nor have experienced it, it'll lead to a high probability of a crash.

There are plenty of us on this board that have complained about the problems and sought various remedies. One person posted they just bought a 135is and is in the middle of trying to get the dealer/BMW to buy back the car due to the throttle issues.

The DCT is great if you're in a track situation where speeds don't drop below 20 MPH. But most of these cars don't live 100% on the track. BMW should have done their homework and worked on the transmission's behavior outside of the track especially in stop and go traffic. You won't understand when you're creeping along in stop and go traffic, hit the gas, and get 2 to 3 seconds of dead pedal with no movement from the car. Or when there is an opening where you're trying to merge into traffic, you hit the gas, the car creeps into the opening and the spacing you had now becomes you staring a the grill of the car almost smashing into you. None of what I've described are exaggerations and those that have this problem will 100% backup what I've said. And I haven't even gone into the car jumping forward with my foot on the brake which only some people with the DCT problems have experienced. I have a friend who is a BMW tech at the dealership I go to get my car serviced. He told me he finally got a chance to experience and understand the complaints I had about the DCT when he was doing a CPO check out of a 135i with a DCT. And said it's totally unacceptable for a car to drive like that.

Due to when I bought my car and my desire to buy new, I was stuck with getting an auto/DCT. But since I got stuck with an auto, I would have preferred to have the previous ZF over this DCT any day.

+1 with my 335i. Apart from I don't want to keep changing/adding things to get rid of this throttle lag. Very annoying. I recently pulled out of a junction and had zero throttle, accelerator to the floor and I was creeping forwards. All of a sudden it woke up and lurched forwards. Now that's the worst I've had it, but even the little occurrences at roundabouts etc sure doesn't create a great driving experience.

[swifty]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

"BMW has never even designed *any* DCT type transmission" because they buy them off the shelf from Getrag.

Well Porsche works with ZF on their PDK. It's not completely designed by Porsche.

But Ferrari uses Getrag like BMW on their turbo cars and are capable of handling the torque. Though the average Ferrari isn't going to put as many miles as the avg m3.

I can't imagine going to a regular auto after getting used to the DCT.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by StealthFish

Just wondering here, have you tried to set the DCT into a higher or more bars shifting mode? That could just be your case and that the DCT is in all out comfort mode so it shift much slower, slowing down the clutch engagement of the transmission as well. That could be why you're not moving as fast or you have that lag? Does the 1 series have DCT that can be controlled like the M models? Never been in a 1 series. Does all DCT have that mode no matter what series it goes into?

That could be your simplest solution and you just have to set the mode higher to have your fix. It is because I did not see once that you spoke about changing the modes nor anyone else.

About the ZF-8, my wife has the 435i GC with that transmission. It is smooth and quick so I like that transmission. I think it is just because I know that the DCT is unique to the M or a higher model car, I would love to keep it still. I am 50/50 and if it goes to the ZF-8, I would welcome it. The new M5 is stated to have the ZF-8 in replacement of the DCT, so why not?

There are no fine tune adjustments to the DCT. There are two options (actually three options you can employ) in different combinations. There is the Sport button and the moving the transmission shifter to the left to engage sport shifting. The third option is manual mode. In stop and go traffic, I sometimes activate the sport button and move the shifter to the left to try to minimize the throttle lag. But the engagement is abrupt and it's tiresome to deal with a touching pedal and the car just wanting to fly forward like a scalded cat. My commute in the DC area has me dealing with stop and go traffic for sometime 10 to 20 miles at a time. This gets old real quick when you have to deal with a touchy throttle and having to jam on the brakes because the car got too jump happy.

But with the lurching and jumping of the car, this is different than what I'm describing above. What's happening is when the A/C is engaged, the idle is unstable. Coming to a near stop with my foot on the brake, the idle will fall to 500 RPMs or just below then all of a sudden surge up just above 1k. I've notice this happens when the trans is in 2nd gear. When the computer realizes the idle is too low, the idle surges up but at the same time, the trans shifts to 1st. When this shift happens, you feel a clunk and the car jumps forward with the idle surge. I think when this happens, the computer isn't disengaging the clutch so the car and feels like dumping the clutch. I have to wonder if this repeated behavior is causing extra wear on the clutch packs.

And to add to the excitement of the car jumping forward, you feel less braking power because the system vacuum drops significantly when the RPMs dip to 500 causing a residual affect on the brake booster. Fun times.

[StealthFish]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I had a DCT on my 2011 335is. Great car by the way...It didn't have the same setup (customization) that we have on the F80/82s. I'm assuming it's the same way on the OPs 1 series.

Not to get off topic but the exhaust sound was awesome in that car. Better then our lawnmowers.

I actually like the sound of our F8x series M. Not saying that it can't be better.

Originally Posted by ginginha

Yep, I had that same "dead pedal" problem with my 135 and it was quite dangerous...My F80 doesn't seem to exhibit this behavior, but it holds second gear almost to a complete stop. I'm not sure if it was designed this way to overcome the aforementioned problem, but I've often wondered about it.

Then I would agree that the M platform definitely has more control over the shifting and clutch engagement. Now I see why the 1 series have that issue.

Glad...I got the M and I am sorry for you 1 series peeps that had that issue. I hope they fixed that in the 2 series, if they come with the DCT.

[dex37]

Don't be fooled by the marketing blabla. The only reason why they are killing DCT and Manual is money.

[bmrwrld]

Excellent! that's going to make my Manuel 2015 M4 highly sought after.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Ric in RVA

If you haven't driven a ZF 8 speed it really is amazing. One of the only auto transmissions I have ever driven that remotely comes close to being acceptable.

The shift quality is amazing, the down shifts even more so.

BMW uses a ZF locked into shiftable manual mode on some of its race cars.

The biggest reason manual will go away? Auto braking.

If the feds mandate auto braking there is no way to down shift a true manual to keep the car capable of operating in an auto braking mode. (without getting into some SMG bs)

And of all the self driving car things coming auto braking will be one of the first to be implemented as it has huge potential for safety.

Please note I don't agree with where it is going and will always choose a manual over an auto, but it is going this way.

So get em while you can!!!

I have and the ZF8 is great but still not as fast as the DCT. Hopefully they can close that gap soon.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by StealthFish

I actually like the sound of our F8x series M. Not saying that it can't be better.



Then I would agree that the M platform definitely has more control over the shifting and clutch engagement. Now I see why the 1 series have that issue.

Glad...I got the M and I am sorry for you 1 series peeps that had that issue. I hope they fixed that in the 2 series, if they come with the DCT.

Yeah. They fixed it in the 2 series by offering a ZF instead of the DCT

[KGB_123_99]

What I find interesting is that despite the fact that BMW is trying to cater to a wider market by expanding its lineup to 1990s GM proportions, they are alienating the enthusiast driver more and more. Something to think about.

[Hymiet]

Originally Posted by Jklad

Maybe he means automatics are better and more reliable for the customers to drive so that we (Bmw)don't have to pay for driver error issues that result in transmission/clutch warranty repairs for Bmws that put out more than 450 hp and high torque. Follow the moneys.

I'll stop buying Bmw when manuals go away. At that point might as well go EV

I think you are dead on here.

[Hymiet]

Originally Posted by VCP

I'm going to puke

We can hold hands and puke together.