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      04-15-2021, 03:58 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H20neun View Post
in the linked blog post they recommend to remove this part:

what is that part initially good for and did anyone remove this as well?
I ended up keeping that diverter flap part because I couldn't find any definitive information online as to what specifically it does and how it might impact air flowing through radiators and intercoolers. I did find lots of opinions though.

That said, just inward from that little diverter flap (looking from the inside of the fenderwell), there is a channel that slopes up. I am unsure what airflow this channel manages but it is oriented in the direction of the brakes. Would love to find some definitive guidance on the aerodynamics of those two features to know for sure.
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      04-15-2021, 04:31 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post


EDIT: I always heard the dust shields also work as heat shields to protect suspension components. Did you ever notice any accelerated wear?
No, never had this issue on any other car. However, if I didn't have enough cool down time on track I would drive around a bit in the paddock or track access roads since the risk is more about heat soak while sitting really hot. Depending on where you run and at what time of year, you could wrap your most proximate suspension junctions in heat reflecting material and secure it with stainless wire. Just keep an eye on it.
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      04-16-2021, 04:18 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel911 View Post
I ended up keeping that diverter flap part because I couldn't find any definitive information online as to what specifically it does and how it might impact air flowing through radiators and intercoolers. I did find lots of opinions though.

That said, just inward from that little diverter flap (looking from the inside of the fenderwell), there is a channel that slopes up. I am unsure what airflow this channel manages but it is oriented in the direction of the brakes. Would love to find some definitive guidance on the aerodynamics of those two features to know for sure.
I kept mine so far as well, I just test fitted the porsche gt3 blades which (hopefully) utilize the channel you mentioned and direct more air towards the brake disc.

I know it is not new but I have seen several people fitting those blades in different areas, first I test fitted it on the lower wishbone because the blades seems to scoop more air up because it sits lower but the wishbone is more or less 90° to the brake disc and I am not sure if it directs air to or away from the brake disc.

fitting it to the tension strut makes the blade sit higher, there is only a small part of it peeking out under the car but with the little channel it might help direct air towards the center of the brake disc, especially with the dust shield removed, another benefit is that there is very little cutting needed and one of the original clips can be used to keep it safe and in place

did not test if it is working or not but I will post an update if I got some experience
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      04-16-2021, 06:26 AM   #136
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I eneded with Team Schirmer cooling , it needed some adjustments in the shield, but it fits even with 265 front.

First video - fitment of the shield after adjustments.
Second video - fitment in full steering angle with 265 tires front.



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      04-16-2021, 02:53 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vojta89 View Post
I eneded with Team Schirmer cooling , it needed some adjustments in the shield, but it fits even with 265 front.

First video - fitment of the shield after adjustments.
Second video - fitment in full steering angle with 265 tires front.



looks good, did it need adjustments because of the aftermarket brake disc?

what brake disc and pad combo are you running and is it working good?
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      04-18-2021, 02:26 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H20neun View Post
I kept mine so far as well, I just test fitted the porsche gt3 blades which (hopefully) utilize the channel you mentioned and direct more air towards the brake disc.
I did something similar for the rear with a 3D printed scoop part and it worked well according to my temp strip data. Annecdotally pad wear also seems to be decreased.

My Focus RS MK3 also came with something like this that redirected air that came in through a cooling duct in the front bumper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vojta89 View Post
I eneded with Team Schirmer cooling , it needed some adjustments in the shield, but it fits even with 265 front.

First video - fitment of the shield after adjustments.
Second video - fitment in full steering angle with 265 tires front.

EDIT: NVM I need to learn to read... Do you not crunch the hose each time you steer?

Now that I have done 1.1 days with the front APs and ducts I can say that I have maybe too much cooling. If I back off for a lap or 2 the brakes get noticably cold and less grabby.
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      04-20-2021, 01:49 AM   #139
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looks good, did it need adjustments because of the aftermarket brake disc?

what brake disc and pad combo are you running and is it working good?
It needed adjustments because of smaller inner size of rotors than with AP racing brake kit (had to cut away 8-9 mm around). This cooling was made for AP racing brake kit.

These are Giro Discs and I'm very happy with it, before I had OEM rotors and also tried Racingbrake.com rotors and wasnt happy with them (wasnt much big difference than OEM rotors with cryo treatment).

Brake pads I use are Endless ME22 and I'm super happy with this combo ME22 and GiroDisc rotors I've done two whole day driving on this combo on one of the hardest tracks for brakes around and you can hardly see and problems with rotors. I was there even before I had instaled this cooling system. With stock rotors after cryo treatment or racingbrake rotors I was able to do about 3 days at this track and rotors were done, most times they had cracks from the outer edge. On Nordschleife it was okay even with Racing brake or OEM rotors with cryo treatment, because Nordschleife is not that hard for brakes (you have enough space to cool brakes from hard braking to hard braking), but this will be better combo for sure
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      04-20-2021, 01:53 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post

EDIT: NVM I need to learn to read... Do you not crunch the hose each time you steer?

Now that I have done 1.1 days with the front APs and ducts I can say that I have maybe too much cooling. If I back off for a lap or 2 the brakes get noticably cold and less grabby.
Better cool than overheated, or am I wrong?
They dont rub as you can see in the second video. It would be perfect to make fixed tubing around the wheel and than connect flexi hose, but it is what it is
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      04-22-2021, 10:22 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I did something similar for the rear with a 3D printed scoop part and it worked well according to my temp strip data. Annecdotally pad wear also seems to be decreased.

My Focus RS MK3 also came with something like this that redirected air that came in through a cooling duct in the front bumper.




EDIT: NVM I need to learn to read... Do you not crunch the hose each time you steer?

Now that I have done 1.1 days with the front APs and ducts I can say that I have maybe too much cooling. If I back off for a lap or 2 the brakes get noticably cold and less grabby.
I haven’t needed ducting with the AP’s. I run DS3.12s and left my Porsche scoops on and they’ve been great even in middle of summer in 30-45min hard driving sessions with slicks.

If you don’t want to pull the ducting off, can you tape over the inlets on cool days?
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      04-22-2021, 10:25 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vojta89 View Post
Better cool than overheated, or am I wrong?
They dont rub as you can see in the second video. It would be perfect to make fixed tubing around the wheel and than connect flexi hose, but it is what it is
Overcooling cracks discs/rings and doesn’t give you bite when you expect it. Can be just as bad of a situation as overheating.
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      04-22-2021, 12:54 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Overcooling cracks discs/rings and doesn’t give you bite when you expect it. Can be just as bad of a situation as overheating.
On both my previous M3's & EVO X I ran a ducted setup. On the tighter tracks I had the NACA Ducts fully open.

On a fast track like LRP I had the ducts completely closed.

Depending on your braking skills, type of track and pad compounds, you may need keep an eye on pedal feel, then play around with how much the ducts should be covered, etc.

For me the ducting was to extend the life of my front pads. Which it did by about 25-35%. The pads I was using at the time had a narrower heat range to work...
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      04-22-2021, 08:37 PM   #144
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For what it's worth, my crappy home engineered brake ducts seem to have worked well in my experience.

Aside from the dark green front callipers and occasional smoke from my brakes, I had multiple occasions where my pads cracked prior to the install of my brake ducts. One time it was with fairly new PFC08s with perhaps two days on them. Since installing the ducts, I have not experienced this issue.

I'm sure my my brake ducts are not all that efficient so I run them open at every track (including LRP, which I tend to agree is fast, but also busy without a lot of straights) without issue.
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      04-27-2021, 12:42 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
I haven’t needed ducting with the AP’s. I run DS3.12s and left my Porsche scoops on and they’ve been great even in middle of summer in 30-45min hard driving sessions with slicks.

If you don’t want to pull the ducting off, can you tape over the inlets on cool days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Overcooling cracks discs/rings and doesn’t give you bite when you expect it. Can be just as bad of a situation as overheating.
Bingo, and yes ductape over the scoops is enough to block em off.

Went to the track Sunday and they performed amazingly I think the cooling still adds value as in my mind cooler brakes are longer lasting brakes.

Looking at some data I finally got it seems I still need to stomp on them harder and more determinedly

@daap1193 on here did some coding magic on my brakes and now they are amazingly linear + repeatable corner after corner. They require a bit more effort than I want but we are sorting that out.

ZM2 how do the suspension bushings fare on full slicks? I am tempted to try some...
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      04-27-2021, 04:57 PM   #146
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I recently read somebody who had put in ducts having problems with taking in tire worms, ending up burning in the center area of the rotor - anybody else have this issue? Thinking it would make a screen a good idea on any ducting.
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      05-26-2021, 10:13 AM   #147
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Let me share something I learnt which can be beneficial to this community.

The link below explains in details about brake cooling so can be very helpful before you decide to install them in your car.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...n-my-track-car

If you read the article most likely realized that a lot of brake cooling solutions we see around are not technical correct or dont provide the expected benefits. But even if your cooling is design correctly and air is channel to the eye of the disc there is still the change it wont generate the benefits you expect because there isnt much air flow and this is what I would like to share after very experiments I did.

Initially when I started to look into brake cooling could not find an affordable solution but fortunately some nice people on the forum start posting their solutions so I found one that made sense for me. I installed into my car and for a moment was happy that I had a brake cooling solution. After few track days I didnt notice any substantial difference in brake temperature (paint rotor / caliper temperature stickers) but decided to keep as have already spent the money.

[IMG][/IMG]

Later on I continued to be frustrated by the braking performance specially how fast the pads wear due high temperature so I decided to see how effective the ducts are so I found on Amazon an air flow meter. It measures speed and flow so I decided first to check its accuracy just by driving around and comparing speed on vehicle vs device. It is pretty close. Now for the flow you just add the area and it will show CFM.

I measured the flow in front of the duct (before it gets captured by it) and after it passes the duct just next the rotor. For my surprise the flow dropped by 67% yes this is correct only 1/3 of the flow gets into the rotors. It means a circuit which average speed is 80mph the air speed on the ducts at the rotor eye would be only 26 mph what isnt much air flow. I agree is something but it wont be noticeable most likely.

What is the solution? Increase air speed or area. To increase area and make some difference needs to go with 4" hose which is a challenge because packaging. To increase air speed need to eliminate any 90 degree bent. The only solution I see like that would be maybe the GT4 bumper inlet but I know its size it kind small based on pictures I have seem. Actually on GT4 they have 2 hoses. The second captures air underneath. Maybe that is the reason GT4 has 2 hoses instead of just one.

Other alternative which is actually free is to remove the dust shield which allows open space for the rotor to capture air as it eliminates the restriction. I would just suggest adding a shield for the rubber boot which is close to the rotor.

I am testing a fan solution next week for the rear which has the benefit of constant flow. You can find a nice one on Amazon for $60 which supply air at 50mph (double than the duct solution). Will let you know the results.
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      05-26-2021, 12:12 PM   #148
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If you're curious how the M2CS Racing routes brake cooling up front, this diagram will help.



The two lighter grey items are what grab the air from the front bumper with the small duct (the one you see on as a visible addition on the CS R) feeding ducting that cools the backside of the caliper/pads. Interestingly enough, the only time I've seen one of these cars in person, the lower bumper ducts that move air to the center of the disc, were blocked off.
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      08-03-2021, 09:12 AM   #149
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anyone think of trying to use the Verus Engineering Brake Cooling Kit for the Mk5 Toyota Supra on a M2C?

looks like the carbon duct will bolt up to the M2C duct in the wheel housing, i measured the supra to be 55mm width and 88 mm height.
Need to confirm M2C duct outlet size, but if it works this will clear the wheel on full lock.





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      08-03-2021, 10:18 AM   #150
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If I felt I needed to run ducting on my M2C I would use a backing plate solution.

With my Essex AP Racing kit I have not needed to run any cooling kit.

It is the most efficient way to force cool air onto the entire rotor surface.

This is one example:

https://www.hackengineering.co.uk/pr...es-e36-inc-m3/

There are a few ways to get the ducting from the front of the car and then routing it to the backing plates.

I ran this type of solution on 3 of my former track prepped rides.
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      08-05-2021, 04:00 AM   #151
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Quote:
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anyone think of trying to use the Verus Engineering Brake Cooling Kit for the Mk5 Toyota Supra on a M2C?

looks like the carbon duct will bolt up to the M2C duct in the wheel housing, i measured the supra to be 55mm width and 88 mm height.
Need to confirm M2C duct outlet size, but if it works this will clear the wheel on full lock.
This looks so good, anyone tried already?
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      08-05-2021, 04:59 AM   #152
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Here are some pics. My shop (RRT outside of D.C.) made some modifications to the GT3 brake spoilers and my backing plates. Testing it out at Watkins Glen this weekend.
Planning to do this also. Looks like the most cost effective and quick upgrade we can start with.

Some people remove the dust shields completely but I'm not fully confident that the heat coming from the brakes wouldn't affect suspension and rubber bushings. Using aluminum foil to protect the rubber bushings might help with that but you'll still end up with high temps for the struts + brake dust.

Aftermarket cooling kits are also available but they run for ~$500 so might be the next step if the GT3 ducts won't be enough

If anyone wants to go a step further the M2CS Racing has OEM ducts coming out of the front bumper.
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      08-05-2021, 06:54 AM   #153
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Planning to do this also. Looks like the most cost effective and quick upgrade we can start with.

Some people remove the dust shields completely but I'm not fully confident that the heat coming from the brakes wouldn't affect suspension and rubber bushings. Using aluminum foil to protect the rubber bushings might help with that but you'll still end up with high temps for the struts + brake dust.

Aftermarket cooling kits are also available but they run for ~$500 so might be the next step if the GT3 ducts won't be enough

If anyone wants to go a step further the M2CS Racing has OEM ducts coming out of the front bumper.
It is possible to remove heat shield completely w/o damages to the suspension component.In order to do that there is one tie rod which needs to be protected from the heat as it sits very close to the brake disc. Good news you can buy aluminium sheet and cut a small aluminium plate 4"x4" and bolt it to hub using the same screw used to hold the heat shield. I can post a picture later as my car is not a home now.
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      08-05-2021, 12:56 PM   #154
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synkro View Post
Planning to do this also. Looks like the most cost effective and quick upgrade we can start with.

Some people remove the dust shields completely but I'm not fully confident that the heat coming from the brakes wouldn't affect suspension and rubber bushings. Using aluminum foil to protect the rubber bushings might help with that but you'll still end up with high temps for the struts + brake dust.

Aftermarket cooling kits are also available but they run for ~$500 so might be the next step if the GT3 ducts won't be enough

If anyone wants to go a step further the M2CS Racing has OEM ducts coming out of the front bumper.
It is possible to remove heat shield completely w/o damages to the suspension component.In order to do that there is one tie rod which needs to be protected from the heat as it sits very close to the brake disc. Good news you can buy aluminium sheet and cut a small aluminium plate 4"x4" and bolt it to hub using the same screw used to hold the heat shield. I can post a picture later as my car is not a home now.
I'd appreciate a picture. I'm thinking that brake dust and heat might affect the strut and other components that are meant to be protected by this shield. Am I wrong on this?
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